Curse

NinjaKai · Aug 19, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

No. They sacrificed people to achieve their goals. That makes them non-good - or evil.

Nothing much to discuss, whatever their reasons or goals, since goals never justify the means, their goals are irrelevant.

I think your ignoring the different perspectives here. By the Mursaat view point they we're preventing a prophecy from coming to pass that could doom Tyria if the Ascended chosen failed. They viewed it as a big risk. So they sacrificed the chosen to keep the Door of Komali and the titans sealed.

From your view they are evil and you are good. From their view they are doing what they consider to be best for Tyria. And you are trying to interfere. If I could I would have sided with the mutsaat. ;P

DarthLasing · Aug 19, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Did you add the "well" just to make it to 7 words?

I can be very, very brief on the issue

No. They sacrificed people to achieve their goals. That makes them non-good - or evil.

Nothing much to discuss, whatever their reasons or goals, since goals never justify the means, their goals are irrelevant.

Just becaused they sacrificed people doesn't mean there not good, every people, every race has a different point of view on what good and bad is. The nazi's and hitler killed jews because they thought they we're a "plague", but at there point of view, they are good, and others opposed them. Like the aztecs, sacrificing there own people to the gods as offering, they did it so the gods would like there people, why? They didn't want to die and have the gods destroy them and send them plagues, drouts, or storms. They would consider that smart, others would consider that ignorant and oppose that. So just because they did what they had to do doesn't mean there evil.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

From your view they are evil and you are good. From their view they are doing what they consider to be best for Tyria. And you are trying to interfere. If I could I would have sided with the mutsaat. ;P

I agree

Amy Awien · Aug 19, 2006, 06:04 PM // 18:04

I have heard nobody considering the perspective, or the point of view of the sacrificed Chosen.

Edit Btw:

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaKai

... and you are good.

No, I like to believe that I am Good, but I know that I am not. But that is not the issue here.

some guy · Aug 22, 2006, 02:30 AM // 02:30

In my opinion they are just trying to survive, they know some day the Titans will be released and they will die, so they are doing every thing they can to prevent that.

DarthLasing · Sep 06, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I have heard nobody considering the perspective, or the point of view of the sacrificed Chosen.

Edit Btw:

No, I like to believe that I am Good, but I know that I am not. But that is not the issue here.

As I said, everyone has a different point of view, some people think there evil, some don't.

The Cheerful · Sep 08, 2006, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Given the choice, I would have joined the Mursaat. Seem like nice enough fellows to me. But of course, the stupid Mantle attack you before they even ask if you care about the chosen being killed.

Amy Awien · Sep 08, 2006, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthLasing

As I said, everyone has a different point of view, some people think there evil, some don't.

I suppose it's easier not to consider the point of view of the sacrificed chosen.

frojack · Sep 08, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

You make an interesting case, but you have to remember that they didn't just sacrifice anyone. They chose certain individuals. This supports the theory that they were trying to prevent a greater 'evil' from occuring.

As with every good story, no one is either completely evil, or completely good. From Star Wars to Gone with the Wind...

NinjaKai · Sep 08, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

No, I like to believe that I am Good, but I know that I am not. But that is not the issue here.

Thats called splitting hairs.

Eldin · Sep 08, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

The Seers and Mursaat are neither good nor evil. They are simply fighting with one another, and wish to prevent the prophecy which fortells their doom. The same goes for the Mantle, who are even less evil than the Mursaat - they're just the Mursaat's lackeys.

"Ooo...kill that Chosen or I will melt you! Ooo! Beware my power!"
-Mursaat

Blazing · Sep 09, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

still laughing of your theory

but its actually the one i believe the most acurate.

My conspiracy is: They are all just Pupets in the hands of Glint & that makes them fight against one another while she its popcorns while watching heroes trying to solve the mistery.

But thats just my opinion

Mezmo · Sep 09, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Good and evil can all be seen as a matter of perspective.

The mursatts probably thought themselves to be very good since they were the ones guarding the door holding the titans at bay.

People that got killed by them probably didn't think to highly of them.

And the Charr thought of everything but themselves and the titans as evil so yeah, i think they thought the mursatt were evil.

Druids i don't think really cared so long as thier forest weren't destroyed.

Ascalon probably doesn't care since they are already on the brink of destruction from the charr.

The stone summit hate everyone but themselves.

Anyone else wants to add some races go ahead.

Markaedw · Sep 09, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazing

still laughing of your theory

but its actually the one i believe the most acurate.

My conspiracy is: They are all just Pupets in the hands of Glint & that makes them fight against one another while she its popcorns while watching heroes trying to solve the mistery.

But thats just my opinion

Well If you're an imortal dragon, you got to get you jolly somehow. Hanging out in a grain of sand can get boring fast.

Phrozenflame · Sep 09, 2006, 07:34 AM // 07:34

Good or bad is a point of view my young padawans

lapsus · Sep 10, 2006, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Ah a true star wars fan not you are, there is no good or evil only the force there is

Numa Pompilius · Sep 10, 2006, 11:53 AM // 11:53

The lich comes pretty close to textbook evil, though: insanely egotistical.

(Also pretty dumb and careless, and probably an unwitting pawn of Glint, but that's besides the point.)

Amy Awien · Sep 10, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lapsus

Ah a true star wars fan not you are, there is no good or evil only the force there is

Fear leads to anger and anger leads to the dark-side. The mursaat's fear of the Prophecies led them to to the darkside

Chris A · Sep 11, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Lordhelmos=brilliance FTW.... in cunjuction with this i kinda posted a little while to day on another site about this and the ch. 3 suposidly tying everything up. heres that post PS ALSO MAJOR SPOILERS. keep in mind im new to posting but i've read about everything on this subject and came up with how plot line might come to end. This whole concept of "who, what and why" really grabbed my attention when i started doing Fow and UW about a year ago. Since then i've been combing forums all over for answers and have found many interesting ideas that all go very neatly together. I will attempt to put everything I've heard from various forums into one neat plotline. I in no way claim the orriginal ideas for myself but mearly just putting the bits and peices together in a logical way. I am in no way god nor do i say my word is law is all pure speculation, all beit very good speculation. Having said that i will say this, This will be long so i apologize in advance, and WILL ALSO CONTAIN SPOILERS. also if the moderator feels this better fits somewhere ealse, plz move it to where it may be more usefull.

Now it all starts about 200 years ago(my timing maybe wrong but bare with me as i state a few guesses here). At this time Dhum and/or Menzies are thrown out of the circle of the gods. Being all po'ed by this the intend to destory wat the gods made. Thus they cause the Titains to ravage the world. This is when the world turns to King Doric. He seeks help from the gods and is giving the sceptor of orr to subdue the titains and lock them behind the door of kamolie.

Around this time Dhum and/or Menzies seeks to use the humans against the other gods in cantha. Dhumn/or Menzies impersonates the fourtune teller and tells Shiro of a vast conspiricy to kill him. As this forth telling start to come to pass Shiro is left with one option, kill the emperor. When is himself is slain his death wail turns the whole....blah blah blah you now this part. But, what you didnt see was Dhum/Menzies comes to Shiro and offers him revenge. They inted for him to use the affliction 200 yrs later to destoy cantha.

2yrs Before present day. Dhumn/Menzies turn back to Tyria. They give the charr the power to to sear ascalon and destory the world. After Alberden and Rurik mustered a defense against the beasts and kryta used the white mantle/Mursaat to destory the charr there, Dhumn/Menzies decieded to use the Vizor in Orr. When the Vizor seeks their counsel, they give him the power to kill the charr, and all of Orr, and settle a grudge with the old gods by destorying their prized city. Then Dhumn/Menzies ressurects the Vizor and gives him a similar offer they gave Shiro, and the Lich is born.

Present day, we'll hope back to cantha. Shiro uses the power he was given and trained with and raises an army of afflicted. However a double cross is made. Shiro Finds a way to become human. When Dhumn/Menzies realize this they send the 'envoys' to res you at viznuah sqaure. You then end up doing Dhumn's/Menzies's dirty work by defeating Shiro.

Well that was a short plot but thats a different debate.Now to Tyria

About half way through the story line in proph.(after the searing now) The White mantle find the sceptor of orr they only thing that can control the titans(why is under vast speculation wether the Murssaat wanted more control over the titans in case the door failed or if the mantle found out that the Lich was Looking for it, which he was). So the Lich now knows the local of the sceptor, but he cant get to it. He uses the army Dhumn/Menzies provided him with and forces the sceptor out of human control. In the Sanctum Kay mission you give him said sceptor, he is then very happy now. Now he uses the flameseeker prophcies against you to find the only way to the fire island and the door. The rest is history, hes gets control of titains and attempts to destory humanity, But you stop him and the titains.

Also to clear up any Mursaat/ Searer relations. Way back when King dorick asked the gods for help, the Mursaat(maybe from elona judging by the wings?)ally with the humans and seeks to destroy the Titains(yes i just said the Mursaat were once the good guys).The Searers i deem by their appareance are closly related to Menzies shadow army(ps they too maybe from elona due to the wings).Just so you know I'm getting the wing=elona idea from the GW Preveiw video where a monster had very white wings. Now the Searers give you a way to protect yourself against the mursaat. Why? Cause the Lich needed you to kill them and find the way to the fire island and the Searers had that means to help you. That clears up the reason why the mursaat knew of the Door and tried to keep it close.

Now the conclusion of the matter. Dhumn/Menzies are battling the 5 Main gods. Both sides used Humans to thier advantage. The Mursaat helped Humans even though they hated the old gods because of the titain threat. the Searers were Like the High Preists of Menzies Shadow army. The titains were too apart of this army. This leaves humans in the middle. I frankly wont coment on what the hell Glint had with anything, she can go either way IMO. Therefore, in NF there will be an all out war as Dhumn/Menzies get really tired of losing all the time and just go all out war in Elona(since mostly the gods will have thier gaze in the dessert, tyria, and cantha) in a surprise move. I expect the Mursaat and possibly the Searers in NF along with Shiro(the ghostly hero anyone?) possibly trying to make things right. Also i expect the 'envoys' here too, we may find out that thier the generals of Menzies and that they act as the four hoursemen of the apocalypse(much like Dhumn Hoursmen in UW).

Anywho just my take/guessing/putting the bits and peices together. This may all very well be just my rambling on, but hey this is my take on it. Now take it as you will.

ps. ill lmao if i get on tonight and find out my accounts been banned for blabing the whole story line of ch. 3 ;P.

also if i have any gaps here refer to Lordhelmos for the fillers.

Mark Nevermiss · Sep 11, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

What I would have liked to see is multiple endings of both campaigns Prophecies and Factions based on your choices. It would be cool if you could end up assissting Shiro if you wanted, for example, ditto for the mursaat.

Ethiops · Sep 15, 2006, 08:35 PM // 20:35

I dont think that the Mursaat were evil overall. They had good intentions (stopping the release of the Titans...which were evil) But just had a bad way of doing it. Humans werent so different, they've killed billions of other species for the preservation of their own, which is all the Mursaat are doing. If anything humans are eviler than the Mursaat, because the Mursaat are actually protecting all of Tyria, including the humans and such. Wouldn't you kill a man, if it was to save the lives of billions?

That and self preservation, which all organisms do, including humans.