Curse

Machinae · Aug 30, 2007, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

"lies. If you need a mod to tell you something. then it gives you an advantage. or else why are you making it?"

Good players dont need it, bad players can use it to get better faster.

Wtf, can you tell me how a different skin to a few weapons or shields gives you any kind of advantage over other people using the normal ones?

As for the health bars, it's easy enough to drag an inventory bag icon or something over to where 50% is if you want to work it out (which people have been doing since long before people started to mod the .dat file).

nazra7 · Aug 30, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

But... it still makes bad players better, thus givin an advantage, and thus cheating. My point proven. and I'm not talking about just this mod I'm talking about any mod that changes anything to help you keep better track or help you realize something better or help you do anything better. If it needs to be changed period it's a cheat.

As for the skins all I have to say is cheat. And do you know why? becuase you have to change it to make it look that way thus cheating.

RoF · Aug 30, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

First of all I would like to congradulate you on this great project which you obviously put a lot of effort into to help the community. However, that being said...

I have to agree with nazra and others.

If you want to change the appearance of the textures on your client side, fine. Although even allowing this is a slippery slope. What if I decide to change the animations so that every time a mesmer casts diversion a large red alarm appears over his head? I trust however that you just changed the item appearances to give people cooler gear.

But making a mod that gives you more information than other players IS CHEATING. No matter how small of an advantage it is, it is still cheating. Heck, I'd even say that idea to show the fog of war for cartographers could be considered cheating. (Think of how much easier it is to achieve the title if you can see the areas you missed). This really wouldnt be fair to those who achieved it legitimately, it devalues their achievement. Now I personally don't really care about that title as I pretty much only pvp but this is just an example.

Now the <50% health mod won't make a scrub monk godly or anything. (In pvp you often end up hitting zb just before they drop < 50 anyways so that by the time it is actually cast they are under.) But that's not the point, the point is you're giving yourself more information than the other players which is cheating.

And the fact that everyone has access to it does not make it ok. Not everyone reads these forums (way < 1% of playerbase). And even if informed ANETs clear policy against downloading 3rd party programs should be enough to deter people from considering this.

While I appreciate the effort you put into the creation of your project, I don't condone the use of it. You're giving players an advantage (no matter how small you think it is). And that is cheating.

EDIT:
Wow, I just reread it and discovered that you actually changed some of the skill appearances (frenzy, rush, some of glyphs). And you increased the range of THE RADAR, that gives an unfair advantage in hero battles. e.g: on the desert map on bombardment you hold the siege and central shrine and you're fighting 3v3 at his health shrine with each having 1 at your siege shrine. he might pull his hero of the siege and go take the central, but you cant see his hero until its about halfway or so. (In which case you'd want to pull your splitter to central as well). Being able to see further on the radar gives a huge advantage here. This is not cool.
/EDIT

Machinae · Aug 30, 2007, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

But making a mod that gives you more information than other players IS CHEATING. No matter how small of an advantage it is, it is still cheating. Heck, I'd even say that idea to show the fog of war for cartographers could be considered cheating. (Think of how much easier it is to achieve the title if you can see the areas you missed).

You're right. I assume you're all for banning everyone that did the alt-tab thing with a fully revealed map too, yeah? People have been doing this for years. It's not just the recent wave of texture mods.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

This really wouldnt be fair to those who achieved it legitimately, it devalues their achievement. Now I personally don't really care about that title as I pretty much only pvp but this is just an example.

If your PvP experience is based on Hero battles you can't have a very varied basis for your comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

Now the <50% health mod won't make a scrub monk godly or anything. (In pvp you often end up hitting zb just before they drop < 50 anyways so that by the time it is actually cast they are under.) But that's not the point, the point is you're giving yourself more information than the other players which is cheating.

How many times do I have to say this? This. Isn't. The. First. Time. People. Have. Used. Things. To. Mark. The. 50% Mark. On. Their. Bars. It's easy enough to do in-game, with only the basic UI, so there's nothing given by this mod that you can't do yourself. Are you saying that it's unfair that they know more than you? That's life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

And the fact that everyone has access to it does not make it ok. Not everyone reads these forums (way < 1% of playerbase)

No. Just because they don't know about it doesn't mean they don't have access to it. Oh and btw, using the recent figure of 4million sales, 1% is 40,000. At the time of posting this, Guru forums has... 141,306 registered members. You do the math.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

While I appreciate the effort you put into the creation of your project, I don't condone the use of it. You're giving players an advantage (no matter how small you think it is). And that is cheating.

So I guess that using Vent or TS is cheating too, yeah? Of course, everyone has access to these, but that's not the point, is it?! I fail to see how giving people new skins or different animations could help at all. The only thing anywhere near this is knowing when you've hit a critical hit, and even then it's a pretty small advantage since Assassins have been able to tell since the release of Factions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

And you increased the range of THE RADAR, that gives an unfair advantage in hero battles

No, No, No. If you'd actually tried anything like this, you'd know that if you expanded the radar on your UI it would have the same effect. Stop posting about things you have no idea over.

NITEVIPER · Aug 31, 2007, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I totly agree.. After all the Anet interview on WIKI shows that ANet agree to the use of TEXMOD provided it doesnt give 1 player an advantage over another at that would be cheating and a breach of the rules.

So the 50% - 80% marker on the HP bar is classed by you as cheating. Would some Tape or a marker pen on a monitor also mean its cheating?

Making the UI darker or lighter is cheating because .....please dont tell me its because you can read it better?
"oh no, he can see the text better than me" .... pmsl

before people stand up and shout about things they know nothing about, i really suggest you listen to yourself first as all your doing is making us laugh..

But

If you was to add something like:
All resurrect skill, signet animation's <change to> level up animation
This would clearly breach the rules as it DOES give a player an advantage over others.

THINK B4 YOU SPEAK !

RoF · Sep 01, 2007, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinae

You're right. I assume you're all for banning everyone that did the alt-tab thing with a fully revealed map too, yeah? People have been doing this for years. It's not just the recent wave of texture mods.

Find in my post where I said anything about banning anyone.. wait, I didnt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinae

If your PvP experience is based on Hero battles you can't have a very varied basis for your comments.

I used hero battles as an example of where expanding the radar would create an unfair advantage, I didnt say it was my only pvp experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinae

How many times do I have to say this? This. Isn't. The. First. Time. People. Have. Used. Things. To. Mark. The. 50% Mark. On. Their. Bars. It's easy enough to do in-game, with only the basic UI, so there's nothing given by this mod that you can't do yourself. Are you saying that it's unfair that they know more than you? That's life.

Yes but these people are using methods available to everyone who plays the game. Altering the client creates an advantage. Otherwise, why would you do it? And no, this isn't life (for most of us), it's a game. And inside the game, the designers can choose to enforce fair play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Machinae

No. Just because they don't know about it doesn't mean they don't have access to it. Oh and btw, using the recent figure of 4million sales, 1% is 40,000. At the time of posting this, Guru forums has... 141,306 registered members. You do the math.

You got me there. though I doubt all those people are active.

Quote:

So I guess that using Vent or TS is cheating too, yeah? Of course, everyone has access to these, but that's not the point, is it?! I fail to see how giving people new skins or different animations could help at all. The only thing anywhere near this is knowing when you've hit a critical hit, and even then it's a pretty small advantage since Assassins have been able to tell since the release of Factions.

Using vent and TS is completely different than using a modified client. Do players using TS / vent have an advantage over players who arnt? Yes. But it is irrelevant because the game client has not been modified and the information provided by the IDENTICAL CLIENTS is the same for all players.

Quote:

No, No, No. If you'd actually tried anything like this, you'd know that if you expanded the radar on your UI it would have the same effect. Stop posting about things you have no idea over.

Resizing the radar doesnt expand it, it just makes it bigger... he's actually talking about increasing the range.. not the size. Why would he make a mod to expand the radar range if you could do it with the UI? that would be stupid. He explicitly states that his mod allows the user to see slightly further. (read quote below).

Obviously you disagree with me, and its ok. We can agree to disagree. But please don't make personal attacks or say I said things I didnt say. I didn't say people who use this should be banned or whatever. I'm not a membe of ANets dev team, they can make their own decisions about 3rd party programs. I said I don't approve of modified clients because they provide players with extra information. And I think this is cheating.

In case I wasnt clear here are the particular sections of the mod i think qualify as cheating.

Quote:

- Radar complete reskinned, allows user to see slightly further and shows spirit range
- Frenzy Skill effect changed
- Glyph lesser energy skill effect changed (may be removed in final version)
- Glyph renewal skill effect changed (may be removed in final version)
- Rush skill effect changed

While they seem harmless Anet has to have a policy on stuff like this without grey areas. Either something is cheating, or its not. It can't be (kindof) cheating. While changing the effects of these skills might not play a huge roll in the game, whose to say someone can't then go make a mod where more crucial skill effects are edited to make them more obvious. As I said earlier, what if when a mesmer casts diversion a red alarm appears above his head. And another alarm signal above anyone using a res signet. Obviously that would be cheating, but in essence it is no difference than what has been done here.

NITEVIPER · Sep 01, 2007, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Do players using TS / vent have an advantage over players who arnt? Yes. But it is irrelevant

Is that because you use it so its ok ?

Quote:

While they seem harmless Anet has to have a policy on stuff like this without grey areas

They do. if it doesnt provide 1 player with an advantage over others then its ok, infact they encourage it. Many of the mods people make are used by ANET in updates.. How do you think they came up with the idea to make the UI transparent?.. it was a TEXMOD'er you released it first, it was then aproved by ANET and made official in a system wide update.

Quote:

But... it still makes bad players better, thus givin an advantage, and thus cheating. My point proven. and I'm not talking about just this mod I'm talking about any mod that changes anything to help you keep better track or help you realize something better or help you do anything better. If it needs to be changed period it's a cheat..

VENT-TS helps bad players to be better as they have someone more experianced guiding them, telling them what to do when. BTW Vent-TS is a mod as it isnt part of the original game. Its also a third party program, so i guess 60% (rough esti) of gamers in GW are cheaters.... ok

Quote:

As for the skins all I have to say is cheat. And do you know why? becuase you have to change it to make it look that way thus cheating.

I am actually colour blind so if someone makes a mod to help me read it better, im cheating because i can read the screen better than b4? .... rofl

The fact is TEXMOD has been used for years, sure some things people mod are classed as cheating and rightly so those players are then banned from GW, but many are NOT cheating and are widely used.

Faer · Sep 01, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Anybody who thinks changing textures is cheating needs to revert their system settings to default. That's right, crappy resolution, crappy colors, crappy background image. Why? Because by changing it, you are gaining an advantage over somebody else using that OS, because you might be able to use it more efficiently than they can. Your changes are helping you, but not somebody else, and that is obviously cheating.

RoF · Sep 04, 2007, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by NITEVIPER

Is that because you use it so its ok ?

Truncating quotes and substituting your own because, despite the fact that I had my own is quite poor form. Here is what i wrote, Ill make the because in bold so maybe you read it this time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

Using vent and TS is completely different than using a modified client. Do players using TS / vent have an advantage over players who arnt? Yes. But it is irrelevant because the game client has not been modified and the information provided by the IDENTICAL CLIENTS is the same for all players.

and to the guy above me saying that changing textures is not cheating.

I didnt say changing textures is cheating. I said modding the client to do so is cheating. Obviously having an awesome graphics card will make your game run faster at higher levels of detail than mine (17 FPS if I'm lucky), but we're still using the same client so it's ok...

And someone please give me an argument for how increasing the radar range is not cheating. I'd love to hear it.

TBH i'm simply against modding games that are run on central "public servers." Modding your single player games or multiplayer ones that you run on your own private server is perfectly fine. Modding games that are run purely on public servers IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE, no matter how good your intentions are.

My opinions are my own, and you can bash em if you like. I've seen enough great games completely destroyed by what at first were "helpful mods," that eventually turned into rampant cheating. (just look at what happened to Diablo) Obviously this guy is not trying to cheat... but the line between what he's done, and what is actually cheating is negligible. Feel free to disagree with me, but keep in mind what has happened to other games.

DarkNecrid · Sep 04, 2007, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Too bad you can't do rampant cheating with TexMod.

kkthnx

pork soldier · Sep 09, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

I read this and I lol'd - showing a 50% health mark is identical in function to dragging items off the menu to show the same thing, it's just cleaner. I suggest you QQ moar, and upgrade your video card while you're at it.

Knowledge · Sep 10, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoF

Truncating quotes and substituting your own because, despite the fact that I had my own is quite poor form. Here is what i wrote, Ill make the because in bold so maybe you read it this time.

and to the guy above me saying that changing textures is not cheating.

I didnt say changing textures is cheating. I said modding the client to do so is cheating. Obviously having an awesome graphics card will make your game run faster at higher levels of detail than mine (17 FPS if I'm lucky), but we're still using the same client so it's ok...

And someone please give me an argument for how increasing the radar range is not cheating. I'd love to hear it.

TBH i'm simply against modding games that are run on central "public servers." Modding your single player games or multiplayer ones that you run on your own private server is perfectly fine. Modding games that are run purely on public servers IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE, no matter how good your intentions are.

My opinions are my own, and you can bash em if you like. I've seen enough great games completely destroyed by what at first were "helpful mods," that eventually turned into rampant cheating. (just look at what happened to Diablo) Obviously this guy is not trying to cheat... but the line between what he's done, and what is actually cheating is negligible. Feel free to disagree with me, but keep in mind what has happened to other games.

what exactly is your gripe about this? you opinion, wihle you are definately permitted to have one, is pretty short-sighted considering.

1.) do you have a problem with the radar thing? if so, let me enlighten you a little.

the default interface radar, covers some of the range, thereby limiting the visibility on the radar. if you've ever played this game, in the least bit competitively, you will notice, that theres points on the border of the visible radar, that is still considered "radar range" but you can no longer see the enemy/ally that is there b/c the silver border covers it.

i dont see how changing the interface skin to alleviate this problem is cheating and neither should you, b/c clearly, there is a problem with the current radar/compass. changing the interface skin merely allows you to see what you should be able to see anyway.

in addition, there is no possible way to change the range on the radar b/c something like that would be hard-coded into the game and would actually require MODIFYING THE GAME CLIENT TO DO SO.

2.) this brings me to my other counter-argument. TexMod isn't and shouldn't be considered modifying the game client. think of texmod as tracing paper, and guildwars as the picture you are copying. you can trace the picture under it, without modifying the picture directly. you can then add w/e you want to the tracing paper, even discard it, leaving the original, completely untouched.

next point.

3.) you feel that this purely cosmetic enhancements are giving people an advantage over others?

notice how i worder that question, thats exactly what this mod does, PURELY COSMETIC. things like changing the UI skin provides no advantage whatsoever.

the new critical hit texture, provides no advantage, as simply knowing that you crit from the texture doesn't provide you with any information that you can manipulate in any way. plus there are several other ways of knowing when you crit (when you see the same dmg number appearing, the default crit texture, the crit sound, and if you're on a sin, the bonus energy from critting.)

do you think that adding 50% and 75%/80% tick marks on the hp bar is cheating? then those people that take default UI elements and mark these on their party bars are also cheating. have you ever played counterstrike? i knew people that stuck tape to their monitor so they could accurately no-scope with the awp/m and scout. is that cheating?

4.) or do you feel like having an advantage is cheating?

is thats the case, then those people with naturally higher IQ's, are cheating, which is completely ridiculous. or those people, that are just better than everyone at the game, are cheating. b/c, having played longer/being better, is an advantage. this is not cheating, and notice again, completely ridiculous to think it is.

back to the counterstrike thing. counterstrike had built in aliases. i used and abused this feature of aliases and ended up creating some of the most advanced scripts in the game, effectively doubling the amount of binds i could have by essentially doubling keyboard space through the use of scripts/aliases. was this cheating? it was an advantage, but i would hardly call it cheating.

5.) do you feel that the use of texmod to edit/modify textures will in some way/shape/form harm the game?

the game is set up that changing textures wont cause harm to the game, b/c pvp still requires you to complete certain objectives, all of which, the modification of textures will not lead to/expedite easier victories. you still have to kill your enemies, out-strategize your enemies, and eventually kill the guild lord/complete objectives in HA.

the only thing that would harm the game in this manner that you fear, would be ACTUALLY MODIFYING THE CLIENT, so that you can insta-gib some1, or constantly crit, do extra dmg, run extra fast, attack extra fast, cast extra fast, have inifinte energy (etc.). all of these, i feel that are pretty near impossible or else they would have been done already.

6.) i dont see how the line b/c cheating and editing textures is negligible. as a matter of fact, i think that the line here is pretty damn huge actually.

why? because there is no possible way that changing textures will give an unfair advantage in any given situation. if you're a bad monk, giving you the 50%, 75%, 80% marks will only allow you to hit more zbs and lods. nothing more. its not like things are going to magically live b/c you have these markers. theres a lot more to monking than these damn 50% and 80% marks.

7.) i dont know why i took this long to refute your opinion to tell you you are wrong, i could have just said you are stupid, and left it at that, but instead i provided an in-depth explanation as to why you are wrong.

get over your opinion, and your short-sighted view of editing on tracing paper. people have been texmodding forever, just it hasn't been as public until recently. its sort of like the duping that happened. in either case,

TexModding isn't cheating. <--- Notice the Punctuation.