Curse

Epinephrine · Dec 04, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Lol, that's creative, it's a portable res shrine :P

Cute, I'll have to do that next time I need a pet

KhorAxx · Dec 06, 2006, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Guys, i need your experet advice on the way i will take to train further my pet. What i did so far was to train a lvl. 5 Stalker in Alkali Pain as dead (killing foes as a wurm-the pet did not get any hit) up to lvl. 10. I switched afterwqards to the Gates of Kryta killing margoyles ...it has evolved to lvl. 13 as a Playful. What style shall I adopt now to: a) have it evolving to Elder and b) have it evolve to Dire. And please can someone more experienced (and i have seen that there are a lot of people here very active in this post that are indeed very experienced) what are the advantages of having a Dire versus having an Elder?

Thank you very much in advance,

KA

unienaule · Dec 07, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Dire-more damage, less hp. Elder, middle of the road. Hearty, more hp, less damage. It's all in the first few posts on page one of the thread, which you can get to by clicking "<<First". As for the evolution, I don't know those answers, sorry.

KhorAxx · Dec 07, 2006, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Uni, thanks anyway for your reply...i'll wait a little bit then i'll start a random training program and see the results.

KA

Epinephrine · Dec 07, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I'll post a quick answer:
You can't evolve it to Dire; evolution to Dire has only been observed from Aggressive.
Both Aggressive and Playful can evolve to Elder.
Playful can evolve to Hearty.

There is roughly a 15% bonus to base damage for a Dire pet (compared to Elder), with a 60 health penalty to balance it.
There is roughly a 15% decrease in base damage for a Hearty pet (compared to Elder), with a 60 health bonus to balance it.

Nobody is quite sure what the "best" evolution is, as the effects are varied. Obviously Dires do the most damage, with the least health, while Hearty has the least damage and the most health.

When the guide was written the attack skills did much less damage, so the proportion of the damage the pet dealt that was affected by the Dire/Hearty evolution mattered a fair bit. Now the damage from skills is very large, and this bonus damage is not affected; the hit from an Enraged Lunge will only vary a few points between a Dire and a Hearty pet, but a 120 health difference is pretty substantial. As a result of the increases in pet attack skill damage, more people are leaning toward Elder/Hearty pets, and simply making up the damage with attack skills; the difference between a base 420 health and a base 540 health are pretty important when the pet comes under fire.

An additional complication has arisen of sorts; while it was suggested that Hearty pets are best to tank for a player and that Dire pets may be the best to attack with the lower health of the Dire pet may in fact prioritise it as a target, while the higher health of the Hearty may make it a less favorable target, and thus aggro fewer foes. In a sense then, the Hearty pet may be a worse tank, in that it may gather and hold aggro less effectively.

I'm torn myself, I like the added damage a Dire pet deals, even if it's a small effect. If it's worth having a 16 instead of a 15 in an attribute it may be worth it to have a Dire pet. The flip side is that a Hearty pet does survive better, so it may spend more time dealing damage. Elder is a compromise.

KhorAxx · Dec 07, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Thank you very much Epinephrine for yor answer. As you have stated, mine has evolved to Elder...and I was a little disapointed. But now I have decided to keep it as it is and i'm even glad it has evolved that way. I think that a lot of rangers that use pets in their builds are also thorn apart between these choices..and until AN decides to allow the Rangers to collect variously evolved pets this will be allway a subject for lively debates.

Thank you once again for taking the time to answer my questions.

KA

joswi windu · Dec 08, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

hey i heard that lions do slightly more dmg than other pets, does anyone know for sure? or are they the same as others?

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Dec 08, 2006, 10:48 AM // 10:48

NO pet does ANY more or less damage than another pet, this would cause imbalance and imbalance would make ANet very unhappy, and the nerf bat would strike. Hey Ep has anyone figured out the damage types of the factions/nightfall pets yet?

Oh and Khorr to throw in my two cents on what Ep said, Dire is mainly for PvP, Elder is for a little bit of both, and Hearty would be for PvE.

My reasoning behind this is, that in PvP people have learned to not attack the beast but focus on the master. While in PvE some of the mobs may take a less "intelligent" route and attack the pet, and with the large numbers of PvE mobs that can overwhelm a pet that has low health very quickly. Elder is the ultimate middle ground, it can go either way and noth make too much difference, I also believe that raising an Elder Pet is the hardest too, since you have to switch play styles in mid raising a pet..anyway gl with everything. Great job Ep and Jeno, love the guide.

Happy Hunting,
Kij

XvArchonvX · Dec 08, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

I'm torn myself, I like the added damage a Dire pet deals, even if it's a small effect. If it's worth having a 16 instead of a 15 in an attribute it may be worth it to have a Dire pet. The flip side is that a Hearty pet does survive better, so it may spend more time dealing damage. Elder is a compromise.

Yea, I know how you feel. To deal with this I have one of my rangers with a hearty wolf and trained a hyena dire on my other ranger. I don't think I would make another ranger to have a elder pet though.

lyra_song · Dec 08, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kijik Oni Hanryuu

My reasoning behind this is, that in PvP people have learned to not attack the beast but focus on the master. While in PvE some of the mobs may take a less "intelligent" route and attack the pet, and with the large numbers of PvE mobs that can overwhelm a pet that has low health very quickly.

I duno ^^ in PVP, if its a Rampage Thumper, best to blind the ranger, then kill the pet.

blackbird71 · Dec 12, 2006, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Wow, an amazing guide, I'm sorry I didn't find it sooner. Thanks so much to you two for putting it together. I've always been a fan of pets, my primary character being a ranger, and this just helps with more great ideas and info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

...When the guide was written the attack skills did much less damage, so the proportion of the damage the pet dealt that was affected by the Dire/Hearty evolution mattered a fair bit. Now the damage from skills is very large, and this bonus damage is not affected; the hit from an Enraged Lunge will only vary a few points between a Dire and a Hearty pet, but a 120 health difference is pretty substantial. As a result of the increases in pet attack skill damage, more people are leaning toward Elder/Hearty pets, and simply making up the damage with attack skills; the difference between a base 420 health and a base 540 health are pretty important when the pet comes under fire...

I'm really glad I read through the whole thread and found this before I took any action. After reading most of the posts, I was all prepared to give up my Hearty Stalker for a Dire, something that I was reluctant to do because after all, we survived the sear together and nearly 1 1/2 years of adventuring. After this, it looks like Hearty is still a good option for me, so we're sticking together.

I'd just like to point out that the skill Comfort Animal has changed, as it no longer disables your skills on pet rez. Perhaps its rating deserves a re-evaluation? I've found that using comfort animal to rez and instantly following with a predator's pounce is an effective way to quickly get your pet back into the fight.

I'd be really interested to see what Nightfall has added to all of this. Jenosavel and Epinepherine, you've already put so much effort into this project that I wouldn't ask you to do more, but if it's something you do decide to tackle, I'd be more than willing to offer any assistance I can. Thanks again for an outstanding piece of work!

Deadly Eyezz · Dec 16, 2006, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Too much work for just a pet in just a game :P
IMO, Not worth all that. just play and have fun

Anyways thanks..

Isaac Rahl · Dec 16, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

What type of damage do reef lurkers do? I didnt see that mentioned in the guide. I'd also like to mention that the level 20 lurkers found in Boreas Seabed (mission) are no longer tameable as stated by GuildWiki.

Lady Lozza · Dec 17, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

gah, I think I've asked this question (or similar before). So if it doesn't evolve at lvl15, it won't evolve at all, correct? I've an agressive pet but it didn't evolve at 15

Gw_daz · Dec 18, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Nice work guys

Really Gd Guide

Puebert · Dec 29, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Hey, I am making a Minion Master Guide, and I was wondering if I could use the same format as you guys.

BTW, EXCELLENT GUIDE!

[skill=big]Enraged Lunge[/skill]

FTW!

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Dec 29, 2006, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

I duno ^^ in PVP, if its a Rampage Thumper, best to blind the ranger, then kill the pet.

lol lyra, that's kinda what I said.

More on topic, hey Epinephrine and Jenosavel what kind of pets do you like to use skin wise? I prefer either a Phoenix or a Dune lizard myself, I had gotten attached to Black Widows SSing so many spider runs, but now that I stopped I'm back to my fav phoenix.

Epinephrine · Dec 29, 2006, 12:28 PM // 12:28

What skin...
Well, one of the best I find for BM is Moa. Tall enough to see easily, keep track of it in a fray, very easy to spot attack animation, with the attack animation well synched to the actual attack, making it easier to time using pet attacks.

I happen to like the various cats aesthetically, and my ranger currently has a Dire Melandru's Stalker named Kamuniak, but for ages I had a Moa.

The small pets I find too hard to spot in combat, and you end up having to rely on the damage numbers to indicate when your attacks are resolving; I've had small pets (Crabs, Jahai Rat and such) and just found them tougher to work with. The cats are still a little small for my taste, but I do like them.

If a bear didn't have Brutal Mauling I'd consider a bear; it was my first pet and one I wish I could use, but I can't justify dropping my damage output 30% for the look. It's big, easy to spot and a decent skin, and the atacks are synched to the animation pretty well.

Puebert · Dec 29, 2006, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

What skin...
Well, one of the best I find for BM is Moa. Tall enough to see easily, keep track of it in a fray, very easy to spot attack animation, with the attack animation well synched to the actual attack, making it easier to time using pet attacks.

I happen to like the various cats aesthetically, and my ranger currently has a Dire Melandru's Stalker named Kamuniak, but for ages I had a Moa.

The small pets I find too hard to spot in combat, and you end up having to rely on the damage numbers to indicate when your attacks are resolving; I've had small pets (Crabs, Jahai Rat and such) and just found them tougher to work with. The cats are still a little small for my taste, but I do like them.

If a bear didn't have Brutal Mauling I'd consider a bear; it was my first pet and one I wish I could use, but I can't justify dropping my damage output 30% for the look. It's big, easy to spot and a decent skin, and the atacks are synched to the animation pretty well.

According to guildwiki, Brutal Mauling is an attack and can trigger Paragon Shouts.

Maybe thats what it does.

Iunno, I still wouldn't use it. But I still find that interesting.

Puebert · Dec 29, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

What skin...
Well, one of the best I find for BM is Moa. Tall enough to see easily, keep track of it in a fray, very easy to spot attack animation, with the attack animation well synched to the actual attack, making it easier to time using pet attacks.

I happen to like the various cats aesthetically, and my ranger currently has a Dire Melandru's Stalker named Kamuniak, but for ages I had a Moa.

The small pets I find too hard to spot in combat, and you end up having to rely on the damage numbers to indicate when your attacks are resolving; I've had small pets (Crabs, Jahai Rat and such) and just found them tougher to work with. The cats are still a little small for my taste, but I do like them.

If a bear didn't have Brutal Mauling I'd consider a bear; it was my first pet and one I wish I could use, but I can't justify dropping my damage output 30% for the look. It's big, easy to spot and a decent skin, and the atacks are synched to the animation pretty well.

According to guildwiki, Brutal Mauling is an attack and can trigger Paragon Shouts.

Maybe thats what it does.

Iunno, I still wouldn't use it. But I still find that interesting.