Curse

Jenosavel · Jun 12, 2006, 01:42 AM // 01:42

The pets level up relatively quickly, especially if you equip a -hp item and either remove all your armor or equip a low-armor set filled with Sup Runes (as some farming builds use). It'll take several hours, but definitely not days.

Also, I've now tested at least two Black Moas and both turned out to be Elder. Since I'd previously guessed they would be unevolved (and thus elder), this just adds a little strength to that assumption. I'll keep an eye out for a Dire or Hearty Black Moa, but I'm not expecting to find one.

Boomer the Gnome · Jun 14, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I can note that Warthogs naturally move 10-25% faster inherently.
Mine is kiting me on a string.. it catches up and drifts back.

BerryRacer · Jun 15, 2006, 05:05 AM // 05:05

First off i would just like to say!! Amazing job i can only guess at how long it must of taken you both to collect up this great stuff!! Thank you for spending your time helping me and so many others in this way!

Secondly though it is probably not worth mentioning, pets can complete bonuses, and i assume missions after a party wipe out. Heres my story> Me and some friends were doing the bonus for the mission in the jungle (forget what its called, i think wilds, anyway though its the cystal running one).

The bonus is you have to kill that white mantle leader guy at the back. So we tried to charge through the big hoard of mantle waiting to run cystals, i came in and some how managed to get past them all and loose aggro. At this stage everyone else had died. However in loosing aggro as i previously said, i got into the bonus bosses range.

Anyway i got killed and the message "Return to outpost showed up". However though just before i had died i must of had call of protection running (as i always run with 16 beast when i use pet) So anyway my bear and this Mantle boss guy fight it out and my bear wins, and ofcourse, even though we are all dead the sword cross thing appears and we get the bonus

Anyway just thought i would add that. Really look forward to when (if you should have the spare time, ofcourse) you guys are able to test the new pets!
If you should need any help(should you get to testing), my friends and i would love to help, as we have all manner of pets

Jenosavel · Jun 19, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomer the Gnome

I can note that Warthogs naturally move 10-25% faster inherently.
Mine is kiting me on a string.. it catches up and drifts back.

All pets inherantly move 25% faster than players. 'Twas in the update notes ages ago.

@BerryRacer thanks! That's an interesting tidbit I would never have guessed.

Dscrilla · Jun 21, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

WOW, Epinephrine that was incredibly thurough and well written. Thanks for the info! Agian this shows the community at Guildwarsguru has the edge.

Narcism · Jun 23, 2006, 07:50 AM // 07:50

If my pet hits level 15 and becomes a Dire Pet, can the leveling from there happen in any area, or do I have to keep with the do-more-damage-then-me mentality?

Lews · Jun 23, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

I think it's still the do more damage then me, Narc, but you'll have to get someone who knows better to find out for sure

Narcism · Jun 23, 2006, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Because I really don't want to make it to Dire pet, then go to tombs to finish leveling it up, and it goes to Elder :/

Jenosavel · Jun 24, 2006, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Once it evolves at 15, it will remain that evolution forever. You don't have to worry about what happens beyond that point affecting your evolution. I usually switch to a Hearty-esque speed oriented build once my pets hit lvl 15 Dire, since what you do with it wont change the evolution beyond that point.

Dyon Adell · Jun 25, 2006, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Amazing guide. The amount of information and knowledge, it's truly respectable!

Seaman_yemen · Jun 25, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

a pure work of art

Fender · Jun 27, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Sorry if this has been asked before, I searched the thread and didn't find a quick answer.

About pet criticals. Maybe pet criticals work differently than player criticals. Player criticals are weapon max * 1.41. What if pet criticals are simply the normal random damge * 1.41? From looking at the dire graph, this seams reasonable. The % chance of a hit above 32 is about the same. It looks to me like the normal range for a dire pet is something like 20 - 32, with criticals then ranging from 28 - 42. The overlap accounts for the spike between 28 and 32, then the sharp drop after that.

edit: Also, did pets get another boost or some other change? A guildmate is reporting occasional pet hits of 57 with an elder spider, but not with an elder wolf. The wolf's high range is still in the 40s. I haven't verified this myself.

Epinephrine · Jun 27, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

@Fender

That indeed is the assumption, that the criticals don't function properly (I'll tell you that the same holds true for minions, I submitted data on minions to guildwiki a while back and the distributions are the same as for pets, with the same shape where the critical range/regular range overlap, increasing in the size of the effect as BM/minion level goes up, ppresumably due to increased critical hit chances) or at least function differently.

As to solving it, I am in the process of doing it, based on PanSola's suggestion on page 2 or so of this thread; Factions fever has finally calmed enough that I can scrimmage and determine the true damage ranges of pets, and from that can establish the critical hit rtes and precise evolution bonuses, as well as the effect of BM on evolution bounses and so on. Granted, most of it could be done operating on the hypothesis that the distribution represents a summation of critical and non-critical hits, and by looking at the prevalence of higher critical range attacks and the portion of hits that would make up those hits one could come up with a critical hit rate by BM investment, then work backward to find bonuses - but it would be quite theoretical and prone to errors. PanSola's method of using Balanced Stance is the logical way to do this, and hopefully I'll have the data up this week, solving the question of evolution effect and critical rates most likely.

As for isolated high damage hits from a Spider, that's new to me. If it is consistent it is something to investigate, but I doubt that they've made a sudden balance change. More likely the foes varied? Spiders do piercing damage, wolves do slashing damage and some foes have different AL versus these. At some point one of us will likely re-test the various animals to ensure that the damages haven't changed. I know she's working on the new pets currently, and I've begun doing some training of Factions pets as well to gather data (gogo Dire Crane!)

EDIT: You'll note that the max damage for a BM 12 Elder wolf would be 41 versus AL60, while the spider has done a reported 57; this is a ration of roughly 1.4:1, which is equivalent (within rounding error) to a 20AL difference - precisely the difference used on skeletons for example, to make them vulnerable to blunt and resistant to piercing, and the same as the Weaken Armor and other skills. 20AL seems a pretty standard amount to create a vulnerability, so I would assume that such is the issue.

T1Cybernetic · Jun 28, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Just curious but,

Has anyone reported a dire pet in pre-searing? i've been thinking
of trying it just for the hell of it, when i have time of course, ...

Epinephrine · Jun 28, 2006, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Yes, it was trivially easy to do before a recent update, so there are many high level Dire pets in pre - I had a level 20 Dire wolf for my level 16 ranger. However, with the change to levelling (untamed animals no longer gain levels when killing a player) it is much harder to do, and I doubt that many (if any)have been raised since then - particularly as you need to keep damage to the pet at a minimum but have none of the skills that are typically used to do so. Good luck if you try it; the pet will need to be killing things that are at least level 9 to get to level 15, which means taking on the Charr bosses without much damage to the pet - a herculean task.

samurai snack · Jul 02, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Love the guide and glad i learned that bears suck

(i can rub it in player's faces when they brag about their "rare and strong bear"). this guide has inspired me to become a beastmaster but i really think ANet should make it easier to make a pet become dire, because according to posts from many players, they TRY and to no avail, the dreaded...Playful DUM DUM DUMMM. i want my pet to deal reasonable damage but not die at the first sign of a fully beefed up obsidian flame spike...i want to make it elder but theres that off-chance that it will not take on a second evolution...maybe ill try my best to be a beastmaster and keep my pet alive as well as keeping the pet

layer damage ratio more in the pet's favor and if it becomes aggresive, turn it into a meat bag lol, but if it comes out playful(high chance) then i will try tanking instead of the pet...

Wish me luck...

Deaths Embrace · Jul 02, 2006, 08:57 AM // 08:57

yes very awsome guide, but still as always I seem to be the only one that goes for hearty over anything else.I wish that anet would add some way to stable your pet so you could have more then one lol

kilo1501 · Jul 06, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Where do you think would be the best place to level up a dire pet in factions?
I only have factions so I dont have call of protection or symbiotic bond, Are there any other skills that would help guide my pet to dire?

ChaoticCoyote · Jul 06, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaths Embrace

yes very awsome guide, but still as always I seem to be the only one that goes for hearty over anything else.I wish that anet would add some way to stable your pet so you could have more then one lol

I went for hearty with my Dune Lizard, Fluffy. I use him as a meat shield and distraction; with Call of Protection, he can withstand just about anything in the game one-on-one, and he usually survives longer than my Ranger. He doesn't do a lot of damage, but while they bad guys are hitting him, they're ignoring me.

Story: I was in a Rotscale PUG last week, and we got our fannies handed to us by the old monster. Operating on 60% DP, none of us could do anything -- but Fluffy, with 500+ hit points and no DP, just kept on going. When we had it down to just Rotscale, the monks kept healing me and Fluffy, while I maintained Call of Protection and added a little damaged here and there. Yes, my Hearty Dune lizard took down Rotscale, in just over an hour.

The guys in the group gave me the Rotwing bow.

I'm amazed people hung around for the whole show! Best darned fun I've had in months in this game, and that's saying a lot.

So Hearty isn't necessarily bad.

Epinephrine · Jul 06, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

A very topical question - Jenosavel had just written me this morning about a similar subject.

I haven't scouted Cantha for a spot to do this, but some have been posted by others - typically you want melee opponents, of a reasonable level for your pet. Yetis were one such sugestion. Avoid any enemies that cause conditions or use damaging hexes/spells - they're not easy to protect against.

What's your secondary? I'm assuming ranger primary, though I've trained for non ranger primaries too.

It may be worth using a specific secondary in order to do it, one with which you can substantially limit damage to your pet. Monk would come to mind in fact as the best option, with Ritualist a possible choice as well. Given that you can choose a new secondary quite early in game this is doable. The Monk elite Life Sheath actually prevents damage to the target, which is handy

Other monk spells can prolong this effect, as can raising the pet's armour value (which obviously reduces damage to the pet). Life Bond in combination with Life Sheath doubles the duration of the Life Sheath. Nothing else can really prevent all damage.

The other thing to remember is that good positioning can make a huge difference, and to get as much attacking on yourself as ppossible. As a warrior secondary you could for example invest in tactics and employ Protector's Stance and recharge it via "On Your Knees!" for example - this would require attacking to build adrenaline, but with no points in a hammer and with flurry for example you'd be unlikely to actually cause much damage - Counter Blow would be enough for a knockdown.

It's an interesting question, as even Otyugh's Cry (used for a 20 AL boost) is a prophecies-only skill. I suspect that Monk secondary will be the best solution, and that Life Sheath is the best way to ensure no damage gets through, combined with ways to stretch that protection (miss rates/blocking and Life Bond).

I'll also mention to Jeno that we need to come up with ways for non ranger-primaries to train Dire pets with Factions-only skills.