Curse

Dagbiker · May 09, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

look the way i see it is in stead of making a high level cap, they are making a big and i mean big world, one that will be almost imposibal, to explore and if by some marical you do explore all of it, there will be an expansion with more of the world on it so you can explore that. instead of making a hi cap, they are making a big game

JjK · May 09, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I like it.

Wrain · May 09, 2005, 02:11 PM // 14:11

thing is, people who don't want a higher lvl cap are all for pvp. they can pvp all day everyday and never get tired and that is what they are there for and not the pve. those who want an higher lvl cap are usually for pve or they are pvp people that just want to go into the area and kill everyone with ease and no skill.

i personally like the lvl cap of 20 and i'm all for pve and really don't care about pvp, but only problem i see is this, yes they are planning to add a lot more stuff and areas to explore and all, but won't it get rediculous after a while if they add some creatures for you to kill with a party of lvl 20s and then later add some badass dragons or something that should be way more powerful than the weaker creatures they added before, but they can't make them more stronger because if they did, the party of lvl 20s wouldn't be able to beat them. in other words that means that once you reach lvl 20, all the creatures in the game and added to the game would have to be at a similar lvl or else noone would beable to beat them since we can't go past lvl 20. therefore rendering killing creatures boring and pointless after awhile because there wouldn't be any challenge and it would seem stupid to fight something that should be way more superior to some of the other creatures you've been killing. i feel people will get bored with the game really fast.

solution: ffxi has ballista's for there lack of pvp, in these ballists's there are lvl caps. gw could raise the cap for all pve, but anytime you choose to participate in pvp or gvg your lvl would be caped at lvl 20 to keep it balanced. therefore, pve won't become rediculous and boring, and remember other players have skill, pve computer controlled mobs don't.

for pvp, i also would like to point out that i think people are wrong from saying that if the cap is raised that will cause unbalance, because i won't because the game will still be balanced but only balanced at a different lvl. at the same time, that means that it would be entirely pointless to raise the lvl cap because you'd be just the same at lvl 20 against other lvl 20s as you would at lvl 30 against other lvl 30s.

so, i say raise the cap, but keep it caped at lvl 20 for pvp and gvg.

Balc · May 09, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

They will add new skills before raising the cap. End of story. This is a skills based game not level. If this was a lvl grinding game I wouldnt be playing it.

Bone_White_Haze · May 09, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomandoor

Ok so lvl 20 is max. Now we want more

No, we don't.

This is not a MMORPG, there is no advantage to grinding, and there is no reason for GW to be the same vanilla generic fantasy game you can get from 20 other companies. If you want one of those games, then please go play it.

This design is brilliant, with the exception of the training period too closely resembling dozens of similar products that are NOT the same game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomandoor

See? so you will have to fight other players to get better and you will lose exp if you die. now i cant see anyone scripting bots that could beat players of the same level in arenas..

Good idea?

No. Any design that takes experience away from a player (for any reason) is invariably a bad game design. Backwards progression for losing just ensures that new PvP players will never get a foothold--get beat ten consecutive times while learning the ropes, see the xp hole they're in, and never play again.

The beauty of GW is that you don't HAVE to grind to reach a level where you're competetive. And there's no punishment for making mistakes while you're learning.

Pevil Lihatuh · May 09, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrain

thing is, people who don't want a higher lvl cap are all for pvp. they can pvp all day everyday and never get tired and that is what they are there for and not the pve. those who want an higher lvl cap are usually for pve or they are pvp people that just want to go into the area and kill everyone with ease and no skill.

im not interested in PvP (although I'll give it a go) and i dont want to see a higher level cap. see my post before:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pevil

Keep the cap at 20, put in a new hard boss that takes a different strategy to beat. Fun.

Put the cap to 30. Add in a new hard boss that takes a different strategy to beat. Fun.

The difference? None but a number. "people will realize they are simply fighting remixes of old things" how does a number stop them being remixes? If the guild wars devs lose inspiration, upping the cap isn't going to suddenly inspire them is it?

How does a higher cap alter what you are fighting? It doesn't. They don't need to make a higher cap, what they need to do is introduce new skills with the new chapters. Which I'm fairly sure is already the plan.

edit: dont forget, the fact this is a game of skill is NOT limited to PvP; the PvE is also supposed to be skillful, not "I have twice the hitpoints of that monster"

Dreamsmith · May 09, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by jomandoor

But you can go up to level 30 from killing other players in tournaments and arenas, although you will lose exp if you die in the arenas and tournaments but this will never drop you below lvl 20.
...
Good idea?

Extraordinarily bad idea. It would make the problems that the level cap is supposed to solve worse!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

I want to keep exploring, find new stuff, and and hopefully someday, MEET A DRAGON and hand it some pain...

Exactly! That's exactly the kind of thing you should look forward to in the future. Raising the level cap won't help provide that in any way (in fact it's counterproductive -- adding new, more challenging content is easier if the level cap stays the same).

Monsters don't get more challenging if you both raise their level and raise the players' levels to compensate -- you end up exactly where you were, with a bit of pointless number inflation thrown in. Making monsters more challenging while keeping the level cap the same, however, does make things more challenging. Lornar's Pass would be a lot less challenging than it is now if the level cap was raised. Asking to raise the level cap is asking for the game to be made more easy and boring, not less.

Nicholai Phoenix · May 09, 2005, 09:43 PM // 21:43

See... reading this I now want to know... wth is ascending. Iv played in the beta weekends, all of them, I got my frist char (a W/R) to level 20, and I did nothing special, I was at the mission AFTER you
{SPOILERS FOR PEOPLE THAT CARE ABOUT THE STORY}
kill that white mantel guy(who was really really hard)
{END OF SPOILERS FOR PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT THE STORY}=P
so if someone can PM what this is and explain to me what extra stuff you get

As for what the topic is about, the levle cap need not be raised, just add more content to the game, which has been stated before that its already in the plan.

SOT · May 09, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

when you get rid of all the reasons they give it equals
*i want to be more important by having a higher level character than a newcomer to the game*

Now you're pulling stuff out of your end. That's fine.

Loviatar · May 10, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

Now you're pulling stuff out of your end. That's fine.

nope

every one of the level raising threads have people who want special higher level armor, weapons, and recognation of their higher level in the game

not recognition for skill but recognition of level that people can see and know instantly that this is a high level person........important

Goonter · May 10, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

I had, what I thought was a good solution to the lvl cap.

I love the game the way it is now, i like the lvl 20 cap. I consider myself a casual player too. And I hate grinding too. I really hate it. So I dont mean to add grind with the idea, just specaliztion and customablity for everybody casual and hardcore players alike.

So the idea is I can choose to increase the damage or duration or decrease the casting or cooldown time of a specific skill. And that will stack with whatever your selected attrubites are.
No more attrubite points are givin or needed. I agree, that would be to much to fast.

For example:

I have a ranger lvl 20 with all the skills I want, great armor, great weapons.

Now, after reaching lvl 20, when I lvl up I can marginall increase one skill that I like to use for my ranger build.
I select to upgrade the the skill powershot.

Description: This arrow shot deals 8+ extra damage.
Cost: 10
Skill Type: Attack Skill .
Cooldown Time: 5 second(s)
Casting Time: 0 second(s)

I can use my next lvl to make powershot look like this.

Description: This arrow shot deals 9+ extra damage.
Cost: 10
Skill Type: Attack Skill .
Cooldown Time: 5 second(s)
Casting Time: 0 second(s)

And in time my skill will cap at this:

Description: This arrow shot deals 10+ extra damage.
Cost: 8
Skill Type: Attack Skill .
Cooldown Time: 5 second(s)
Casting Time: 0 second(s)

or this:

Description: This arrow shot deals 10+ extra damage.
Cost: 10
Skill Type: Attack Skill .
Cooldown Time: 3 second(s)
Casting Time: 0 second(s)

Now my ranger isnt uber powerful, just marginally better at the skill - powershot, because it is what I invested in.
I could grind and do this to all my ranger skills if I want (it would take a long time and be sort of pointless) or I can just increase the skills I like to use. As a casual gamer this would take some amount of time, but for a purpose.

Maybe! this idea could be used in conjuntion with rare drops. Or maybe it could be just a rare drop in general.

I really would have liked to upgraded skills to help get a little edge and reason to keep playing the pve and clear all mission after acsension (i got the idea from city of heros)
But as it turns out, even this is unpreferred by some who like the way the game already is.

If the majority of people are happy with the end product I dont see the developing team actually going out of there way to change it. I think whats probably going to happen is they will make bigger and harder expansion packs for the game. If they add new classes, races, skills, equipment, cloths, weapon, armor, skins, upgradables etc etc., its just as well as adding a new lvl cap. I dont ask to be more powerful than the next guy, just that I have a character that can put out maxium performance for my playing style.

Dagbiker · May 10, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56

that might be the time when you could have ten people in your group, or in stead of having the bad ass dragon have eghet spells, he might have six, the number is just a number, actualy i think it might be an introsting idea to remove the levels from the game, and just have a +1 or a -3 if its to hard or to easy for you and your group, because its not the number its also the creatures design,

Aidan Gawain · May 10, 2005, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Once you get to 20, you can improve your character by getting new skills and equipment rather than by leveling up. Skills and equipment are more strategic than across-the-board stat bonuses from leveling. If they expand the game, it will be by adding more skills for strategy, not by simply making everyone grind for 10 more levels before reaching the new max.

Wrain · May 10, 2005, 12:00 PM // 12:00

ok scratch my last idea, how about this, why don't they just make the lvl cap at lvl 1, don't even have a lvl period. you just start the game the same way you would as if you were a lvl 20 already, just with zero skills as you start the game now. run around do quests find your skills and never get not 1 exp ever through out the entire game, not for quests and not for kills from day one.

Deagol · May 10, 2005, 12:12 PM // 12:12

That would probably have been a good idea, all things considered, but it is a little late for that.

What I suggest they do instead is to drop the level designators for ascended characters, and perhaps instead show rank/fame. And be happy that the expansions are in practice going to be level-less.

Bone_White_Haze · May 10, 2005, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrain

ok scratch my last idea, how about this, why don't they just make the lvl cap at lvl 1, don't even have a lvl period. you just start the game the same way you would as if you were a lvl 20 already, just with zero skills as you start the game now. run around do quests find your skills and never get not 1 exp ever through out the entire game, not for quests and not for kills from day one.

Perfectly workable. I suspect the levels were in there as a lure for traditional MMO players, but a level-less system where you acquire x skill points and y attribute points every z experience (to cap of x(z) and y(z)) would work exactly as well. Hell, you'd get 'dings' more frequently ("You just earned an attribute point") for people that require dings to feel like they're making progress.

And we wouldn't have people (already, as soon as the game opened) asking to have the cap raised--because there wouldn't be levels at all.

But level is a fair at-a-glance designator of a character's capabilities, if you're building a pickup team in the training part of the game. Not quite sure what would replace it.

Alpha Tremere · May 11, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

No one seems to mention a point i've seen before. You have several character slots. Level 20 max means you can max out -more then one- character. So you can -try new things- --- you're not "locked into" a character class that's 3/4 of the way to level 80. Once you're maxed, if you get tired of that class, you can switch to another character and max that one in a few weeks. This is a point of competence that the DEVS intentionally did and will certianly not change. They clearly want to make grinding irrelevant, and have done an admirable job of it.

RTSFirebat · May 11, 2005, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by egads

No, the maximum level is not going to change. Please use the search function to find out why.

Even if we did want to change it, this would be a bad idea. As Zorlag said, the winners would be continually gaining levels and getting the advantage that would come with it, whereas the losers' levels would constantly degrade. In other words, the people at the top would stay there and be very difficult to topple, even by more skilled players.

I did, can't find anything.

So why don't you stop being a nub and just explain

Willow · May 11, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I love that everytime someone complains about wanting more levels, there's even more people to tell them how wrong they are.

Because I sure as hell don't want more levels.

Rasp · May 11, 2005, 05:23 PM // 17:23

I like the way the game is atm. It really is a game about skill, not who can sit at there PC the longest. ( I've played enough MMORPGs where you have n00bs who have high level characters, yet they kill everyone with ease. (due to being able to play longer than others ) )

Raising the level cap will not change anything drastically for the better, so what's the point? If anything, add more missions / quests / storyline / etc.

If you don't like the level cap on this game, then go play another one with max level 99, overpowered weapons, and absolutely no balance.

The people who want a higher level, I'd presume have no skill and just want to be better than everyone else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

IMO, Arena Net eventually will have to change that. Never say never. It makes no sense to cap it as such. Basically because after a year or two, people will realize they are simply fighting remixes of old things, with new graphical dancing rather than NEW stuff. The cap will HAVE to go up, or people will wake up from the suspension of disbelief...if you cap something like the ability to beef up your dude or dudette, people will not see the point.

Myself, like many I have spoken with, did not plunk down $50 for a game, to grind up to the eternal plateau of 20, facing other people and that's it. Sure, I look forward to getting to 20, and having my guild win and lose a bunch in GVG and PVP, but I do not want a $50 deathmatch tool. I want to keep exploring, find new stuff, and and hopefully someday, MEET A DRAGON and hand it some pain...

How does it not make sense? It's a game about skill, which they've said many of times. New stuff doesn't require more levels, just new content.

If people want an uber beefed up character that can kill anyone with ease, then this isn't the game for them, is it? Did you happen to read anything about this game before you purchased it? It's not Arena Net's fault that you didn't.