Curse

Romac · May 09, 2005, 10:56 AM // 10:56

here's how Thirsty River most commonly works IF and only IF you have a consistent team or henchmen...if you are constantly changing team mates then it probably takes longer:

Attempt # 1: 20 minutes to kill sand giants and attempt 1st team...start over
Attempt # 2: 20 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 2nd team...start over
Attempt # 3: 25 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 2nd team...start over
Attempt # 4: 25 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 3rd team...start over
Attempt # 5: 30 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 3rd team...start over
Attempt # 6: 35 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 4th team...start over
Attempt # 7: 30 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 3rd team...start over
Attempt # 8: 35 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 4th team...start over
Attempt # 9: 35 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 5th team...start over
Attempt #10: 40 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 4th team...start over
Attempt #11: 40 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 5th team...start over
Attempt #12: 40 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 5th team...start over
Attempt #13: 45 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 6th team...start over
Attempt #14: 45 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 5th team...start over
Attempt #15: 45 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 5th team...start over
Attempt #16: 45 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 6th team...start over
Attempt #17: 45 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 6th team...success

Total GRIND: 10 hours, and that's a pretty conservative estimate IMO...you will find accounts of people spending a whole week at thirsty river.

Elona's Reach was a similar experience for me...took one full 8 hour saturday for me, and another 2 hours the next day.

Some may think this is a challenge...well it's not...it's a grind. Put in your 10 hours at each of the 3 missions for ascension and another 10 hours for the final test, and you will ascend. The first time you successfully defeat a team at thirsty river is a challenge...having to re-defeat the same teams over, and over, and over, and over is not challenging...mindless repetition = grind. Ascension does not = challenge...ascension = 40 hours.

Everything up to ascension was fun, then we get hid in the head with a boorrring, frustrating grind.

Oh well i guess i got what i needed out of my RP toon...i guess i'll just ditch that toon and make a pvp toon. i have 30 hours of ascension left, and my spare time is waaaay too valuable to waste it on such an incredibly boring, and frustrating GRIND.

Vangor · May 09, 2005, 11:58 AM // 11:58

I've heard people complain that it is a grind, but, it seems that quite a few do enjoy the challenge and don't feel the same. It isn't like getting to level 50 or whatever in another, where all you are doing is fighting monsters over and over, it is really completing objectives. Granted I'd love to not have to worry and be level 20 right now to PvP, bored of trying to level when I have finals this week, have been studying for them, the tests just before em, and papers due around then, but it isn't a real hassle I don't feel.

Of course, haven't been here so perhaps, a tone down of the repetition though sounds in order from the way you put it, albeit I can't understand your version completely.

Luggage · May 09, 2005, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Attempt # 1: 15 minutes to kill some sand giants and attempt 2nd team...start over
Attempt # 2: 25 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 4th team...start over
Attempt # 3: 20 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 3rd team doh!...start over
Attempt # 4: 35 minutes to kill everything up to attempt on 5th team...start over
Attempt # 5: 45 minutes to kill everything up to and including 6th them - success
Attempt # 6: 43 minutes to try and do the bonus mission... fail

Gives up on the bonus and goes to Elonas Reach

Whats that, allmost 3 hours?

This was with PUGs. Attempt 2-5 had 4 people stay in the pug. And some rather good communication and basic tactics, planning and skillswapping.

Ie: bring caster and healer hate skills. Mind the 2 minute respawn. Just take on 1 team at the time. Don't rush. Do the last area counter clockwise - the healer combo last.

[edit]Dunes of despair: 1st time with henches, took some time to get to the Hero tho.
Elonas Reach: 3 tries with pugs and finished it the next day with a mixed guild/pug group

Executioner · May 09, 2005, 12:15 PM // 12:15

hmm.. i can see your pont about it being a grind, but its more of a learning experience..once you have learnt what you have to do in the mission, you just need a good group and before going in make sure everyone knows what they are doing, if you dont know the mission follow someone who does and follow the calls..don't over aggro, thats generally the basis for a mission fail..

I think the only serious grind issue is fighting your mirror, i think i was lucky to kill mine first time, but i think its easyer for warriors. (learn and counter your self)

Romac · May 09, 2005, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Executioner

hmm.. i can see your pont about it being a grind, but its more of a learning experience.

it's definately a learning experience the first time, but to have to redo everything every time you fail is a giant borezor to me...especially the 15 minute giant/devourer warmup at thirsty river. the mission takes long enough to complete without tacking that on to every single attempt.

and i felt the same way when trying to figure out elona's...that whole part with the billion stupid bulls...i never once died to either the bulls or the giants, so they are definately not a challenge...just a great big bore before the mission starts.

i'd much rather them remove the damned giants/devourers, and lower the team's by 10% instead of letting me gain 10%.

Elurian · May 09, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

uh guess I'm rare or something but my pugs did Thirsty first try in about 20 mins. Dunes was a few tries because we were just disorganized on the first try. Elona's took 2 or 3 tries but nothing insanely hard. *shrug* Get two monks or a monk and a henchie monk and call your targets the missions are not that hard.

Luggage · May 09, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Well every map or mission or quest you fail you have to redo from the start - I just don't see how you think this one is special.

It might be too hard with your current settup and group - yes. But it's not different than any other...

animekat · May 09, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

well if you don't want to do it, skip directly to go and select PvP.

Arran_Pellaeon · May 09, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Or the easier way, if you're that sick of fighting all the giants and devourers, is just run past them all to the Ghost so you can start the actual fight.

Chev of Hardass · May 09, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by animekat

well if you don't want to do it, skip directly to go and select PvP.

Bwa ha ha ha

So right, so right

I did all three of them. They all took multiple attempts, but it was so hard I felt like I was doing something. I thought a lot of the later missions were too easy. That could be because I was running with mostly guildies through the later missions.

Mordread · May 09, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

I havent done this particular mission yet, but it reminds me of how yesterday I kept hearing how hard all the missions up to and after Lion's Arch/Kryta were from various people. Myself and my guild steamrolled every mission in one try, killing everything in our path. Our group consisted of: El/Mes, War/Monk, War/Monk, Nec/Mes, Mo/El and a R/something. The point being most missions are very doable if you:

a)roll in a cohesive unit that has complimentary skills
b)call your targets and focus fire

I have yet to encounter one that wasnt doable in one try using these tactics. When people begin to run off and aggro various MOBs w/o calling targets is when everyone dies, hehe.

Keure · May 10, 2005, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Grumble. It definitely sucks that you got a crappy group but to say it's the game's fault for you not being able to beat the missions is just incorrect.

I can understand why you'd want to just pass the easy stuff - may as well, right? However, some content is easier for some groups than for others, so currently you have to pick a group that can pass all the content. Also, if you were allowed to simply bypass the easy content that you have no trouble with all you'd allow people to zerg the harder encounter(s) and get lucky.

nett · May 10, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elurian

uh guess I'm rare or something but my pugs did Thirsty first try in about 20 mins. Dunes was a few tries because we were just disorganized on the first try. Elona's took 2 or 3 tries but nothing insanely hard. *shrug* Get two monks or a monk and a henchie monk and call your targets the missions are not that hard.

same, elona's took 4-5 trys over 2 days, i got dunes and river done within an hour the next day

to OP, if your group fails constantly you probably want to find a new group, no need to try for 10 hours with the same group if its obviously not going to work

Manderlock · May 10, 2005, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Please, this is not grind. The games been out now what, a little under two weeks and people are already complaining about grind?

What they meant by "no grind" is that you dont need to play every day all day to just be on pair with other players.

The ascention wasent even that difficult: river 1 try, dunes 2 trys, and elonas 5 trys.

Stop whinning and GET BETTER AT THE GAME. What ascetion teaches you is that you dont have to fight every damn monster on the map, only fight thoughs that you need to.

P.S. On river you just have to use comon sence. Take one base at a time, kill the priest as soon as possible, and wait for a multiple of 2 before moving on to the next base.

goku19123 · May 10, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

I think some people misjudge grind for a challenge. Grinding is a repititive action that benefits you in some way over a period of time...a challenge kills you over and over because you most likely have no strategy at first, and then develop one.

Jackell · May 10, 2005, 06:53 AM // 06:53

If I can't beat it and have to try it over, it's a grind.

If I have to think and use strategy and timing in a mission, rather than just hack my way through it with ease, it's a grind.

Dude, the quests aren't a grind, their hard missions. Hell, enough people get through it trying only two or three times. My guildies got through all three on the first try, in the same night.

These are missions that you really have to work on, and figure out how to do, and communicate. We say GW is based on skill, and part of that skill is communication and developing a good team, don't we?

Well, these are perfect examples of that in effect. To be honest, I had problems with the Ascension missions. But as soon as I really sat down and created a strategy with a real group, yeah, it was a pug, be we selected who we took carefully, the missions turned out to be a breeze.

Strategic mission do not equal grind.

Aiwahead · May 10, 2005, 07:04 AM // 07:04

Not grind at all, if you ask me.

Realize that Ascension is AN ENTIRE AREA/CHAPTER UNTO ITSELF. It is much akin to going through THE WHOLE OF ASCALON. If you call doing a whole area grind, well then you need to learn what real grind is.

Spend a month working on a SINGLE quest, then you have the right to claim it's grind.

There are about 10 sidequests attached to asenscion if I remember correctly.

Vangor · May 10, 2005, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Yes after doing all of these myself, this is not a grind, I joined with decent but completely random groups, 1 try at Dunes and now I can't even remember what we did there, 1 try at Elona and we still had 15 minutes left, 4 tries at River because we had a few stupid people. Takes 10 minutes maximum at river to get past the giants and into the first battle, the first battle takes two minutes and is incredibly easy, the dual battle works basically the same and if you have people stupid enough, like my first few groups, to go running off well after the first 2 minute mark on the next set of enemies, then it is an obvious reason why you lost, same goes with the trio of bosses. I think in our run it took us about 2:30, 4:30, and almost 6:00 to finish em all, and one of our resets was someone leaving early on so technically, only 3 tries, one was a poor mistake by a stupid group, another was a reset on the server I think most people got, and then we won.

Then, just beat my mirror-image, took four tries after seeing how he would use a few of my skills, and beat him in about a total of 10 minutes through all of the attempts.

So what it boils down to is :

30 minutes running with an unknowing group to Dunes of Despair, about 20 minutes through Dunes itself, then took a small break for studies, back and running to Elona, got there about 10 minutes later, took about 25-30 minutes to finish it altogether I'd say, and took another group to thirsty river, took about 30 minutes cause I was poor with directions and no one had ever been, then took another 30 minutes to get the failures out of the way, and another 30 minutes to run through the mission, th en 10 minutes to fight mirror image and behold, I'm at the Dragon's Lair.

So that is 3:10 to finish this area, 3:30 if you count running from the oasis...

Romac · May 10, 2005, 12:17 PM // 12:17

well i guess i've just had insanely bad luck with groups, because it's the only way i can explain how one guy with a high IQ and tons of gaming and pvp experience (me) could have such a vastly harder time than all of you apparently did.

to the guy that did thirsty river in one try...you must have been with a group of people that had already attempted it a billion times, because there is no way in hell a group of people are going to complete thirsty river the first try.

xakia · May 10, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Seriously, if you can't stand getting past ascension then don't even bother. The missions past ascension are far more difficult. I like it that way. Need something to challenge us don't we? Thank God its not easy.