Curse

quartet4 · May 20, 2005, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I don't like the racist comments either. I usually just try to inject some light or positive comments whenever I start seeing racist or nationalistic comments pop up in the chat. Or if the whole party is really bad, I just stop healing in protest lol.

Spirit Firefly · May 20, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

The only racism i have come across is someone drawing what poorly resembled a swastika on the map.... however games such as WoW on some servers have turned into racial wars due to people not speaking the "server language" in general chat.

Redfang · May 20, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Racism is bad. People who express racism in game should be banned.

Now that I have stated my position on this, let me say that the original poster is a troll. So far he or she has made the following remarks in this thread:

"We also need to teach these idiot americans ..."

"its only american racism that i've been seeing"

"it still offends me to even consider myself 'american'"

"an american team trying to "work" together, is really just in a sense, trying to screw the other team over"

"it's not just the gaming comunity of americans that are racist"

Clean up your own act first sir. Then you can help clean up the game.

super dooper · May 20, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Scupper

Good god, what a group of crybabies. Calling people immature and the declaring you will be adopting 3rd grade tattletale tactics is laughable. There is no need for a "Racist filter". They just need to improve the ignore function. Get over yourselves.

"Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo."

Increase the amount of people you can ignore as well, especially if a majority of the community sees it your way. Most of the people who end up on my ignore list due to aformentioned reasons seem to have the same attitude towards it - not saying you're one of them.

Why some people feel the need to say certain things is beyond me, and as much as I'd like to see them banned - or at least given a stern talking to - I don't see it happening. So for now I've got a nice little ignore list going, and I've left my fair share of districts and groups.

Vangor · May 20, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Shadow and Rusty, you are prime examples of this inability to speak amongst a community because there is a reinforced silence unless a person can already defend themselves, but let me propose this question, if you are so obviously strong and resilient to the world and its ways, why not prove it and lend some of that to protection of another's own well being.

Fact is, it has no place in the world for most of us, should not be granted a place of protection here, and if the stage requires us to "tattle" on people, then so be it. Granted a bit of this may just be friendly hostility, let ArenaNET decide that and people should restrain themselves unless it is obvious ethnocentrism as opposed to merely a sore loser

"You can always tell stupidity because they show strength, rather than use it, no one has ever shown true admiration for a tool until it is used, why should attributes be different"

Madjik · May 20, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

No fees = no credit card. no credit card = 5 year olds running rampant with potty mouths.

Sure, you get this crud in other games too but its more rampant here because there's no way to narrow the age limit. It's a little easier to get mom and dad to buy you a game when they dont have to pay for it every single month.

In my opinion, screenshots and reporting is probably the only answer you need. You can never get rid of all of them, but enough screenshots and reporting and "Maybe" you can lower the population of idiocy.

It's sad, but I dont see any other way of policing such activities. A.net wont put up with it for sure, so we'll just have to see what a couple of bans will do for the comunity.

EDIT:: screenshots can be photoshopped, you may need some other way to prove the racial slurring is taking place since i've seen many a company refuse to use screenshots as proof due to one jerk or another just wanting to cause trouble.

Buzz Hunter · May 20, 2005, 06:19 PM // 18:19

OMG!! Lighten the hell up people....Yes blatant racism is vile and destructive....but when they program a game to say "------ Just won a battle in the HOH, america must win 3 in a row to take from europe." (paraphrasing) Well, it seems to me that the game is TRYING to pit groups agains each other.....its a WAR GAME essentially. The fact that I may want to beat Korea or Europe or Bangla-freakin-desh in a game doesn't make me a racist. Neither does taunting the opposing team. Or saying "i hope we kill the indonesians" within the context of the game.

Now, "I think that _____ need to shower, those people stink."....maybe different story. But the thread starter, in all of his grandios hypocrasy, in defending himself lumped americans together....now HOW THE HELL is that any different than what he is accusing us of. Deal with it....Americans are ****y....dont like it....stick to cricket, or curling, or chasing foxes with horses. I play fair, keep my mouth shut except for the occasional post pvp taunt, but I think the word racism is thrown around a little too easily these days. And please, unless we are practicing revisionist history here, dont act like europeans dont have a history of racism....the english empire was built on the blood of dark skinned people.....ask Ghandi.

Madjik · May 20, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

first, I AM american. Second, alot of what i've seen goes WAYYYYYYYYY beyond simple competitivness.

Third:

Quote:

We also need to teach these idiot americans (of course not all, im just narrowing it down to the idiots) that koreans CAN and DO speak english... i had one person reply to me "It was just a joke, cause i know they can't speak our language"

Xelig · May 20, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Calling people immature and the declaring you will be adopting 3rd grade tattletale tactics is laughable.

People who get indignant and call responsible people who abide by the rules "tattletales" are often those with something to lose/hide. Just an observation.

For the record, whether or not you think racial slurs and attitudes should be reported, they're clearly against the game's rules of conduct: Guild Wars - Rules of Conduct

Quote:

1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

Quote:

3. You may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive language.

I haven't yet witnessed any racial slurs but I will gladly report anyone who thinks it's clever to take their competitiveness a step too far.

Rusty Scupper · May 20, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

People who get indignant and call responsible people who abide by the rules "tattletales" are often those with something to lose/hide. Just an observation.

And it is a poor one. I never called people who abide by the rules tattletales. I called whining babies who take time out of their day to narc on people who dared offend their fragile sensibilities tattletales. The only channel I ever have open or use is my guild channel, so even if I chose to crack on someones nationality no one would hear it but for a select few people. I don't have anything to lose, and I don't feel the need to hide anything from whiners on the internet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

For the record, whether or not you think racial slurs and attitudes should be reported, they're clearly against the game's rules of conduct: Guild Wars - Rules of Conduct

I haven't yet witnessed any racial slurs but I will gladly report anyone who thinks it's clever to take their competitiveness a step too far.

I never said they aren't free to enforce their own rules, go ahead and let them. I didn't see where the were asking for volunteers for the "Anti-racist police force" though. But hey, go for it do-gooders! It will make absolutly no difference. You have fun wasting your time though.

Eet GnomeSmasher · May 20, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

I must have woken up in Nazi Land recently.

When has it become "tattletaling" to report racial slurs? And what are we? In the third grade to use such a word?

Sitting back and doing nothing is not acceptable. It's condoning and encouraging such actions. And if we can't report such stuff what do you expect people to do instead? Ignore it? Go find the person and beat him up?

I seriously wonder about you people coming in here and telling people that they're too sensitive... kind of ironic since you're coming in here obviously sensitive enough to be bothered by the topic.

Rusty Scupper · May 20, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

I must have woken up in Nazi Land recently.

As a Jewish person, I find your comparing this to Nazism offensive. Are you a racist or something?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

And if we can't report such stuff what do you expect people to do instead? Ignore it?

YES. IGNORE IT. This will be as easy as clicking a button if they decide to fix the ignore function.

Weezer_Blue · May 20, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

I find nothing wrong with "kill the koreans!!", or "kill europe!!" on a team... It's competitive fun. Do you say "Boo <insert opposing sports team here>" when you're watching a game on TV? of course!

The problem comes when it gets out of hand. Which it quite often does.

Xelig · May 20, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

And it is a poor one. I never called people who abide by the rules tattletales.

And that was a poor interpretation. I never said "people who abide by the rules". Being responsible goes beyond simply avoiding trouble and sticking your head in the sand when anything untoward or morally wrong happens around you.

Quote:

I called whining babies who take time out of their day to narc on people who dared offend their fragile sensibilities tattletales.

Fragile sensibilities? So you mean you find racist slurs acceptable? You think English-speaking Koreans or Americans of Korean descent should endure baseless slurs against their heritage and culture by some foul-mouthed, 14-year-old goit? "Nobody likes a grass" is for people who are either (a) guilty, or (b) condone the guilty party's actions.

Quote:

The only channel I ever have open or use is my guild channel, so even if I chose to crack on someones nationality no one would hear it but for a select few people. I don't have anything to lose, and I don't feel the need to hide anything from whiners on the internet.

Ok, let me clarify exactly what I was implying: those who call responsible people tattletales are often guilty themselves and/or condone those actions. The fact that you don't object to the racism means you either condone it or find it acceptable: I'll let you figure out how that reflects upon you.

Quote:

I never said they aren't free to enforce their own rules, go ahead and let them. I didn't see where the were asking for volunteers for the "Anti-racist police force" though. But hey, go for it do-gooders! It will make absolutly no difference.

Either you've never played a MMO before or you have absolutely no faith in ArenaNet/NCSoft whatsoever. Companies running MMOs regularly follow up on reports of racist, sexist, homophobic and other hostile activity by players, and people are warned/suspended/banned for it. On the other hand, if you think ArenaNet/NCSoft are going to be able to police the entire game of several hundred-thousand players single-handedly, you're very wrong.

It all boils down to whether you think blatant racism is acceptable or not. *shrug*

Mercury Angel · May 20, 2005, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Wasn't aware that just posting in a topic to raise the awareness of racism within the game actually existing automatically counted as supporting a farfetched idea posted without tact.

You'd be surprised at how many people say there's no racism from the game. Ask a couple of people and quite a few will actually say things like, "Nah, people just wanna beat the other team. It's not like racism, and anybody that says otherwise needs to take their head out of their ---"

Not racism my bottom. The comments get way too personal at times (what does dog-eating have to do with GW? Nothing. Therefore, it was drawn from a bank of IRL sterotypes. Just an example though.), and extend beyond the game for their little jabs.

As for people being too sensitive, or hypocritical, everybody has sexual urges at times, but does it make a person hypocritical not to wish to act on them constantly, regardless of location or company? Eating would likely be more efficient with some foods with your hands, yet at those times, why do you use a fork or spoon (or spork, or whatever

)? Aren't you this totally emotionless, rockhard outer shelled, invulnerable epitome of perfection? I'd imagine not.
You obviously accept that there is some validation to social nuances, or you wouldn't engage in them, lest you be a hypocrite.

There's a pretty distinct line between:

"You're whole plan/idea is foolish and bound to failure, and I refuse to take part in it"

and

"You ----ing moron, you're a stupid ---- so I'm out of here. Go to hell."

Also, on a related issue...
The censor is there for a reason people.

Those of us overly sensitive people that use them, use them because we don't want to hear some of the verbal garbage coming out of other's mouths. Those of you that like to use such trash, and listen to it, may turn your censors off. You're not smart or clever using censor bypass, for switching two letters in your word consistently so that the censor won't catch it, for using 'ph' instead of the letter 'f'.
You're not being censored, in actuality: indeed, if you turn off the censor, all of the ----'s no longer stay ----'s, even in the chat history. You can always use the words, and it's an accepted part of the game. However, it's also accepted that not everybody finds them appropriate, and so the personal censor exists for those people, and it only affects their screens.
You can use your words, and anybody who doesn't mind will most likely have turned their censor off by now, and they'll hear it, and you'll hear it, and it should be enough.

As to the screenshots, don't take too much personal significance to them, I'll screenshot just about anything. Last MMORPG I played, I racked up over a gig of screenshots, stored them on CD-R's, then erased them, and took some more. Just something fun to do.
Always nice to be able to say, "Hey, I remember that", and spend a half hour looking through them, and then pull out pictures of relavent information.
I just wish they didn't store as huge bitmaps >.< A little automatic compression would be a welcome thing to me.

Now, back on topic, I'd also prefer if people not use the, "... no worse than _____'s community" excuse for behaviour, or anything in the game. Wasn't Guild Wars supposed to be flaunted as revolutionary, some unique game? Why then is it that every time someone makes a comment about one of the negatives of guild wars, somebody chimes in, "I used to play _____, and trust me, this is nothing. It's much worse in _____, and we're lucky it's like this in Guild Wars." Yes, we're all thankful it's not worse than it could be, but many of us also feel that it isn't a point to stop at just because it's better than almost anyone else. Why shouldn't Guild Wars make it a point to strive to improve not just to meet other MMORPG's in various aspects, but to go above and beyond them? That'd be truly revolutionary then, wouldn't it?

3 semi-rants out of my system in one post >.>

Xelig · May 20, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Scupper

YES. IGNORE IT. This will be as easy as clicking a button if they decide to fix the ignore function.

Oh, wait... that's genius!

And, in future, white kids will be allowed to run through school halls screaming racist obscenities at the top of their lungs. Kids of other races will be issued with earplugs.

Racism is against the rules; the individuals who break those rules should be banned, plain and simple, just like anyone who breaks the rules against botting, hacking, cheating or exploiting. Telling the victims to ignore it is saying, "Hey everyone, come play Guild Wars, the game where racism is acceptable!"

twotimes · May 20, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

As a minority twice over, I take solace in knowing that, as far as we can tell humans started out brown, and will become brown in the end through mixing.

It's funny to see people defend children for being potty mouths and racists. This should be the flag to start a revolution of rationale across this community, and into the real world.

The acceptance contributes to it never being defeated. If someone makes a racial comment around me, I have no qualms putting him or her on the spot. Someone said previously that it's caused by ignorance and stupidity. It's much more than that; it is a systemic problem that will have to be addressed eventually.

50 years ago in the U.S. we needed the civil rights movement to start acting straight. 120 years ago we almost annihilated an entire breed of people in this country. I say breed, because that's what Indians are, black, white, brown, red, yellow, whatever, they are breeds not "races". You can't beat anything if you can't define it correctly.

The original poster is actually correct in stating Americans are idiots. 41% of the U.S. population is either illiterate or functioning illiterate. How can you expect them to understand such a problem if they're unable to read or understand the issue. Being illiterate doesn't make you stupid, but a lack of vocabulary puts one at such a disadvantage they are unable to participate. The entire system is messed up just by the labeling.

Here’s example: “My friend at school, he’s black, was cracking everybody up today.”

Just listen to the people around you in their day-to-day discussions, and you will hear this. As if the fact that his friend is black is a necessary description. Also, every governmental piece of paper we fill out has a label. A label that is decisive and incorrect. Most people that fill out the African-american, native American, Korean American are indeed American. First and foremost almost exclusively american. What comes first though? Even though they maybe 15th generation American, they are still described as something else first.

You can make the argument that it is indeed helpful to minorities as far as specific programs are concerned, but otherwise it’s just a separator. Take it off all forms that do not include the census or any cataloguing endeavor. If you continue to grind the stone on the little things it will shape it into the proper form eventually.

Just thoughts from a concerned human.

2

Rusty Scupper · May 20, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

And that was a poor interpretation. I never said "people who abide by the rules".

Yes you did. I even quoted you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

Fragile sensibilities? So you mean you find racist slurs acceptable? You think English-speaking Koreans or Americans of Korean descent should endure baseless slurs against their heritage and culture by some foul-mouthed, 14-year-old goit? "Nobody likes a grass" is for people who are either (a) guilty, or (b) condone the guilty party's actions.

Ok, let me clarify exactly what I was implying: those who call responsible people tattletales are often guilty themselves and/or condone those actions. The fact that you don't object to the racism means you either condone it or find it acceptable

Neither actually. I believe strongly in the idea that you can say whatever you want, however you want, to whoever you want. Just keep in mind everyone else can do the same, and they are likely to disagree with you if you are a racist. I understand there are terms that limit speach in the game, and the mods are free to enforce them, as I have already said. I have no worries, as I don't make racist/nationalist comments, despite your feeble effort to paint me as a racist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

It all boils down to whether you think blatant racism is acceptable or not. *shrug*

No, it really doesn't.

Rusty Scupper · May 20, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelig

Oh, wait... that's genius!

And, in future, white kids will be allowed to run through school halls screaming racist obscenities at the top of their lungs. Kids of other races will be issued with earplugs.

That is exactly what I said! Videogames apply to real life!

Moron.

Eet GnomeSmasher · May 20, 2005, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Scupper

Moron.

Ah your true colours come out. There's no reason you'd defend these kiddies using racist language unless you were one of them too. Of course I'm making a big assumption but judging from your posts, I don't think I'm far off.