Curse

cc.pyro · May 29, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Anet, you have been good to us in the past about stopping exploits and unfair game practices (ie. Sigil, dye remover, cost of fur), and I hope you do something about this. Today I had my second encounter with people who leech or ruin an entire mission for the group.

First Experience:
While doing the mission with the Scepter of Orr one of the group members kept dying and was being very rude and obscene. He became angry with the monk and the rest of the group because he kept running ahead and dying. We told him to stop being stupid and to stay with the group. Well, he didn't listen, to say the least. The second we got into battle he grabs the scpeter from the ground and runs off and hides with it. We didn't realize until we had finished the battle and by then we couldn't track him. The mission that we speant a half hour on was ruined because of this one persons anger.

Second Experience: While doing the first mission after ascension on group member after the first area went AFK. He was a warrior. Well, I think we all know how this ends. He goes AFK from Ranger area to Warrior area. We get a mob to kill him while he's still afk so he can't capture the skill. Well about 30 seconds later he comes back with some sorry excuse about moving furniture or something. The problem is had we not all died, because another group member was also afk for 3-4 parts, he would have recieved credit for completing the mission. How is this fair for all of us who fought the entire mission? It's not.

My Proposal:
I propose that they install a group kick system. The leader of the group would first click on that person and have an option to announce that he wanted that person removed from the group. That person would see this and decide whether to straighten out or get kicked. At this point the other group members would recieve a pop-up asking whether or not they wish to remove this person. Once everyone else in the group voted yes the leader would get a confirmation box. He could send a final warning to that person and then if the person still acted foolish then he would be kicked and ideally replaced my a henchman of the same main build.

One Problem:
Someone brought this to my attention. This kick system could be abused, however I don't see it being a major problem. What someone said was that a group of friends could go out with some random person, do what they needed to do then kick that person. I don't see why they would do this, but it could happen, which is why Anet would have to come up with a solution.

Conclusion:
There has to be something done about this. If not the game is subject to people joining and then AFKing through the entire game. Companies that powerlevel people could use this tactic to get people through the entire game. Anet would have to figure out a way to prevent abuse or realize that the good outweighs the bad in this situation.

Rajamic · May 29, 2005, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by cc.pyro

One Problem:
Someone brought this to my attention. This kick system could be abused, however I don't see it being a major problem. What someone said was that a group of friends could go out with some random person, do what they needed to do then kick that person. I don't see why they would do this, but it could happen, which is why Anet would have to come up with a solution.

So you want to replace one form of griefing with another? I know I sure wouldn't join any group that had a bunch of people from the same guild if this system were implemented. I work with them, they kick me, they get the credit, and I don't.

Gs-Cyan Bloodbane · May 29, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

why would anyone kick you for helping them? especially a guild. Word would spread that guild does that and no one would want to join them or party with them.

it would be a very self defeating thing.

I had a similar experiance in surmia where despite being told not to attack or aggro the bearers they ran up and attacked them and then insisted they didn't aggro them. we just left them dead and they left. had they any brains they could have stuck around even dead and gotten credit but they got to angry.

I would love to see a kick system for in misson. I really don't see people gettting kicked at the end of things anyway. it ends up hurting them more then helping

Mordread · May 29, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gs-Cyan Bloodbane

why would anyone kick you for helping them? especially a guild.

You must be new to the wonderfully vicious world of MMO's. People will pull anything and everything they can get away with, and trust me this scenario would be very common:

You join a group comprised mostly of another guild, say in the HOH.

You help the team win HoH.

Right before the chest opens, said guild kicks you so you dont get the uber loot drop that they need to help them get their sigil, buy capes, etc.

psycore · May 29, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I would like to see something like this implemented as well. There have been a few instances where people commit themselves to a mission and then either go afk or run off to do other things (like farm the goddamn drakes in gates of kryta) or behave like idiots (not ressurecting or healing party, running off with bonus items, agroing then training mobs, etc). The leader of the group should have the power to remove the offending player(s) and dump them back into town.

KuTeBaka · May 29, 2005, 09:45 PM // 21:45

a rere drops, its a max dmage sword, everybody in the group kicks the person cuz they want the rare.

Levian Lain · May 29, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordread

You must be new to the wonderfully vicious world of MMO's. People will pull anything and everything they can get away with, and trust me this scenario would be very common:

You join a group comprised mostly of another guild, say in the HOH.

You help the team win HoH.

Right before the chest opens, said guild kicks you so you dont get the uber loot drop that they need to help them get their sigil, buy capes, etc.

I think this should only be in missions and outside areas, not the HoH or Arena.

Chev of Hardass · May 29, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

It won't work. Sorry.

Here's why,
Firey Dragon Swords that drop.
Gold/purple Giants Boots.
Getting kicked at the end of the mission out of spite.
Let's not even get into the HoH.

No way no how. Nice try. I agree this is a problem. But, a better answer is to boot those people from the game for a week.

Still, that would be exploited.

I like to do PvE with my guild, but there are not always 8 to play the underworld with us. Do you think there would be anyone wanting to fill the 8th spot in our group? No way. Unless, that one person was the party leader.

Navaros · May 30, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

something should be done about leechers who are not AFK too. those who keep dying constantly due to sheer stupidity and refusal to follow orders. or because they are not infused on missions where they need to be infused

i say the Party Leader should have sole discretion over who to kick. he made the party, so he should be the only decision maker in terms of removing a member of that party. if people don't trust a particular Party Leader with that responsibility, then they can make their own parties or join one with a leader who they do trust

votekicking won't work because most players in PVE have no idea what they are doing, and would abuse the votekick function

Aaaaagh · May 30, 2005, 07:55 AM // 07:55

I agree with you on how much this issue sucks. However, I cannot think of a viable solution and I don't really think the solution you propsed would work very well. I guess your best bet is to remember the hosers and not group with them again, and remember the good players and try to group with them, or find a good guild.

Brett Kuntz · May 30, 2005, 07:59 AM // 07:59

There's already a method to fix these issues, it's called pressing ALT-F4.

Numa Pompilius · May 30, 2005, 11:25 AM // 11:25

If you guys have played any team FPS, you've seen votekick in action - pretty much all team-based FPS's have votekick. I've played tons of FPS, and only once have I been votekicked - by a cheater guild, who were numerous enough to push through the vote.

A votekick takes several seconds. First someone has to type "votekick <players name>", then a given percentage (all players in the group except the guy being voted usually) of the group has to "vote yes". Often the person calling the vote has to give a reason for the kick as well, e.g. "intentionally harms teammates" or "away from keyboard".
If there's a rare drop, the player who's got the drop has probably at least 15 seconds to pick up the drop before he's kicked. If it still turns out to be a problem, one could also add a 30 second delay before the kick takes effect.

Yes, votekick is abused. People call votekicks on eachother in FPS's out of boredom, spite, stupidity, immaturity, or as a joke, but usually the vote doesn't pass unless someone has made himself truly despised, because you have to get all or pretty much all of the other members of the team to vote for the kick.

Another possibility would be to make the team leader a real team leader, so that he could kick people freely. That would be pretty guaranteed to be heavily abused by the griefers/immature kiddies, though.

Vusak · May 30, 2005, 12:21 PM // 12:21

the problem stems from pickup groups getting some idiot who ruins it for everyone else.

however its not a big deal if it happens at the start of a mission/quest, but it IS a problem when it happens halfway through or at the end etc.

at the start - you can just restart without them, not a big loss.

after that, youve put in time and effort, and it really is a waste of time to have to restart an hour long (or more) mission.

frequently the idiot isnt doing enough damage in the earlier easier parts of the missions, so party's can get through, however its later on in the harder areas that the idiot makes it really difficult.

now in the case with multiple idiots in one group, that group will just not get past the earlier easy parts of a mission, so as before, you can restart without having put much effort in - no big loss.

so the key problem here is singular idiots in pickup groups.

a votekick option almost guarantees to target this particular case, where everyone else wants to kick the idiot who is ruining things for them in the harder parts of the missions.

---

now, how many times do you find yourself joining up with a pickup group that has a singular idiot vs. how many times you join a pickup group with 7 other guild members?

honestly, even if it was guaranteed that EVERY single guild was a bunch of arseholes wanting to just exploit non-guild players by kicking them before completing missions, how many times would you face that situation?

no matter what number you wanna quote, i utterly guarantee you have greater odds of finding a pickup group made up of different guild players that might include an idiot.

---

so in conclusion, this idea at worst, would still improve the enjoyment of the game for just about everyone - except idiots (whom we dont care about).

(note: im using the word idiots to describe people who not only do stupid/selfish things, but repeatedly do stupid/selfish things even when asked/told not to, or asked/told how to do it easier/better/more successfully)

toastgodsupreme · May 30, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Another possibility would be to make the team leader a real team leader, so that he could kick people freely. That would be pretty guaranteed to be heavily abused by the griefers/immature kiddies, though.

And in response to such situations, I would just lead the team myself to avoid being kicked. No biggie.

SOT · May 30, 2005, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Yet another argument ammunition box for henchmen

cc.pyro · May 30, 2005, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuTeBaka

a rere drops, its a max dmage sword, everybody in the group kicks the person cuz they want the rare.

Simple Solution: Any items that dropped for you before you were kicked appear in the unclaimed items box; problem solved.

And I did not intend this to be for PvP, since if you have an idiot on your team you will find out soon enough when your team gets owned. Besides most PvP games don't last for as long as a PvE mission.

Mystical · May 30, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

A votekick takes several seconds. First someone has to type "votekick <players name>", then a given percentage (all players in the group except the guy being voted usually) of the group has to "vote yes". Often the person calling the vote has to give a reason for the kick as well, e.g. "intentionally harms teammates" or "away from keyboard".
If there's a rare drop, the player who's got the drop has probably at least 15 seconds to pick up the drop before he's kicked. If it still turns out to be a problem, one could also add a 30 second delay before the kick takes effect.

I was about to post the exact same thing. Perfect solution! The reason would be logged and ANet can easly pull up the kick reasons if someone is being reported as an abuser. Nine times out of ten, the leaders that kick to get that rare item will put something stupid into the reason.

Inziladun · May 30, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

The only solution I could think of is to allow Party leaders to kick players who are AFK. For example, if you havn't touched your computer in 10-15 minutes, you can be kicked by the Party Leader.

This can't really be abused (at least not much), but if you're going AFK for 10-15 minutes, why would you start up a mission? :S

Chev of Hardass · May 30, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

I am not convinced on the votekick thing, I play pickup groups. I like the gamble. I will probably stop playing if I start getting kicked by guilds that let me fill out the team, and then kick me at the end of a mission. I also play with my guild alot.

Last night, again, it was 4 of us and two idiots. But we moved on. Even with the two idiots we had no problem getting done what we needed to. And I don't think the two idiots were that bad. They were rangers trying to lead the way into battle. (That is the Warriors job

, Rangers) So we resed them after the battle. They were pissed, but they didn't help the team enough to res them out of the center of a crowd of MOBs.

My point, we were all ready to kick them and not bring them on our way. But, what they were doing really did not deserve them being kicked. They got almost no EXP and had to sit out on the fun.

Sometimes a group that is close will have higher standards than can be expected. We use teamspeak and no one wants to type anything to the people that are not on teamspeak, so they just do what they think we want. We call them idiots over teamspeak and kick them at the next outpost. If we had access to a vote kick, we would be unnecessarily kicking people.

Sure, I have finished the game storyline, but I have a new way to be. If the team leader (or Someone) doesn not keep the target calling going, I do whatever I feel like. If no one follows my targets, I give up calling them. Most of the time the group dies and I laugh at them over the chat channel. Then I leave the group and they miss out.

Magus · May 30, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

I agree. I've had numerous experiences like the second one (and 99% of those people who claim to be moving furniture, going to the bathroom, etc. are lying. No one joins a party and then immediately goes afk the second the mission starts.) I've suggested a kick function as well, since this type of afk abuse is worse than botting (which is explicit cheating), as it directly harms the group being leecehd off of.