Curse

Tiyuri · Jun 01, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

This was originally posted on the gwonline.net forums,
you can find people's opinions etc in the thread here
http://forums.gwonline.net/showthrea...0&page=1&pp=10

I thought i'd post it here too in the hope that Anet might see it.

Presently, the Guild Halls arn't used for all that much, sure they're a nice meeting place for your guild, sure they're used for Guild battles, but there is a huge missed oppotunity here.

I've heard all the suggestions from a guild bank to customising the flags to the guild emblem, these are good but I'm suggesting something a little more radical.

How about the Guild Halls contain an optional PVE practice minigame, where you can set the guild hall to spawn "waves" of monsters and see how long your guild can survive, the waves would increase in difficulty and size until the team is erradicated with boss monsters being spawned at the end of each wave.

The setup would be something similar to UT2004's invasion gametype, with mobs getting potentially huge.
Of course these monsters would yeild no XP and 0 drops, in place of XP would be points, this would allow for a high score board to be implemented much like the guild ranking board. It would be good fun and good practice to see how far you can take your team, something to do when bored, a place to try out new weapons, builds, strategies, teamwork.

On top of this perhaps a monster unlocking system could be implemented, where by the guild hall only spawns monsters that you've previously killed. This way no suprises are ruined and it encourages teams to go out hunting in search of rare monsters.

Well just throwing up an idea, tell me what you think.

-Tiyuri

Juhanah · Jun 01, 2005, 10:56 AM // 10:56

I really like this idea. I hope Arenanet will take this suggestion.

Superdan · Jun 01, 2005, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juhanah

I really like this idea. I hope Arenanet will take this suggestion.

Agreed, that's an awesome idea...might even convince me to recuit for my little one person guild lol.

Asplode · Jun 01, 2005, 11:33 AM // 11:33

I totally agree. A lot of times my guild will come up with a skill combo that they aren't exactly sure will work or not in practice, even if it looks pretty on paper, and there's really no blank canvas to try new things out on. Something like this is exactly what we need, but I'd like a bit more customization options on what you face.

azunder · Jun 01, 2005, 12:02 PM // 12:02

It will really make the PvE guilds happy.

Stur · Jun 01, 2005, 12:08 PM // 12:08

This is a great idea and long with guilds being able to have PvP practice matches (4on4 from the same guild or something) it would make Guild halls allot more attractive.

efiloN · Jun 01, 2005, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Yes!
Please ArenaNet, make it happen

funbun · Jun 01, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Wow, exellent idea. Get on GW support as tell them this.

Tiyuri · Jun 01, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

have done

hoping for a reply soon

Silmor · Jun 01, 2005, 02:03 PM // 14:03

'a place to try out new weapons, builds, strategies, teamwork' - PvE areas all warrant builds specifically designed to combat that particular area, so all you could develop in this mode would be builds suitable only for this mode. Underworld and Fissure already exist to enforce teamwork (and have particular builds custom-made to play most efficiently there), so this mode would offer nothing new other than 'delivering mobs to your doorstep' for those too lazy to seek them out in their natural habitat.

PvE is all about knowing what's coming and preparing accordingly, so there's no need to 'practice' for it other than doing the mission/quest you intend to beat, and this sort of mini-game wouldn't accomplish said practicing anyway since this mode will not be representative in any way for that which you are 'practicing' for. A ladder that indicates who is best in defeating scripted monsters will probably be appreciated by a lot of people who consider something like that a significant achievement, but if you look at the amount of areas/variety for PvE set next to the areas/variety for PvP, I'd surely hope ArenaNet will work on more PvP options in guild halls and other parts of the game before even starting to consider this.

Finally, 'unlocking monsters' for this mode - who will you base this on? Party leader, who may have seen much more monsters than other teammates, thus leading to spoiling anyway? Or the lowest common denominator of 'unlocked monsters', severely limiting the selection of monsters unless the entire group has been together since the Academy? And if you only unlocked the Charr so far, how would that reflect on ranking for any 'PvE ladder', since you'll see a different challenge than other PvE guilds trying to reach the 'top'?

Ashleigh McMahon · Jun 01, 2005, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Wow.

Really awesome idea.

I would REALLY Love this to be put into game.

I can just imagine, Infernal Worms from beta just popping up everywhere, now, that would be cool.

10/10 Idea, superb

Regards, Ashleigh.

Tiyuri · Jun 01, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

How would it reflect the ladder

Different monsters would be worth different points, unlocking these monsters is part of the work required to get a high score

As for not knowing what's coming, isn't that the point? You never know what you'll be up against in a pvp game, this enforces the need to adapt!

talonrid · Jun 01, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Love the idea. The unlocking part needs a bit of work, but love the idea.

Silmor · Jun 01, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

As for not knowing what's coming, isn't that the point? You never know what you'll be up against in a pvp game, this enforces the need to adapt!

But you know exactly what's coming. If there's Mergoyles, they're going to cast Spirit Shackles + Mind Wrack on you. If this is intended as a drill for PvP, make it proper PvP battles against dual-classed AI (suggested someplace else already), and even then it's just something to whet people's appetite for real PvP (which is not a bad thing at all).
If this is intended as a mode where you slaughter lots of mindless monsters in PvE style as it seems to be, then it has nothing to do with PvP.

The surprise in PvP is hardly what sort of primary classes you face or what colour they put on their armour, but what those people come up with character and player skill-wise. In PvE you know which monsters use which skills and when, how they respond to your presence in aggro range, etc. If the wave-spawn is predetermined, people will know exactly what to expect, as in PvE, and they'll make specific builds for this, making this pretty much the same as any other mission or explorable area. If it's random, the luck factor becomes too large for any ladder to be respectable. In the end there's simply not that much merit in defeating computer-controlled AI, and there's already an overwhelming amount of it present in-game, so I don't see how this will add much to Guild Wars.

Tiyuri · Jun 01, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Us PVE players would like something to do once we've completed the missions, it wouldnt spawn totally random npcs, but set (non random) mixes of them, this makes them a challenge - different from that of the exploreable areas, whilst still being fair enough for a ladder.
It would be fun to see how far you can get your team, it WOULD be good practice - it would require coordination, dismantling mixes of many different types of spells and attacks, a build that can adapt to any combination of npc. Something for the PVE players to work at, as presently there isn't all THAT much to keep a pve only player playing!

Not everyone is a hardcore PVP player, some of us play for fun - not the glory of having our name closest to the top of a webpage, and this concept is just that, fun.
The reward is seeing how far you can go, just like old arcade games long ago except with a modern, complex apparoach.

Some of us enjoy battling NPCs and monsters, playing cooperatively against AI.
Perhaps for some of the top guilds or players who invest vasts amount of time this may not be that much of a practice, but what about the more casual players - why not cater for us both?

Monsters would also go up in level and party sizes would grow until even the best players are completely ripped to shreds, this makes it challenging for everyone and judging by the support expressed here,

gwonline.net
http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=348490

guild-hall.net
http://www.guild-hall.net/forum/show...0&page=1&pp=25

Lots of people would play, many would invest time in forming a guild and getting a guild hall just so they can play.

It is NOT intended as a drill for pvp, its a game in itself, just for a lot of us who dont invest vast amounts of time learning about every skill and attribute in the game - this WOULD be great practice.

ElevenBravo · Jun 01, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Id rather the devs spend thier time making it so you can scrimmage your own guild in a gvg match instead of fighting waves of endless useless mobs.

Silmor · Jun 01, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Perhaps for some of the top guilds or players who invest vasts amount of time this may not be that much of a practice, but what about the more casual players - why not cater for us both?

Casual players seeking practice aren't casual players anymore, especially not considering the PvE ladder idea - that means competition, and competition evokes pretty much the opposite of casual. For casual players there's already a vast number of areas and missions to explore, with more coming up in free updates, and even more coming up in expansions. If PvE is your thing, and you enjoy killing AI, there's nothing to stop you from creating a new character with other classes and skills to give you a somewhat fresh playing experience again. Casual players are generously catered for already.

Quote:

Not everyone is a hardcore PVP player, some of us play for fun - not the glory of having our name closest to the top of a webpage, and this concept is just that, fun.

Then why are you suggesting something that pretty much amounts to the closest you can get to 'hardcore PvE', with a PvE ladder where people will battle to get their name closest to the top of a webpage? People who enjoy PvP play it for fun just as well, and not everyone takes it as seriously as people make it out to be.

Quote:

It is NOT intended as a drill for pvp, its a game in itself, just for a lot of us who dont invest vast amounts of time learning about every skill and attribute in the game - this WOULD be great practice.

Great practice for what, learning every skill and attribute in the game in order to be better at this 'hardcore PvE', in essence investing vast amounts of time just the same? I'm certain this will be popular, but I seriously doubt it'll be any more popular than adding new PvE explorable areas and missions. It's just more PvE content - ofcourse PvE fanatics will cheer for that, and PvE fanatics are already getting served - two new areas in the works for the summer.

Tiyuri · Jun 01, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Casual players seeking practice aren't casual players anymore, especially not considering the PvE ladder idea - that means competition, and competition evokes pretty much the opposite of casual. For casual players there's already a vast number of areas and missions to explore, with more coming up in free updates, and even more coming up in expansions. If PvE is your thing, and you enjoy killing AI, there's nothing to stop you from creating a new character with other classes and skills to give you a somewhat fresh playing experience again. Casual players are generously catered for already.

I completely disagree, you can be competative and still be casual, i do not dedicated vast amounts of time to the game, i would not say im hardcore, but its nice to attempt to win.

Quote:

Then why are you suggesting something that pretty much amounts to the closest you can get to 'hardcore PvE', with a PvE ladder where people will battle to get their name closest to the top of a webpage? People who enjoy PvP play it for fun just as well, and not everyone takes it as seriously as people make it out to be.

It's not hardcore pve, its something that the pve players can keep playing, it wouldnt take a huge time investment, it would be entertaining, jump in - jump out action.

Quote:

reat practice for what, learning every skill and attribute in the game in order to be better at this 'hardcore PvE', in essence investing vast amounts of time just the same? I'm certain this will be popular, but I seriously doubt it'll be any more popular than adding new PvE explorable areas and missions. It's just more PvE content - ofcourse PvE fanatics will cheer for that, and PvE fanatics are already getting served - two new areas in the works for the summer.

No great practice for those of us who DONT know exactly what we're doing, who need work on coordination, using our skills at the right time, etc.

It sounds like you're a PVP player who doesn't really play PVE and thinks that if they add more to PVE it will somehow ditract from your PVP experience, that's up to you, its up to you if youd rather play the game to win than for fun, if you're a 'hardcore' gamer. But there are those of us who just want to have fun, and we would find this minigame fun - thus it would be nice to have it implemented, as simple as that.

Ordas · Jun 01, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

An interesting idea. perhaps you unlock more monsters with high amounts of Fame or Gold. Or maybe, you need to collect 100s of pieces of whatever that monster drops (you wanna spawn mergoyls? supply 200 mergoyl skulls)... of course that last idea is starting to learn towards grind which I'm sure people will complain about, even in a completely optional area :P

I think it would be really fun. I love playing the "undead hordes" quest because there are just waves and waves of monsters. If I could set that up in the comfort of my own guild hall, it would be excellent. Even if its not that great for practice and if there's no rating system, i still think people would like it. Look at Starcraft. It seems that 90% of the custom games are just "unlimited weapons. 91827981729384782934 monsters to kill. go.". You'd think it'd get boring, but apparently it doesn't :P

A Guild arena for PvP practice would be great as well.

Silmor · Jun 01, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

If you want to keep it casual, drop the ladder suggestion - the only thing a ladder would offer is competition, and competition simply isn't casual by its very definition - participants can play casually, but that has nothing to do with the setup: people who want to casually play PvP will go to arenas, for instance. A ladder would invite cutting edge build design tailored exclusively for dealing with waves of numerous random enemies (which in itself is a fixed aspect to count on already). Just like arenas are casual PvP without a ladder, this would be casual PvE without a ladder, and the entire PvE content right now is casual already.

To clarify, I'm a PvE player, otherwise I wouldn't bother criticising this suggestion since it doesn't affect PvP. I just understand the frustration a lot of the PvP'ers are feeling, and updates for their favourite portion of the game seem way overdue. Like you said, ArenaNet should try to cater to both, and right now it seems PvE is getting all the love. PvPers are similarly just trying to have fun, just because they enjoy the game in a different way as PvE'ers doesn't mean they're not entitled to it as well.