Curse

The IOU · May 25, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

I doubt it is space. It is $$$. It's called making money.

They don't want you to buy 1 copy and have your dad, mom, and brother playing their own char. If they want their own 4 chars they want them to pay 50 a piece.

They don't want you to buy 1 copy and have 6 chars, 1 for each profession. Or 8 chars, 1 for each profession and 2 pvp chars. They want you to consider paying another 50 for the extra 4 chars. And no one will even admit it here but I bet there are ppl out there that have done it.

You can sit here and complain about it, but THEY know they have 6 professions and based on that information they ONLY gave you 4 chars...what do you think they were thinking???

That's just business........

Epinephrine · May 25, 2005, 06:59 PM // 18:59

I'd buy another copy if I could link the two, so that I could easily pass items and the two were unlocking skills and items together. I'd also pay for extra slots if that were an option. I hate only having 3 PvE characters on the go, as I like to be able to pop back and adventure with friends with a character at their level, and while you can select a new secondary, you can't change your primary, so I'd like more slots...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdwoody

I can think of a few things you're missing, quests and their states, missions completed (with bonuses) and the map.

That being said I'd like 8 characters, but could live with 6...

I can't see why they'd limit PvP characters, or even count them as the same type of storage. PvP characters don't unlock any map, don't need to track qusts etc... they really don't have much to them. I think we should be able to have a whole pile of PvP characters stored away, so when we need a monk for example we don't have to re-build him if we'd already played him.

jdwoody · May 25, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

I can't see why they'd limit PvP characters, or even count them as the same type of storage. PvP characters don't unlock any map, don't need to track qusts etc... they really don't have much to them. I think we should be able to have a whole pile of PvP characters stored away, so when we need a monk for example we don't have to re-build him if we'd already played him.

Great idea! I could easily live with 4 PvE characters...

theclam · May 25, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormunda

Also I don't think your talking server HD costs there, that seems more like PC HD costs. And nothing about a Raid HD and any backup facility expansion.
The costs are far higher than you quoted.

But however, I cannot see how 1 character can possible be anywhere even remotely near 10 meg.
Lets see:
Account data - They need to store this no matter how many characters. This hold your unlocked lists etc.
Character data -
Name (20-30 bytes)
Lev (1 byte)
skill flags (with the ability to change 2nd class, 6 x 75 = 450 bit flags, lets say 60 bytes)
Gender (1 bit flag)
abilities (8 bytes)
Skills selected (8 bytes)
Equipment worn (7 x doublebyte if just ID, else see below)
Equipment in bags (45 x doublebyte if just ID, else see below)
if items are not an id ref - which i do not think they are:
base item id (2 bytes)
prefix id + value (3 bytes)
Sufix if + Value (3 bytes)
Base stats (2 bytes)
value (1 byte)
inate ability + value (3 bytes)
lets say 20 bytes for an item to be on the safe side. Max storage = 45 in bags + 7 equipped = 52. 52x20 = 1040bytes.

Can't see how the whole character can come to more than a few kb in size.

I can see an issue when you multiply this by the amount of players mind!
1 million players all adding 2 characters can be a lot of extra database records - lol. But 10mb a character is WAY-OFF the mark!

You're forgetting the map. Each character has to have a bit for every single section of the map that can be individually revealed. If a map is, say 1024x1024 in size (which seems small to me, considering the size of GW's world), that's about 13K of data.

Still, I deliberately shot high.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dyeeo

You are forgetting about overhead and installation.

Still, even with that, how much would it cost? They'd just have to add a few hard drives to their existing database servers. Even taking into effect the cost of installation (which would be very low, it's easy to install hard drives) and testing (which would take up a moderate amount of time and money), you wouldn't be looking at very much money. $10,000 is less than a thousand box sales, assuming they get >$10 per box. Considering that this game has been very successful, I'd say that it's very possible.

Kossan · May 26, 2005, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by The IOU

I doubt it is space. It is $$$. It's called making money

They don't want you to buy 1 copy and have 6 chars, 1 for each profession. Or 8 chars, 1 for each profession and 2 pvp chars. They want you to consider paying another 50 for the extra 4 chars. And no one will even admit it here but I bet there are ppl out there that have done it.

That's just business........

I would be happy to pay it and i'm sure many players share my oppinion, the problem which arises is that you can't integrate your 2 accounts and thus have to use 2 separate storage systems, take up 2 spaces in you guild etc

I find the solution fairly simple; allow players to merge 2 separate accounts into 1, everybody will be happy; the players who desire more space get it and Anet get extra $$$

deathwearer · May 26, 2005, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

I don't see why the limit is at 4. It's definately not a technical reason.

Let's assume that each character takes about 10 megs of space (which is very high). You can get a 400GB hard drive for $260. 400GB is 400,000 megs (going by the skewed 1GB=1000MB formula that hard drive manufacturers use). That means that for $260, they could store 40,000 characters. It costs 0.65 cents for them to store one character. Even at 100 megs per character, that would be 4,000 characters at 6.5 cents per character.

sorry but.... what about the backup system and all? if one HD crash, 4k character get deleted?

and i doubt they have the same kind of hardware you use at home.

Aaaaagh · May 26, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

More slots, please. I see no reason (well, other then memory storage) to limit the number of characters so severly. Im a freak that HAS to play everything, so I have 4/4 slots taken by RP characters now, and Im gonna have to delete a few to make more once I am finished(?) with them. Then, when I want to PvP..sigh..it just aint right...

On a positive note, you HAVE to figure the dev's will increase the number of char slots with the first expansion.

Celes Tial · May 26, 2005, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahara Zeppelin

Well I wouldn't complain, most MMORPG's only allow 1 character per account.

I dont know one single MMORPG that limits characters to one per account. SWG is one per server, but not account.

I would like to have 6 slots myself. I have 3 PvE characters: Mo/Me, E/Mo and Wa/N... I would like to try a ranger as well, but cant, because I need the last slot for PvP experiments. I dont want to delete any of my PvE characters, unless they add the option to create a level 20 roleplay character who has access to all unlocked skills.

BahamutKaiser · May 27, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

FFXI limits you to 1 character and service for 13 dollars a month, and an extra dollar for each additional character.

If you want more, pay for more, it isn't hard to buy another copy for 4 more characters, it may seem hard to switch items, but if you have 2 computers then you can do it yourself, if you don't then it's still not impossible. Do you want 4 more characters or not?, can you deal with item transfer issues or not?

I personally think it wouldn't be so bad for players to upgrade thier service with 2 more characters for 10 dollars a piece, buying a game all over again with all the same content simply to play 4 more characters is a bit steep, but my opinion is that this just leaves the door open for them to provide more slots with an expansion, giving you everything at the begining leaves you spoiled and wanting for something else, they have to gauge themselves if they want this game to last.

Mr. Matt · May 27, 2005, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppinjay

Just sell a character pack that adds 2 more for 10 dollars say. None of the other packaging for GW is necessary. In stores it would come on a card with one of those silver-scratch backs, and perhaps it could even be cheaper to buy it online since the computer could just tell you a code after your credit card is verified. This would be very easy to do. Heck, instead of cards they could have Guild Wars Fortune Cookies with the code inside. Production costs would be less than trivial just to put a number out there.

One thing though, since more chars will be sharing storage, the storage should be expanded by 5 slots for each new character.

Poppin

I think this is an excellent idea, though I think it would be best to do it online personally. It's the sort of thing I was thinking of, and if done correctly it could help them with their funding issues.

Hunter511 · May 31, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandonIT

I've never seen a database of any size that stored data in the most efficient way possible. Even though Tormunda's list of memory requirements for each character is an example of a _minimum_ size a character could be, I doubt it's there.

Besides, don't forget that for every size increase of the database, you're increasing your hardware costs not just for initial purchase, but for ONGOING maintenance of that equipment _forever_ (or at least until Guild Wars shuts down).

With no constant income from subscriptions, as a company I would be very wary of doing anything that will increase my ongoing costs without a good reason.

As someone said, 3 characters is enough for all 6 professions, plus a random PvP char.

Plus I'm sure if more professions are added, we'll be allocated an appropriate number of additional slots to allow us to try that profession. Perhaps not enough to try EVERY combination of that profession, but enough.

Personally, I like it that no one can have a character of every type/combination. This makes the game more diverse to make players have to choose.

And after reading through this thread, I would like to add the following to our intellectual conversation these bits of knowledge from one of our "prominent citizens."
--------------------------------------
"WE need like 40 SLOTS!!!!!!! thats all i got to say"

"that the most retarded thing iv heard"

"What is it with u people that say 6 would but enough and that guy saying that 4 is a gift i dont know if any of u played diablo before but you could have as many characters as u wanted and alot of people played that game and it didnt slow anything down 40 slots is reasonable!!!"

"yeah and i should listen to you cause u almost know what ur talking about!"

"Character files Do Bot Take Up that much room!"

"Umm how about its free cause this is just pathetic only haveing 4 chars!!!"

"'then plz do share how much u think they take up since ur so smart!"
--------------------------------------------
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This is a message board, not an AOL chatroom. As such, you have all the time necessary to articulate your posts in a coherent matter. "You" is only two more letters than "u", it won't kill you to type them. Completely illegible posts are subject to moderation - and I can't guarantee their accuracy of 'translating' the authors original message, if you get my drift. When one punctuation works (like a ?) instead of 10 (like ?!?!), use one.

wow i guess i hit a nerve maybe u should take a chillpill buddy i could really careless what u or anyone has to say about my spellin u dont have to read it k thx not STFU. u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u

Acheus Lokine · May 31, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

I don't see any need for more than 4. You can have all sorts of combinations with just 4 characters. If you don't get to experience all 6 classes as primary, oh well, that's just too bad. Besides, that's what secondary classes are for. I like my single character, why would I want any more unless I wanted PvP only or something? Too many characters just clogs up server space.

Dagbiker · May 31, 2005, 02:09 AM // 02:09

when you do your money calculations, remember you arnt paying a monthly fee, and they arnt receving one.

buggsy · May 31, 2005, 05:25 PM // 17:25

dittos, and bump

Winterclaw · Jun 01, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Currently I have a W/E (main), a W/M (pre), and a E/W (pre). Even though I have one slot left, I'd like to try out a R/W, a Mo/Me (or something) and a Me/something. Now once I have someone hit the maximum level, I might not be willing to give him up.

If I had to make the decision, I'd have 8 slots for RP characters. That'd leave you with one slot for each class and two to mess around with. I'd also allow people 2 PvP only slots. They can be quickly made and easily replaced.

Eclair · Jun 01, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Seriously though, CE people should at least get one more slot. We basically pretty much paid for another copy of the game (I got my for 80ish dollars) and the only thing that was worth it was the art book. I think one more slot for CE is reasonable.

Kossan · Jun 01, 2005, 11:01 PM // 23:01

but doesnt that get kinda unfair to? ... i mean i would certainly have gotten the CE if there had been something adding to the gameplay, now for the music and book(s) i didnt think it was worth it...

Eclair · Jun 01, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Well they could make it so that you can buy another character for 10-15 dollars, then everyone would be happy =)

Dagbiker · Jun 01, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

Seriously though, CE people should at least get one more slot. We basically pretty much paid for another copy of the game (I got my for 80ish dollars) and the only thing that was worth it was the art book. I think one more slot for CE is reasonable.

i would agree, except it already came out, and you already bought it, and its not fair for the other people who bought the normal guild wars, to not be punished, but not to be rewarded eather, in other words, when you bought the CE of guild wars, you made a fully in formed dissision( hopefully ) and when you paid you made a contract, or a deal with the store to give you a product or a service( the game, guild wars ce ) but if you dont like it, theres realy nothing they can do.

TheIrishman · Jun 02, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

Alright....Anyone who plays CS/Hl here is probably gonna Headshot me in about 2 seconds....

Why not use something like Steam? *Ducks!*

*Checks if the coast is clear*

Not EXACTLY like Steam, but similar. Allow players to buy upgrades using this useful application in your toolbar. (Not calling steam useful - Its a great idea, but only on paper). This would be useful for when the new chapters come out, as well as for players who would like more space, or to upgrade to the CE edition (pay an extra 20 bucks so your guy can sparkle....I know I wouldnt, but hey, I live in suburbia - Someone in my town would LOVE to buy that..I mean hey, its their parents money!).

So, lets say you spend 45 dollers for 4 characters. An extra....hmm...15 for another 4 characters sounds reasonable. Anyone who needs more then 8 slots (3 RP to unlock all the available skills, 4 PvP, one extra RP when your bored) is a silly person indeed. Therefore, you still only HAVE to pay 45 for the game, and then, if you REALLY need the room, its an extra 15.

ANET makes money, you get new characters without having to pay per month (15 dollers = 1 month of EQ2....60 Dollers = 3 months +EQ2 game price), so when you look at it, its a good deal.

My humble thoughts.

(EDIT::: Sorry Eclair, missed your post. Mine and Eclairs humble thoughts.)