Curse

Romac · May 09, 2005, 11:14 AM // 11:14

i think the aggro code looks something like this

IF player = monk THEN attack
ELSE look for monk

It sucks to have to fight groups of mobs that almost completely focus on monks

If i'm fighting a group of 6 or so mobs, and most of that group is focussed on our monk, how do you expect us to get aggro off the monk??

I can't count how many times my monk is almost instantly dead and the rest of my team has 100% health with a group of henchies.

There's got to be a better way to code the aggro than IF player = monk THEN attack ELSE look for monk.

Maybe not a total overhaul...just a little adjustment.

Or if you just have to write it that way, then at least add some henchmen code that says

IF monk is getting hit THEN attack whatever is hitting monk.

Vangor · May 09, 2005, 11:31 AM // 11:31

I have found it annoying the amount of monsters that move right for the healer, a few I can understand being intelligent, but, it defeats the purpose of tanks by and large. I would rather them have much more of a closest target deal, and become a bit more "walled in" by people blocking their path, a few attacks are made against running foes but people rarely seem to have these and I know I don't, but I have to get some path exploitive positions ot make sure multiple foes will engage me. If it is open fields this is almost impossible, and a few times they will just run around anyway, plus I know of no real aggro system, but I don't want one to be included either, just something that is straightforward, not, your monk is going to die.

reninator · May 09, 2005, 12:01 PM // 12:01

ive noticed too when i have a monk henchmen with me they always go after the monk first the trick is u have to pull the aggro from the mobs off the monk early. when im doing missions as soon as mulitiple targets are incoming i hit target and cast my most damaging skills on at least every one of them this draws the aggro off the monk and onto me and my tank and allows the monk to due their job which is heal.usually the first target i cast on engages with me and the others start running for the monk ill turn and melee with any other mobs heading for the back of party for the monk this also gives the tank a chance to engage them then i will back out and finish casting my hexes and monk moves to safety and starts healing. if a mob still engages ur monk this becomes ur "marked target" and must be dealt with quickly.this strat works pretty good when u soloing with henchies.

Executioner · May 09, 2005, 12:03 PM // 12:03

LOL love the code improv... change "monk" for "weakest player/least health in the group" and i think your pritty close.. im not saying take a lvl 10 to fissure as cannon fodder cos they wont last long enough to warrent it..

As for the intelligence of the oppsition, i would think the creature with the most would be making the calls againts your group, grunts just follow orders heh.

Basicly the best way to counter this is once the enemy is aggro'd, warriors take out the ememy casters (dont want them healing their warriors).. while the rest of the party runs around healing each other and range attacking the casters (they go down pritty fast with 2 W/? and range attacks)..

If you have a 3rd warrior its his job to hit the incoming warriors(with powerfull strikes)untill they turn on him(this does work), its not his job to kill them, so he moves on to the next enemy warrior to aggro againts him. (healers need to keep this guy alive, hes helping you out)

If you dont have a 3rd warrior..then warrior 1 concentrates attacks on a enemy warrior(pref goes to one attacking your monks), while warrior 2 does the above warrior 3 job then heads to attack the same target as warrior 2(concentrate your attacks for quick kills).

Another tactic is when the enemy is aggro'd then your warriors attack the nearest enemy warriors, but once they have hit them a few times move for the enemy casters(its pointless fighting something that gets healed but you may aggro that warrior in them few first hits).

Just a final point, if you dont know what to attack next.. dont stand around looking >.< , attack something! i use closest target, then check out whats going on if theres no target calls..

I hope this helps.. it works for me..

Deagol · May 09, 2005, 12:09 PM // 12:09

It is more complex than that, they tend to go after weak players, low armor or damaged, as well as those that aggrevate them (hit them, heal players that hit them). The monk often has low armor.

PvE combat is the same as PvP combat, monsters, at least those that are supposed to be intelligent (Charr, Tengu...) should have the best AI possible for team combat to prepare you for the real thing.

Making the henchmen smarter on the other hand, is always an excellent idea. They are already better than most players on the random teams, at least in the first part of the game.

Romac · May 09, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by reninator

ive noticed too when i have a monk henchmen with me they always go after the monk first the trick is u have to pull the aggro from the mobs off the monk early.

that part that wears on me is that i am constantly pulling aggro off my monk, but when there are 6 or more mobs all jumbled around me with all my henchmen it's hard to tell which one's are attacking my monk, and as soon as i pull one off, another one is killing her.

i also enjoy the perspective of this from a player's point of view because my main is a monk...so whenever i group with real players i'll have 3 or 4 mobs on my ass, and in the jumble and heat of battle it's hard for my team mates to pull aggro off me so many mobs are so focussed on me, and a lot of players are ignorant of the fact that mobs will aggro healers/mages/ and mesmers first so they don't even know to look out for it.

I'd just like for them to look at it a little closer, and add a little variety into the code so that my monk wasn't the first to die in almost every scenario.

Starflower · May 09, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

I admit I'm finding it frustrating to watch everyone gang up on my monk henchman, but I've always found taunt ability not very realistic. Come on...you're facing a group of people, and one of them is a slim woman in cloth, making holy symbols. If you have two brain cells to rub together, are you really going to waste time attacking the big guy in armor yelling insults about your mother?

Now that I have the aggro system I've always claimed was realistic, I'm not super happy about it, but I have to admit it's what real enemies would do...

wongba · May 09, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

strangely i haven't noticed a pronounced concentration of aggro on monks. i play monk primary and i simply don't feel that i'm targeted more often than other classes. this was true even when i was lvl 16 partied w/ lvl 20s in the fissure. sure i died sooner than the others, but it was only after a great deal of fighting had been done. monsters seemed to attack all different team members and never seemed to gang up on me beyond a reasonable amount.

SOT · May 09, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Hmmm.

I'll rp a sec...

I am a Charr Flamekeeper. I get shot in the back by some female human the size of my penis with an arrow. I turn around and send some pain into her navel, only to find a bald headed, robe wearing sack-attack healing the *****. Naturally, I know this cannot end well for me, unless I remove her ability to withstand my badassness.

Class dismissed

Elurian · May 09, 2005, 03:00 PM // 15:00

I agree with the previous 2 posters honestly get some tactics. I've played a monk primary since the WPE and if anything the aggro got less and less on me as the BWEs wore on and now in release it is rare to see a mob aggro me. If one does aggro me I just pick it off on my wars and keep moving and heal them.

Galatea · May 09, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Yeah, the aggro code is a bit strange..

Lately, our party build has consisted of 3 War, 1 Ele, Little Thom Henchmen & Alesia the Healer. When surrounded by a huge mob, I notice that rangers will target the healer & me (the elementalist), one or two of the melee will focus on the Wars, and then another 2-4 will run directly for Alesia and she'll be dead within a minute.

Another strange thing I've noticed is when our party splits up, I think the aggro get confused. Once I attacked a Snow Wolf (it was green, but I got bored while waiting for the rest of the party) -- instead of it attacking me, it ran away -- far until it reached the other party members, who were confused by the wolf aggro.

jdwoody · May 09, 2005, 03:27 PM // 15:27

I haven't noticed my monk getting attacked for being a healer, I have seen some creatures run past the warriors and go after spell casters but they usually went for whoever had the worst armor and/or whoever happened to be carrying a special item...

Aiwahead · May 09, 2005, 03:43 PM // 15:43

If when monk = Attacked, then DEFEND.
Goto 10. >.>

Vangor · May 09, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

You know, all of these people say have some tactics, but, it is difficult for most warriors, who should be tanking, to try all targets at once, and even then landing an exec blow on an executioner running by, they rarely hesitate, and good luck trying to pull aggro off of a person who has to keep healing themselves.

As I said, I wouldn't mind a few more intelligent beings running for them, this is the obvious choice for a target, yet, everything does it almost all of the time, if you have a fair sized group, chances are your healer is going down quick.

And I would like to say, I consider it more tactical advantage in bringing a warrior to the forefront to aggro a group and having him impede their path, than simply having to make enemies turn around because I'm going ot kill them. Even when people are striking me, I continue on after the healer, I know I won't get the other guy down, so I continue, hopefully with someone else's help, on the healer. Aggro systems are always stupid, and I always spin to attack enemies on a healer if need be, but, it is stupid to have the same reaction time and time again.

A11Eur0 · May 09, 2005, 04:30 PM // 16:30

It annoys me when they go for my spellcasters, and then my spell casters keep running away, making me follow the one attacking my spellcasters, leading me away from the main group. I'm a warrior by the way. The only way I can think of to stop an initial charge of warrior enemies is to use a crippling blow like hamstring on them. Another thing is to have the warrior run far enough ahead to aggro the monsters before the rest of the party comes in. Then the monk has nothing to worry about and can focus on healing.

jdwoody · May 09, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

making me follow the one attacking my spellcasters,

as a monk when I see this happening I use my bane signet to knock down the chasing creature. If the warrior can get a hit in while the creature is knocked down, most of the time when it gets up it will engage the warrior...

Bane signet uses 0 energy, so please no whining about me not using my energy for healing...

SOT · May 09, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangor

You know, all of these people say have some tactics, but, it is difficult for most warriors, who should be tanking, to try all targets at once

Another irony for me from this morning, like in the thread about new chars...

I have a fighter that is rather new as an aside character. this morning, i used up some of my mortal coil and got him to do the grawl invader quest in pre-searing, for warlord hamburgerhead (whatever, they all look the same to me

).

I went apeshat on a grawl invader, got attacked by 4 others with bows, but using my 3 yep, 3 measily skills, I comitted grawl-o-cide and didn't die. I used the "attack faster" skill, and the adrenaline melee combo of arterial whatever it is, and then the follow up one that is if the other one hits, and bam, bstards ate sod. i used heal skill every few seconds, and in between that, i slashed away the grawl nads.

Need I mention I was ALONE.

So...yeah, get tactics. use that mouse damn you. HOT KEYS ARE GOD

Lasher Dragon · May 09, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Yes, I hate the "Every single monster must destroy the healer at all costs" code too. As said earlier, with some monsters I can understand. The dwarves around Yak's Bend for example. But devourers? Spiders? I mean c'mon! My NPC monk dies anytime more than 6 or 7 devourers boil out of the ground at once. The critters simply fire over the heads of the tanks that are chopping into them.
Also - how the hell do devourers and spiders have the range they do? It's really ridiculous - I swear they have longer range than longbows.
Another thing I've noticed. OK, so many combats the monk gets totally hosed. So, I decide to try planting Healing Springs under the monk to keep her in health. 90% of the time I do that, she moves away. Any other time, the monk stands her ground, heals what she can, then dies. As soon as I cast Healing Spring near her, she runs off - and Healing Spring has a very limited radius. I swear I want to kill her many times LOL.

SOT · May 09, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

LOL

one tactic that has worked me 95% of the time on my main character, a ranger/mesmer, is to use multiple-enemy damage spells. Chaos storm for example. Charr Stalkers hurt me fast. Those damn ignite arrows that make the high pitched noise before turning my skin inside out. Well, using something like Chaos Storm always seems to get the Axe Fiends and Ash Walkers (the look like stripe from gremlins LOL) to attack ME or the fighter, and they momentarily leave the healer alone, which of course ensures I outlive them thar bastards.

FrodoFraggins · May 09, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

This problem is made worse by the fact that tanks have no form of taunt.