Curse

Goonter · Jun 02, 2005, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Ive suggested it once and Ill suggest it again. Skill npc's could sell a larger vairty (if not all) of skills near the beginning of the game. Skill npcs could sell elites at double the price (2 skill points and some gold) or give a mission with a capture signet to the location of the elite skill boss (at the price of the capture signet) It seems like it would help with the "grind" assoicated with getting those harder skills.

As far as the damage elementist do. I dont know...Ive seen a lot of people in pvp using lighting damage with great success. To may knowledge, its the best single target spike damage dealing attribute in the game. Other wise, I think the all of the attributes could use to maybe deal great damage or add to the elementist defencive line. (I could imagine a fire elementist creating a wall of fire so that anyone that wants to get to him has to burn)
This could be built on whats sort of already been established. Fire, AoE damage , Lighting spike damage, Water - slow Earth - defense, distrupt (or however its set up)

Chaynsaw · Jun 02, 2005, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

I am tired of hearing the same tired, baseless excuse for a rebuttal from you so I'm going to dispel all of your illusions right now. My guild is 8-0 at the moment. We have grinded out most of the runes and skills we need and it's pretty obvious that we are competitive as we are. We are never "unwilling" to get something we need when we decide our build needs it.

However that doesn't make it right that we have to endure hours of time we could be spending actually training real PvP skills wading through hordes and hordes of worthless AI-controlled chop liver. A simple skill-acquisition run? To get Spell Breaker, you have to run from Droknar's northwest all the way to Rankor's Fort, and from there travel north across the longest north-south area in the game, made even longer by the infuriatingly twisting road. If you hack your way all the way to the northernmost end and check three separate locations, the mob you need may not even be there. Hooray.

That's upwards of two hours with henchmen, still upwards of an hour with a solid guild group just from time spent running. Now multiply that by every Elite, of which there are over 60. Okay, you don't need all the elites? Then half that number, that's still 30 goddamn hours of our time wasted doing stupid things that we hate! And this doesn't even factor in farming for runes, an even more redundant way to waste an evening where the rewards are even less certain. Finish a whole mission and get blessed with two gold drops? Nope, one is a minor that you already have and the other's a worthless salvage item. Try again.

I am consistently getting the impression from your posts that you really don't have much PvP experience at all, and are just spouting the rhetoric of the ideal universe you imagine the PvP world to be based on things you have heard and what little you've seen. Me and mine are not lazy, uncoordinated, or unwilling to do what it takes to win and I resent the implication, but that does not mean it is right to make "what it takes to win" involve doing things we hate to do.

And if you really still don't think one skill can make a difference in a battle, just wait around until you see some real PvP and go up against a team making prodigious use of Spell Breaker. You'll see what I mean.

Oh, whatever. You're retracting so much that I have no idea what you're saying anymore. Resort to defensiveness, indignation, and ad hominem attacks, but of course, disregard the original content of my post which I made a specific effort to extricate of personal attacks.

Perhaps they should just give you a UAS character. I'm in favor of it, if it would make you stop whining. Are your virtual legs tired from all that running? Are you dizzy, faint, or out-of-breath? Does doing skill runs give you a dull headache?

akuryou13 · Jun 03, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Regarding most of the early posts and some others scattered throughout: I like WoW, it's a great game, but I don't feel like paying $15 a month to play it. I LOVE GW as it's a completely awesome game and the gameplay just plain rocks, but it's, quite frankly, too short. when I said that it should be made more like WoW I meant that it should be given more quests and longer quests, as well as items to quest for and to make. as it is now, the weapon crafters are almost entirely useless and you can get the best weapon in the game before you're even level 18.

some of you said that I should start an Alt. I have, I have 2 alts, but I don't really want to go through the same missions over again as they're rather annoying and don't really provide me with any incentive to play through them (In other games quests gave you rewards such as useful items or loads of exp, but in GW very few story-line quests give you any good xp, and none give useful items).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadye X

1 ~ Try and consider the idea that each different school of ele magic will have it's strengths and it's weaknesses, and that each is specifically designed to stand apart from the others. If all elements did the same amount of damage in the same way ( aoe ) then there really would be no use to have any other school of magic than fire. All professions are built this way in the game, and thankfully with the attribute / skill bar set-up in GW, it helps prevent any single class from being able to make that *one unstoppable build* that can defeat all others.

As an extention of the idea of the elements all being different, consider a different class like a nec ~ you could argue that Blood / Curse should be able to do as much damage as Death, or that Death should be able to steal life as effectively as Blood.

you've COMPLETELY missed my point. Fire and Air magic are the damage dealers, and Water and Earth magic are the... supportive (I guess that's the best word) magics. Fire does twice as much as everything else does regardless of whether the spell is meant to be a damage dealing one or not. diversity amongst the classes of magic is a very good thing I wouldn't dream of changing, but having 1 class that's so much more powerful than all the others without any kind of hindering effect or balance among the others just doesn't make sense. Air magic is what I'd like to specialize in, but it only hits one target for half the damage fire does. while I think it should remain a single-target class as it makes more sense and it makes it worth specializing more than fire in some cases, the fact that it does so much less than fire makes an aeromancer much less useful than he should be.

also, people have said that fire is much less useful in late-game, but what about PvP? in PvP people aren't set to be more or less resistant to certain elements, they just have armor (of their own choosing, mind you) that could provide elemental defense. in PvP the other elements are MUCH more useful than they are in PvE, but at least SOME of the spells could use a nice, healthy damage buff even though some others are fine as-is.

DarrenJasper · Jun 03, 2005, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaynsaw

Oh, whatever. You're retracting so much that I have no idea what you're saying anymore. Resort to defensiveness, indignation, and ad hominem attacks, but of course, disregard the original content of my post which I made a specific effort to extricate of personal attacks.

Perhaps they should just give you a UAS character. I'm in favor of it, if it would make you stop whining. Are your virtual legs tired from all that running? Are you dizzy, faint, or out-of-breath? Does doing skill runs give you a dull headache?

I'm amazed your brain hasn't turned to oatmeal from fighting braindead AI-controlled mobs all day, my old Tetris game put up a better fight. But then, who's to say it hasn't? All indications from your posts are inconclusive.

DarkAynjil · Jun 03, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by kungfumonkey2

Comment in regards to Fire magic doing UBER damage compared to other spells, and I think this was already pointed out.

The spells have different secondary attributes that make them worth while besides their damage. Lets try to break it down like this, I am not saying this is the only thing it does, but there seems to be an underlying thread with each skill. FIRE: DAMAGE, EARTH: DISRUPTION, WATER: SLOW, LIGHTNING: ARMOR PIERCE. When I first started with my E/Mo I looked at the skills, and I was like 'Oh yeah fire it does more damage'. As the game has progressed fire has become more impratical. Monsters later on seem to have a higher lvl of fire resistance more frequently. I started to notice this with the White Mantle around Ettins Back, and it doesn't get much better (which is about the time more skills become available). So, that high level of dmg from fire really is not that high.

Although I do think Chain Lightning is nerfed, and should do more dmg, or recharge faster or blind all the enemies for 60seconds and maybe it could leech mana.

*PING*

I agree with Kungfumonkey2 here:
The one thing about fire is that yes, it packs the damage - outright damage in fire is a lot better than the other three elements. *However* - you have to look at what you give up for this damage : you get no "bonus" effects such as blind/weak/slow/armor-pierce, and you spend more mana per spell (usually - there are a few exceptions), and the kicker is that the CASTING TIMES are LONG for good fire damage. Air does less damage per cast, but most spells cast and recharge faster, so you will actually out-damage a target with lightning than with fire. Fire's advantage is in PvE, where AoE is handy because the AI isn't smart enough to back out of that 4-second-to-cast-60-seconds-to-recharge-90+dps-Meteor Shower.

The elements are balanced, I recently re-specced my mage (Fyre Caller E/Mo 20) to Air. I do more damage than a fire mage on single targets. I used to beat down MOBS faster, but I can really nuke that SINGLE target before it really can respond, usually. And I can move to the next target quickly, because my skills all recharge pretty quick.

akuryou13 · Jun 03, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAynjil

Air does less damage per cast, but most spells cast and recharge faster, so you will actually out-damage a target with lightning than with fire. Fire's advantage is in PvE, where AoE is handy because the AI isn't smart enough to back out of that 4-second-to-cast-60-seconds-to-recharge-90+dps-Meteor Shower.

The elements are balanced, I recently re-specced my mage (Fyre Caller E/Mo 20) to Air. I do more damage than a fire mage on single targets. I used to beat down MOBS faster, but I can really nuke that SINGLE target before it really can respond, usually. And I can move to the next target quickly, because my skills all recharge pretty quick.

hmmmm.....hadn't really thought of that...I still say a few spells should be boosted, but you have a point here about most of them.

DarkAynjil · Jun 03, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaynsaw

Nope. That wasn't what he said. What he said took two lines. You took four. So it wasn't what HE SAID, it was what you think he said... which for all intents and purposes, is all you, attributing your thoughts to invisible things in between the lines of WeezerBlue's post. Why? Go and take credit for your hard-thought arguments...

Because you're still wrong, man. If I have 60 skills, and someone has 61 skills, am I going to lose to this guy, just because his 61st skill is Signet of Judgment or Banish? Um, no.

Someone paralleled Guild Wars to Magic: the Gathering and other collectors' card games, which isn't such a stretch if you consider that from a wide pool of cards/skills in your arsenal, you can only take a small fixed amount into battle. I wouldn't argue that a person with a smaller pool of cards in MtG would necessarily lose to someone with a larger pool of cards... would you argue that someone with a larger pool of skills in GW would do the same to me?

Ironically, having played M:tG for 5 years competitively, I can assure you that, yes - as a matter of fact, if you went up against me in a Type I tourney and didn't have the big nine or at least big blue to work from you would stand a very minute chance of beating me. So, while I agree with your point of view, I think M:tG is not good for a comparison here due to the fact that a "lack of ammunition" as we used to call it, regularly eliminated new players from Type I and in some cases type II tourneys. which is not to say their decks were badly constructed, they just didn't have access to "Clutch" or "Killer" cards.

Chaynsaw · Jun 04, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarrenJasper

I'm amazed your brain hasn't turned to oatmeal from fighting braindead AI-controlled mobs all day, my old Tetris game put up a better fight. But then, who's to say it hasn't? All indications from your posts are inconclusive.

I usually do knitting or trim my nails while I am farming.

Straegen · Jun 05, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

#1 Fire does take you through most of the game well, but once you get to the desert you will find that air far out damages fire with its armor pen and creatures natural resistance to fire.

#2 Earth has some spells such as Crystal Wave that do incredible damage against armored foes... don't underestimate its power.

#3 Most people get stuck on fire because it is the easiest and most obvious to use, but it also is only damage where the other types have additional advantages like earths Ward of Melee and Armor of Earth.

#4 Once I ascended I thought I would be at end game as well, but what did I find? The ability to get every skill in the game, tons of elites from bosses I didn't have, armor that will take an insane amount of time to get, new monsters that require new tactics to fight and incredible new areas that I had never seen before. Unlike other true MMOGs, this game has a story that is pretty good and I find it isn't about the treadmill. In WoW, you find a way to kill a monster rinse wash and repeat on everything. In this game, each new area starting at the desert requires me to adapt my character to the environment. Its all about the strategy in GW and that is a trend I hope catches on.

TheIrishman · Jun 05, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Alright, I'm sorry. That's it though.

No More World of Warcraft comparisons.

Guild Wars and WoW are NOTHING alike.

It's like comparing Half-Life 2 and Alpha Centurai - Sure, they both got 98% in PC Gamer, and they're both amazing games, but they are NOTHING ALIKE.

WoW is in the Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and Star Wars Galaxy kind of gametype - a true MMORPG.

GW is more along the lines of an Action RPG, such as Dungeon Siege and Diablo 2.

DarrenJasper · Jun 05, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheIrishman

GW is more along the lines of an Action RPG, such as Dungeon Siege and Diablo 2.

Haha, I was about to agree with your post until you dropped this bombshell. Comparing GW to a mindless hack-and-slashterpiece like Diablo 2 is no more valid (maybe less) than comparing it to WoW.

I really wish people would stop trying to find parallels between GW and other games, I really don't think there's a precedent for a kind of game like GW.

SisterMercy · Jun 05, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by akuryou13

... 1. as an elementalist I think it's entirely unfair that Fire magic hits for twice as much as every other element as well as striking all foes in an area...

Big damage, area of effect, wimpy constitution and goes down like a daisy. Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying playing a Pyromancer, but they're definitely vulnerable.

At someone's suggestion, I looked at Earth skills. Definitely not vulnerable. A good geomancer-warrior could easily be either the unstoppable force or the immovable object. But not much damage, unless from the secondary class.

And Aeromancers, you get some nuking, some AoE, a bit more defense and good movement. An effective Ranger complement.

And Hydromancers would be excellent in conjunction with Mesmers. You've got a good-damage Maelstrom, and a lot of decent knockdowns, paralyzers and freezes.

These are generalizations, of course, but it all boils down to what you want to accomplish

Quote:

Originally Posted by akuryou13

... at this point I'm considering putting GW away for a while until there are more quests to do and more zones to explore. I still enjoy the game, there's just not enough for me to do on it.

Done it all as a caster? Now try be a warrior or monk. Voila, new game.

Gerbill · Jun 06, 2005, 12:22 AM // 00:22

first of all, all the comparisons to all other games have got to go.

think the fire damage question's been answered enough.

as for the game:

you can finish it with other chars if you want, eventhough a lot of the quests will be the same you'll have to adapt your playstyle because you'll be playing a different character.

maybe you can join one of the larger guilds and see how you do in pro PvP which might be more challenging than you think.

akuryou13 · Jun 06, 2005, 06:34 AM // 06:34

replaying through as a Mo/W is interesting and I enjoy it, but going through some of the most tedious missions is more annoying than fun. I dread the idea of ascending again with my alt because of all the crap missions you have to go through with no reason to do them again but to get through them. the missions on GW are sort of like the grind on WoW and EQ, they're annoying, tedious and completely pointless for anything other than continuing the story. while I love the fact that the story on GW is there, and is interesting, it's rather annoying that you have no way to advance without going through the same old things, in the same way that it's annoying on WoW and EQ that you have to level by killing the same old things. I'm not a kind of person who plays through a game more than once or twice, so that's half of my problem, but because of the fact, I don't really enjoy playing through with my alt as a different style of player.

Dagbiker · Jun 06, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by akuryou13

replaying... is ...tedious, I dread the idea... of crap... sort of. I love... killing the same kind of person who... more than once or twice... really enjoy playing through with my alt as a different style of player.

akuryou13 · Jun 06, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dagbiker

what the hell was that about?!

Evan The Cursed · Jun 06, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

This game is in shambles, just like this thread...

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 06, 2005, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by akuryou13

I have 2 problems with this game.

1. as an elementalist I think it's entirely unfair that Fire magic hits for twice as much as every other element as well as striking all foes in an area. it makes no sense that an AE spell would do more damage than a normal single-target spell would, and making an entire set of AE spells do more than any other set of AE or Single-target spells makes absolutely no sense at all. from the way I see it, Fire magic does exactly the right amount of damage that spells need to do, but ALL spells need to be able to do that much. Water, Wind and Earth spells should all hit for a max of 100+ damage (damage varies according to the spells, of course) unless the extra effects of the spell should cause the spell to do less (in other words, spells like Chain Lightning, Maelstrom, and Metoer Shower should do less damage than others in their respective magic catagories because they do things that are very powerful).

First of all, your post demonstrates you have not adequately played the other mage archetypes to any reasonable degree of competency.
Fire is the "easiest" and most damaging, but by no means the "best."
When encountering a foe, there are many ways to defeat it other than a simple slugfest of who can get there "the fastest with the mostest."

1.) Earth Mages render there targets immobile and their allies impervious.
2.) Water mages are caster killers - a stunned, frozen, or slowed foe is a soon-to-be-dead one. Maelstrom rules, period.
3.) Air mages are tank killers. Armor penetration anyone? How can a foe attack when its lying flat on its back.

Fire offers NONE of these benefits. I only take Fire when I implicity trust my group to keep my butt alive - because I'm a glass cannon otherwise.
Play accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by akuryou13

2. the game ends with the story. after you beat the story line, all that's left is to go back and do bonus missions and/or go to Underworld and Fissure. in other games, you can play for months and years and still have many things you could be doing, but on Guild Wars I've played for about a month and I'm already done with everything interesting. there's no awesome items that I can quest for, there's no particular reason for me to save up for more money than I have because the 15 and 30 K armors are entirely pointless (especially for an elementalist and a few others, where the only difference is the way the armor dyes), and there really isn't any motivation for me to play anything at all on the game outside of PvP. at this point I'm considering putting GW away for a while until there are more quests to do and more zones to explore. I still enjoy the game, there's just not enough for me to do on it.

Get thee back to EQ!
1.) The game is just released. Go whine elsewhere if you've already completed it and are bored. A job, girlfriend, social life, or education would be excellent pursuits.
2.) You haven't done everything - 1 month isn't sufficient. Go back and explore. There's plenty you have missed - I promise.
3.) Two new dungeons are on the way. Be patient, play another class, and experiment. Try a monk or ranger - its a completely different game.
4.) Your post reflects a "I want to win NOW!" mentality. This is a common mindset amongst certain youngsters who live at home, are unemployed, and can play 24/7... Am I jealous?

A little!

But take the opportunity to really explore Tyria in depth, and come back and share your new wisdom with us!

May your skills prevail,

Talesin

deathwearer · Jun 06, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

imo, what is missing in GW is a less "static" map. I mean... more explorable area, right now the map is pretty big, but they dont use all the space they have on it ( maybe its for the expension, i dont know about it )

akuryou13 · Jun 10, 2005, 02:51 AM // 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

First of all,...........trust my group to keep my butt alive - because I'm a glass cannon otherwise.
Play accordingly.

read the rest of the thread, I've been proven and accepted that I was wrong about the elementalist thing many times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Get thee back to EQ!
1.) The game is just released. Go whine elsewhere if you've already completed it and are bored. A job, girlfriend, social life, or education would be excellent pursuits.
2.) You haven't done everything - 1 month isn't sufficient. Go back and explore. There's plenty you have missed - I promise.
3.) Two new dungeons are on the way. Be patient, play another class, and experiment. Try a monk or ranger - its a completely different game.
4.) Your post reflects a "I want to win NOW!" mentality. This is a common mindset amongst certain youngsters who live at home, are unemployed, and can play 24/7... Am I jealous?

1. the game just having been released is no excuse to have so little to do. in EQ, WoW, etc, the game had TONS to do even at the beginning.
2. I know I haven't done everything, but there's absolutely no reason to do the other things as they offer no reward other than a very small amount of EXP I could get elsewhere.
3. I'm awaiting those 2 dungeons as I'm interested to see what those are like, and I have alts, but the fact that the missions offer no reward of any kind other than the fun of going through them makes me slightly unmotivated to complete them with a second character. in other games I would get useful items from a quest, but on here all I get is "YAY! I BEAT THE MISSION!! WOO!"
4. admittedly, I live at home, and unemployed, and played quite a bit, but I'm not the type you're referring to regardless

I'm not trying to "win" I'm trying to play a game I enjoy playing. in fact, I very rarely buy games where the point is to win, but instead opt for the game where the point is to have fun and possibly win. I'm playing Guild Wars to enjoy myself, and I do, the game is awesome in many, many ways. I love the game and am QUITE satisfied with it considering I only paid $50 for it and there's no monthly fee. I'd say it's well worth my $50, but I'd just expect a bit more to do in a MMORPG like this....well, a bit more to do with reasons to do it, i should say.