Curse

GAMBITTHOUGHT · Jun 03, 2005, 07:32 PM // 19:32

I do not know how everybody else base there character play as a ranger, but for me it is the love for the Bow. I Shoot Target archery for fun and hope to go competitive in a few years. I know for Target and Hunting shooting I have different arrow tips for each occasion. I think and have read that many other believe the rangers are lacking in GW. The bow’s damage have been dropped down to a level of little significant. I believe this will help in increasing the Ranges Prowess in GW and possible make Ranges a true battle harden character than one most only point and laugh at. I propose that GW developers need to implement Quivers as a secondary hand item for the Rangers.

Quiver
Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines as a case for carrying or holding arrows

A Quiver can be place in the secondary hand to equip it to the Ranger while using a bow. The Quivers can increase the damage of Rangers’ arrows or skill. The quivers can be constructed by presenting crafting items to a crafter.

Examples of Quivers and Material needed to create.
Quiver of Reinforce Tip: increase damage 8-13 pts with amour piercing +10 %
3 Hides , 1 Steel , 1 Lobe Stone, 2 Wood.
Quiver of Serrated edge: Increase damage 4-6 pts and causes bleeding for 2 sec
3 Hides , 2 Iron , 1 bone , 2 Wood
Quiver of Bluntness: Increase damage 10-15 pts against undead
3 Hides , 2 Iron , 2 Granite Stones
Quiver of Speed: Increase damage 3-6 pts and arrow moves 2 times faster
3 Hides , 2 Iron , 2 Feathers
Quiver of Coal Tip: Increase damage 8-13 pts, arrow considered Fire damage.
3 Hides , 2 Charcoal , 2 Iron , 1 Flame wielder Trappings
Quiver of Static Shock: Increase damage 9-12 pts, arrow consider Lighting damage with amour piercing +5%
3 Hides , 1 Iron , 1 Steal , 2 Lobe Stone or Granite
Quiver of Flint Tip: Increase damage 8-12 pts, arrow consider Earth damage
3 Hides , 3 Granit
Quiver of Frozen Tip: Increase damage 8-11 arrow consider Water damage Slow target’s movement by 15 % for 2 sec
4 Hides , 1 Fiber of Tangle , 2 Iron , 1 Pile of Glittering Dust
Quiver of Virper Fang: Increase poison damage by 5 pts.
3 Hides, 3 Bone , 1 Globe of Ectoplasm

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Links of Forum supporters:
http://www.ulggofgw.com/index.php?na...ewtopic&t=1336
http://www.legionofexile.net/modules...ic&p=5202#5202
http://forum.photics.com/viewtopic.php?pid=215#p215

inValidP · Jun 03, 2005, 07:40 PM // 19:40

I would imagine they would have to be toned down from that; or have the costs upped A LOT cuz thats some serious buffing there

Bgnome · Jun 03, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

moved to sanitarium

Sira · Jun 03, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Im sorry i have to disagree, first of all to do this would just ask for rangers to be nerfed, secondly the game is a skill based game in the end...all of the effects the arrows cause for most part can be obtained using skills, and because you can have up to 4 weapon sets this would almost be as effective as if a ranger had 12 skills and 4 cost no energy to use...while the idea itself is great and im not knocking it in anyway, but to impliment it would create major balance issues in the ranger class resulting in the ever dreaded nerf bat

sanderke · Jun 03, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

I support the idea of adding quivers as an off hand item but the bonusses you put on them are to great.
I think that if a quiver were to shorten refire rate by a certain time of up to about 0.5 secs (which would be a 20-25% increase in damage output depending on the bow you use) it would be fine.
It's also realistic since the ranger can grab his new arrow quicker when it's in a quiver.

As a small ranger buff I would propose to shorten arrow in-flight times by 25-40% to increase accuracy, this would help make rangers true ranged damagadealers since the target can't just dodge the arrow.
The ease at which arrows can be dodged takes away from the rangers already poor ability to do damage.

Dumahim Ashenbane · Jun 03, 2005, 08:58 PM // 20:58

I agree that Rangers need a little bit of work. Having a quiver act as an offhand item would open some more doors to flexibility in stats, but they can't go overboard.

Eclair · Jun 03, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12

That's way overpowered. However, like the previous posters mentioned, having it give some small stat bonuses would be fine.

Lasher Dragon · Jun 03, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

The first time I found a buckler in this game, I was like "Hell yeah, this is going to be great on my ranger".

For some reason, buckler in this game is just another name for shield. I was disappointed. IMO A buckler should give like maybe +5 max to armor AND be able to be equipped while using a two-handed weapon. Now make some bucklers with nice bow-related mods and there ya go.

GAMBITTHOUGHT · Jun 07, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I do agree. Some of the buffs are too high. I made this little display as a work in progress so I can have feed back from players.

I do think the damage should be brought down a lot like 4 to 5 pts. But I think that different tips should do different damage amounts. Also I agree with Sanderke that the quiver give added bonuses to the stats of a bow, like speeding up the arrow or flatening arcs.

May be a quiver should be a secondary item to enhanse a character playing style. So a charater that R/Elm focus on fire would want a fire quiver to use conjure flame to the arrow, This will give a chance for two types of play here. The ranger could have flame enhanced arrows and a poison enhance bow string . This will give the ability for a single Range to have two buffs to a one time. Kind alike the Elms having a wand and a focus item.

Please give more feed back or wright a plan of your own. More there is more of a plan will become.

Thanks

Silmor · Jun 07, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

I thought the idea behind the ranger bow damage reduction was balance in the first place. Rangers were easily the top damagers, but at the same time were very versatile covering many other roles as well, hence their strongest aspect was toned down in order to create a well-rounded class. I therefore sincerely doubt they'll revert this update just because Rangers striving for pure damage feel left out.

Secondly, Guild Wars has no effective consumables in battle. A player has his skills, his attributes and his equipment, and that's it. The moment you introduce a damage buff consumable for Rangers, Warriors will want their berserk potions, Monks will want their healing potions, etc. People will then always need to gather materials to create their items before starting a PvP battle in order to remain competitive, instead of being able to just hop in like it is now, and that goes directly against the idea of avoiding 'preparing to have fun'. This is why this concept has no place in Guild Wars.

The idea of arrowheads is already present in skills: Poison Arrow emulates poisoned arrowheads, Ignite Arrows for burning arrows, etc. You can use such arrowheads to your advantage, but you sacrifice a skill slot and usually preparation time to get them, balancing the benefits out.

Sting · Jun 07, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

I thought the idea behind the ranger bow damage reduction was balance in the first place. Rangers were easily the top damagers, but at the same time were very versatile covering many other roles as well, hence their strongest aspect was toned down in order to create a well-rounded class. I therefore sincerely doubt they'll revert this update just because Rangers striving for pure damage feel left out.

Well from what I hear they were one of the best classes to take and were nerfed wich doesnt mean the nerf didnt go to far. As you said so yourself they were 1 of the top damagers now we cant even find a group at the Tombs because Dmg output is to low. Just because we are a little more rounded out than some doesnt mean they are top quality. All the "support" classes are deficient in the damage area IMO.

Silmor · Jun 07, 2005, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Rangers don't get picked up in Tombs because most of them think plinking their bow and sending their pet in to attack means a job well done for them, unfortunately causing the entire class a bad reputation. If the class was made passively stronger again, ArenaNet would just be accomodating the skill-less players, and rangers with actual skill would dominate, leading to (possibly valid) calls for nerf all over. When looking at balance, ArenaNet is better off looking at the top-notch players, and from what I hear those Rangers can get by just fine.

Howling Wind · Jun 08, 2005, 12:58 AM // 00:58

You know I've always thought to myself it would be nice to see a quiver as secondary item to hold to make it look like a true bow user but thats just thinking to myself but seeing this thread it seems i'm not the only one. I'd like to see quivers introduced just to see a bit more playing around with equipment, it will also look quite cool.

Its true that this game is about skills and the nerfing was done to tone down and create a better balance but some skills have been nerfed a little too much that alot of players have trouble playing them efficiently. I mean its kind of sad that its hard for rangers to get a group since we can't do effective damage we can only only support another class in doing their job and easily get picked over other classes...its sad really.

Its good for ArenaNet to look at the top-notch players and even though they will say they can hold their own, they will agree that an improvement on skills and bows will be good. I mean its pretty out of order if you just look at the few good players and ignore how the MAJORITY of others are coping. Just because someone is good doesn't mean everyone else will be, its just a matter of experience, skills and talent that not everyone will get.

I can pretty much hold my own at PvP with my ranger now, mainly concentrating on interupting with the help of arcane conundrum, bascially helping a mesmer and stopping a monk cast rez but timing is too critical sometimes because of fire rate + arrow time, if they lessend then rangers would be better interupter and might be picked more often at PvP and allow others to adapt more easily. The jack-off all trade is okay for PvE but for PvP its specializing thats required.

squakMix · Jun 08, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

I completely support the premis of holding quivers in off-hand for extra dmg and such but I would change the specifics - 8-12 dmg is WAY WAY WAY too much to add if you already have a max dmg bow (that means it'd 20 up to 40 dmg per shot plus buffs).

Sting · Jun 08, 2005, 07:31 AM // 07:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Rangers don't get picked up in Tombs because most of them think plinking their bow and sending their pet in to attack means a job well done for them, unfortunately causing the entire class a bad reputation. If the class was made passively stronger again, ArenaNet would just be accomodating the skill-less players, and rangers with actual skill would dominate, leading to (possibly valid) calls for nerf all over. When looking at balance, ArenaNet is better off looking at the top-notch players, and from what I hear those Rangers can get by just fine.

Well when a class goes from being one of the best in the game to one of the worst (percieved or not) then maybe the nerfs went to far LOL. People here are not wanting to mutate rangers into gods (or in GWs terms Monks

). Puting the rangers DPS up to par with other classes shouldnt be dificult and would make the game even more balanced.

Acheus Lokine · Jun 08, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I disagree as well as agree in this case. I think Rangers should get quivers--it looks odd pulling arrows from nowhere--but I don' think they should be equippable items. Rather, they should just be added onto the character when a bow is equipped. I'm pretty sure that's possible; you would just have to put the quiver on a "top layer" of sorts so that it could be seen over everything else being worn, even guild cape (if the quiver were on the character's back.)

GAMBITTHOUGHT · Jun 10, 2005, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Tell me if everybody likes this better. I stopped aiming to bow to the sky and brought it down in range.

The re work:

Quiver of Reinforce Tip: increase damage 2-4 pts with amour piercing +10 %
3 Hides , 1 Steel , 1 Lobe Stone, 2 Wood.

Quiver of Serrated edge: Increase damage 2-5 pts and causes bleeding for 2 sec
3 Hides , 2 Iron , 1 bone , 2 Wood

Quiver of Bluntness: Increase damage 3-5 pts against undead
3 Hides , 2 Iron , 2 Granite Stones

Quiver of Speed: Increase damage 3-6 pts and arrow moves 2 times faster
3 Hides , 2 Iron , 2 Feathers

Quiver of Coal Tip: Increase Fire damage 5pts
3 Hides , 2 Charcoal , 2 Iron , 1 Flame wielder Trappings, 2 Wood

Quiver of Static Shock: Increase Lighting damage by 5 pts, arrow has amour piercing +5%
3 Hides , 1 Iron , 1 Steal , 2 Lobe Stone or Granite, 2 Wood

Quiver of Flint Tip: Increase Earth damage by 5 pts,
3 Hides , 3 Granit , 2 Wood

Quiver of Frozen Tip: Increase Water damage by 5pts
4 Hides , 1 Fiber of Tangle , 2 Iron , 1 Pile of Glittering Dust, 2 Wood

Quiver of Virper Fang: Increase poison damage by 3 pts.
3 Hides, 3 Bone , 1 Globe of Ectoplasm, 2 Wood

Falconer · Jun 11, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Best thing for a quiver to do would be the equivalent of the european pre-order item which has no other in-game equivalent. I argue that it's WRONG that there is an item that is europe only and has no in game analog.

It gives +8 armor, and +5 energy to a ranger with expertise as an offhand item. It's probably the single best off-hand item that a Ra/W can use if he's using expertise/surviival/melee weapon setup for example. (if he goes tactics instead he gets the nifty ultra-buff shield if he can meet the shield requirement)

In the same vein, given how shields have +16ac, +30hp, -2 damage... or similar...
And how focii give +12 energy, and +20% recycle, +20% casting speed.

Call it a quiver, call it a bracer... but there really should be something for the offhand.