Curse

Goonter · Jun 14, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I see pets are just now starting to get some serious intrest. This is cool because for a while now, as a ranger, it has been the one attrubute Ive neglicted. Im thinking about waiting a bit longer to see if any new pets hit the game to try and focus on leveling one up to 20, cuz currently Im not really impressed by the ones out there. But whatever I pick up, Im sure it will be fun because its a part of the game Im intersted in, unexplored to its potental, for me.

I like to suggest a few ideas through the sanitarium forums about pet control.
Let me know if you think these ideas would work well within the game.

When you have an animal, the charm animal skill would be activated to do different roles depending on the target.

-If you target your animal and activate the skill, the animal would stay put and rest only attacking if something attack it first.
Application: Set up a trap, lure a target with your long bow and step back. your target runs to its closest target (your pet) and sets off trap, your pet finishes the job.

-If you target an enemy your animal would attack that enemy and would not switch targets, unless you switch targets and activate charm animal again.
Application: Target a caster and spam distruptive lounge while you pepper the field with poison arrows and pin down runners.

-If you target yourself or a teammate your animal would rush to thier side and rest, attacking the first or weakest target that is attacking you or the teammate he is assigned to.
Application: If you dont want your pet in a particalar battle have him rush to your side and rest while you continue to fight. Or have him assigned to your team healer to help him increase his survival expectancy. Or assign him to another pet so they can work together as a pack.

The cost and recharge rate would be completely spamable.
Something like:

Cost: -
Cast time: -
Recharge rate: 1

Another thing that would be extremly helpful would to be able to see your pets aggro radius. In addition to this, to be able to command your pet with:
/lure %
In this your pet would run to your selected target just enough to aggro it, and then run back to yours or another location that you command it to go.

How about pet emotes. Only a few maybe, but most certainly a /sit emote that the animal does automadicly when you select your animal and activate charm animal for him to stay put. Maybe a /pet emote would be nice too.

Lastly, to rant and suggest another way.
I believe the skill lock on the death and resurrection of pets is around 4 seconds apiece. (or 8..I forget) Either way, I see it as fair for your pet and all of your pet or beastmastery skills to be disabled for this time, as it insures that beastmasters dont have the advantage of spamming resurrection along with other pet skills as soon as the pet is out of the game.
However, I feel strongly against have every single skill locked for any amout of time. This (to me) leassons the diversity of anyone that would like to have an animal companion as it forces them to consentrate on the survival of the pet before anything else, least the beastmaster becomes completely ineffective for some about of time.
What I mean is, if you have a pet, you better center yourself around him and not use him as a flavorable addition to your skill set. If you dont focus on your pet, then he will cost you.
I feel your pets death should penelize you your pet skills, but not throw you out of the game (unless your game is your pet, in which case you probably had better odds of this not happening to you)

thats all...

Phaedrus · Jun 14, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

I believe the skill lock on the death and resurrection of pets is around 4 seconds apiece. (or 8..I forget) Either way, I see it as fair for your pet and all of your pet or beastmastery skills to be disabled for this time, as it insures that beastmasters dont have the advantage of spamming resurrection along with other pet skills as soon as the pet is out of the game.
However, I feel strongly against have every single skill locked for any amout of time. This (to me) leassons the diversity of anyone that would like to have an animal companion as it forces them to consentrate on the survival of the pet before anything else, least the beastmaster becomes completely ineffective for some about of time.
What I mean is, if you have a pet, you better center yourself around him and not use him as a flavorable addition to your skill set. If you dont focus on your pet, then he will cost you.
I feel your pets death should penelize you your pet skills, but not throw you out of the game (unless your game is your pet, in which case you probably had better odds of this not happening to you)

thats all...

Why it's a good idea to penalize a master on pet death:

Monks with pets.
Warriors with pets.
Elementalists with pets.
Mesmers with pets.
Necromancers with pets.
Non-beastmaster rangers with pets.

[ ]

Goonter · Jun 14, 2005, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Im not sure I understand what you mean. Are you agreeing with me or are you explaining why all skills locked is important?

Phaedrus · Jun 14, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Im not sure I understand what you mean. Are you agreeing with me or are you explaining why all skills locked is important?

Sorry, my snarkiness limited my communication. :P

There is no counter-balance if it doesn't lock all skills on pet death. Charm animal gives you a second means of attack, defense, and support...so I don't want to hear that it's a waste of a skill slot. If it *didn't* lock all skills on the skill bar, you'd see a surge in Ranger subclass characters who only had the ranger sub for a pet. That would double the size of a pvp or pve group with no penalty since none of these people would equip beast mastery skills! That's incredibly unfair...eight level 20 pets, even at level 1 beast mastery, would easily overwhelm opponents. If nothing else, they create a wall an opposing team or monster simply cannot pass. That's incredibly unbalancing.

[ ]

Magus · Jun 14, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

I do agree that pets are underpowered, but not extremely underpowered. I used mine as a tank, (I'm not sure if this is their intended use) to keep the mobs at a distance from me while I could attack from range. This works very well at the beginning of the game, however, I believe the pets' health does not grow as fast as it should (I only used a Melandru's stalker and Warthog, I'm not sure if other animals have different stats) and as the game progressed, the pet's relative usefulness gradually decreased. There isn't a hard benchmark where pets become useless, but shortly after ascension, any arrow or support build becomes much better than using pets, even if they are level 20.

Perhaps giving pets slightly more health increases for level ups will make pets better. This means that at lower levels, the increases won't really affect them (I think pets are fine earlier on in the game), but at higher levels, the gradual increases will build up and give them at least some decent survival. I still think that pets should penalize the owner both for dying and for resurrection, and by making pets harder to kill, the problem of them constantly dying can be alleviated. Like Phaedrus said, having pet deaths penalize the owner makes pets more meaningful, and I think by making pets survive better makes pets more useful for those who actually want to use a pet, but won't make them usable by people who don't want to use a pet seriously.

ComMan · Jun 14, 2005, 01:07 AM // 01:07

There needs to be a balance between cost and reward. Pets cost you attribute points, skill slots, and they force you to risk having your skills disabled.

They give you some advantages, but those are negated by the fact that your pet can (and will) be killed before you can say "crap!" If they could actually stay alive long enough to do something, then they might be worthwhile.

Goonter · Jun 14, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Phaedrus,
I dont think that charm animal is a waste of a skill slot. I agree with you in that aspact. My suggestions were for helping owners control thier pet and I think that the charm animal skill is just the thing to do it.
I do also see your point about the overwhelming force pets can make. And I can see why, by your example, how all skill locked is nessacary. (I wonder if there is no other alternative? Have all the angles been viewed and all the possiblities been exhausted?)
Needless to say, the setup the game currently has, your right.

Besides that. All my other ideas rock. ... or maybe not?
Lets see what people think.

Phaedrus · Jun 14, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

Phaedrus,
I dont think that charm animal is a waste of a skill slot. I agree with you in that aspact. My suggestions were for helping owners control thier pet and I think that the charm animal skill is just the thing to do it.
I do also see your point about the overwhelming force pets can make. And I can see why, by your example, how all skill locked is nessacary. (I wonder if there is no other alternative? Have all the angles been viewed and all the possiblities been exhausted?)
Needless to say, the setup the game currently has, your right.

Besides that. All my other ideas rock. ... or maybe not?
Lets see what people think.

I owe you another apology...I tend to approve something by not saying anything. :P

Your other ideas are pretty good. There are many threads about pet/npc management...I personally don't think it should be managed through a skill. There should simply be commands like "All-out attack target" and "Defend this ally" you can map to keys. You select the appropritate target, hit your key, your henchies or pet does what you say. For instance, I should be able to tell Orion not to firestorm unless I freaking say so. Likewise, I should be able to tell Eve to blood ritual a cleric.

So your ideas are good, but I'd rather see them implemented universally instead of just for pets.

[ ]

Weezer_Blue · Jun 14, 2005, 01:27 AM // 01:27

The only thing that will make pets better is if they can do considerably more damage than the ranger himself (using beastmastery skills). This is for one simple reason: Why they hell would you want to use bad AI to do your bidding while standing back using bad skills to do horrible damage? Exactly. This is way all rangers should avoid Beast Mastery.

Phaedrus · Jun 14, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

The only thing that will make pets better is if they can do considerably more damage than the ranger himself (using beastmastery skills). This is for one simple reason: Why they hell would you want to use bad AI to do your bidding while standing back using bad skills to do horrible damage? Exactly. This is way all rangers should avoid Beast Mastery.

Probably because if a warrior, a ranger, and a bear are all attacking one target, the victim probably won't realize which is doing all the bleeding/interrupting when the warrior starts getting diverted by his team.

Wow, that sounded like it was going to be a bad bar joke.

[ ]