Curse

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

So here is the issue that I believe should be taken into consideration: I cannot find a reasonable way to command my henchmen to do what I ask.

Case in point: Bloodstone Fen. I cannot run the bonus with anyone but a healer because my NPC's kill the guardians since they are deemed hostile mobs.

Second case: When I want to sneak around to watch mob patrols, or run away when badness happens (i.e. any encounter at The Wilds mission) I would like the NPC's to work as a team with me and any human players I have. Instead the NPC's continue the battle until I'm far enough away for them to go "oh, your leaving?" and follow me. By then they're usually dead or dying.

What I'd love to see is a simple number command system or something. That would be great. For instances:

1. Fight my targets: normal behavior I'd guess
2. Concentrated attack: NPC's fight my target and "stick" on it until its dead (rather then constantly switching to my target). Great for spell casters that want to spread the love of pain across a group of mob's w/o having the fighter henchies constantly moving between targets dealing 0 damage because they're walking so much.
3. Help me! : Switch to my target immediatley, or start healing me if that's your primary job.
4. Run Away: Concentrate on running, using defensive spells (haste, heal, etc.) to save yourself and get out as fast as possible.
5. Wait for it: Follow me, make no attacks (enchanting party/healing is an exception) and do not even attack if you are attacked.
6. Defensive: Keep the party alive, fighting is secondary.

Does that sound good? I've not seen anything like this in the current system. I have heard tons of my guild members complain that at high levels "npcs are not an option" and sometimes you just want to play alone w/o hoping you get a good group of people. Sometimes NPC's are better then humans because even in there current mode they listen better :-)

Sorry if this is a double post somewhere, I searched for the topic in a few forums before posting.

CodeMonkey

Ba Ne · Jun 13, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

/signs

I don't know how many times the warrior henchmen aggro'd/attacked another mob when I wanted to hang back and heal up for a minute.

DarrenJasper · Jun 13, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Sounds great and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if this went in before the expansion, since it's such a huge issue on the forums and has been for a while. They may be taking their time to get it working right before releasing it.

I think it's in their interest to get this in-game since right now strictly solo players are at something of a disadvantage because of it, as you mentioned.

corax5 · Jun 13, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Iv always thought that henchmen commands would be great, even if its just something like stop and follow, it would make life alot easier.

slasc · Jun 13, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I think it would make sense for them to have a popup menu on the party listing that would give you options for commands for the henchmen. (they might even allow those same options to exist for humans so that one person (maybe the target caller) could govern the battle with simple, preset commands. (they could just pop up the commands on screen)

(Also, the party list NEEDS energy readings)

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by slasc

I think it would make sense for them to have a popup menu on the party listing that would give you options for commands for the henchmen. (they might even allow those same options to exist for humans so that one person (maybe the target caller) could govern the battle with simple, preset commands. (they could just pop up the commands on screen)

(Also, the party list NEEDS energy readings)

If they added a small subset of icons to the members list that were present/enabled when one or more henchies were in the party that would work too (with optional key binds).

So you could have the names/health listed:

-----------------------------------

codemonkey: [ ] 100%
bob: [ ] 80%
Orion henchmen [ ] 80%
[stay] [attack] [run] [...] [...]
-----------------------------------

Where instead of "stay" and "run" were symbolic icons (perhaps a guy running away) with tool tips that stated what they do "Call party to run."

Clicking on the icons could also play an animation (if your not currently running yourself) with a text blob stating your command so that non-henchies could follow the direction as well.

NOTE: Only party leader should be able to do this given that everyone telling NPC's what to do would be worse then what currently exists ;-)

CodeMonkey

Jigs · Jun 13, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Agree w/ the henchmen commands. as a W/R, i switch to bow to pull an enemy from a big mob, but then the the henchmens are running to the enemy and only in few seconds, they are dead. I have to restart again.

I know some of ppl will say to me that I should play w/ other ppl, well i do that too but there are times that it's hard to get someone so Henchies will do.

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Also, another cool update would be that when a henchmen finds themselves stuck for over 8 seconds they should be insta-telported back to the head party member. I cannot count the times I entered a battle and then found my NPC healer a quarter mile back stuck on a shurb or mountain curb.

Of course path finding for that may need to be tweaked, there should always be a "last resort" to get the NPC out of trouble. This was a bigger issue when I'd respawn from death and my healer would fly off into the water and refuse to die (leaving me stranded after the next time I died)

CodeMonkey
PS: Picked 8 seconds because statistically speaking people get restless if 8 seconds pass without they're desired request (ie. web-page load, process execution like M$ Word, etc.).

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jigs

Agree w/ the henchmen commands. as a W/R, i switch to bow to pull an enemy from a big mob, but then the the henchmens are running to the enemy and only in few seconds, they are dead. I have to restart again.

I know some of ppl will say to me that I should play w/ other ppl, well i do that too but there are times that it's hard to get someone so Henchies will do.

An, to be frank, many people lack the direction to listen. I've tried The Wilds with a group of players (and my wife) and we died every single time. My wife and I did it with henchmen and were successful (both bonus and primary).

Why? Because even though NPC fighters use haste and run up and fight...they stay back when you stay back (before you click an enemy). I can't say that for humans. Human warriors fight one battle, move to the next regardless of danger and monk's energy regeneration times.

I.e. "hold, need to let my energy raise..."
(3 warriors run down path after Centaur Maguum Warriors, Warlock, and three Protectors).
"nevermind... I'll just rez you when your dead"
(warriors all die, bringing centaurs at party and destory us all)
[end mission]

CodeMonkey

Diplo · Jun 13, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Good idea, CodeMonkey, I'd definitely be for this.

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diplo

Good idea, CodeMonkey, I'd definitely be for this.

My qualifications as a GUI tester, a network software engineer, and a game programmer (for 2 failed game startups) is paying off ;-)

CodeMonkey

Holoman · Jun 13, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Yes, we definately need more control over henchmen. Totally agree with the OP.

Creston · Jun 13, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by codemonkey

Also, another cool update would be that when a henchmen finds themselves stuck for over 8 seconds they should be insta-telported back to the head party member. I cannot count the times I entered a battle and then found my NPC healer a quarter mile back stuck on a shurb or mountain curb.

I was thinking the exact same thing last night, after BOTH Thom AND Stefan were hung up on a teleporter switch... Their pathfinding AI is about as good as that of my blind and deaf gerbil...

I was also wondering about henchmen commands, I do hope that gets put in. Furthermore, they need to change Alesia's AI. Or take away her weapon. She is attacking when she SHOULD BE HEALING.

Three ettins will be left with her and Reyna, and instead of trying to ress someone, she'll fire with her idiot wand, doing 1 damage against a 400 hitpoint ettin. Or at the least, she SHOULD BE HEALING REYNA, who's taking 100dps.
AARRGGHH.

I do hope they fix this / change this soon.

Creston

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Well the exception is that the AI should not rez when the battle is really not going to be won. I've had this occur:

1. I die battling 5 ettins, stone crusher, and sage.
2. 80% of the party is dead, all but healer really.
3. Healer rezes me, and I get 33% of my health.
4. I die in a single hit from an Ettin and they're warrior attack.
5. Healer dies.

Now i'm sitting pretty with two death penalties when really I just wanted the healer to commit suicide

So -30% rather then a nice stock -15% for doing nothing but losing pulse.

CodeMonkey

Epinephrine · Jun 13, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Control over AI is good, but WHO controls it? Can anyone? I suspect you want the party leader in charge of it, really. Solo with henchmen makes sense to have some commands, even if it is as simple as a "wait" command and a "release" command, which can be the same button, just toggling their state. I'd really like the option to NOT have them follow my character's attacks - it's fine for the non-support classes, but as a mesmer/necromancer/ranger trying to shut down casters, weaken various groups or spread conditions it is just stupid to have the AI keep disengaging to try to run over to the guy I am powerleaking/weakening/poisoning. If I played El, Mo or W I'd probably be fine with the AI, but I don't.

Wouldn't it be nice if when you announce "I am using Well of Blood" the henchmen bothered to step into it? Or that Alesia wouldn't try to do her healing job from the comfortable numbness of a diseased swamp?

Creston · Jun 13, 2005, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by codemonkey

Well the exception is that the AI should not rez when the battle is really not going to be won. I've had this occur:

1. I die battling 5 ettins, stone crusher, and sage.
2. 80% of the party is dead, all but healer really.
3. Healer rezes me, and I get 33% of my health.
4. I die in a single hit from an Ettin and they're warrior attack.
5. Healer dies.

Now i'm sitting pretty with two death penalties when really I just wanted the healer to commit suicide

So -30% rather then a nice stock -15% for doing nothing but losing pulse.

CodeMonkey

While it's possible that this will happen, you will not get a -30. DP that comes within xx amount of time from a res, won't stack. This happened to me last night, and I was still at -15.
In my example, I wanted her to keep ressing reyna. Reyna has pretty decent armor, and she was holding her own against the ettins. Had Alesia simply kept healing her, there would have been no problem.

This raises another problem, however, that of the skill that Alesia uses to Ress...

Creston

Creston · Jun 13, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Wouldn't it be nice if when you announce "I am using Well of Blood" the henchmen bothered to step into it? Or that Alesia wouldn't try to do her healing job from the comfortable numbness of a diseased swamp?

Well of Blood is an acquired skill to use with the henchies. It works well on keeping Thom and Stefan alive (have them tank 3 critters, they kill one, use well of blood, they will keep tanking the other two critters), but for your other party members it's useless. Sadly...

Alesia healing from a poisoned swamp just goes to show how totally braindead the AI is for her

Creston

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Control over AI is good, but WHO controls it? Can anyone? I suspect you want the party leader in charge of it, really. Solo with henchmen makes sense to have some commands, even if it is as simple as a "wait" command and a "release" command, which can be the same button, just toggling their state. I'd really like the option to NOT have them follow my character's attacks - it's fine for the non-support classes, but as a mesmer/necromancer/ranger trying to shut down casters, weaken various groups or spread conditions it is just stupid to have the AI keep disengaging to try to run over to the guy I am powerleaking/weakening/poisoning. If I played El, Mo or W I'd probably be fine with the AI, but I don't.

Wouldn't it be nice if when you announce "I am using Well of Blood" the henchmen bothered to step into it? Or that Alesia wouldn't try to do her healing job from the comfortable numbness of a diseased swamp?

My rant was long, I know. At the end I stated:

"NOTE: Only party leader should be able to do this given that everyone telling NPC's what to do would be worse then what currently exists ;-)"

Just to make sure the conflict stays sane

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

While it's possible that this will happen, you will not get a -30. DP that comes within xx amount of time from a res, won't stack. This happened to me last night, and I was still at -15.
In my example, I wanted her to keep ressing reyna. Reyna has pretty decent armor, and she was holding her own against the ettins. Had Alesia simply kept healing her, there would have been no problem.

This raises another problem, however, that of the skill that Alesia uses to Ress...

Creston

I've had this happen to me and I did receive -30%. Maybe it was fixed since. This was about a month ago that it occured.

CodeMonkey

codemonkey · Jun 13, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creston

Well of Blood is an acquired skill to use with the henchies. It works well on keeping Thom and Stefan alive (have them tank 3 critters, they kill one, use well of blood, they will keep tanking the other two critters), but for your other party members it's useless. Sadly...

Alesia healing from a poisoned swamp just goes to show how totally braindead the AI is for her

Creston

Yeah, but given you cannot outfit them with they're skills (that would be really cool if you could pick a set of templates for things like "condition protection", "healing protection", "smiting") you have to deal with what that healer has. Which is a butt load of healing, so that's how she deals w/ poison.

CodeMonkey