Curse

AviX · Jun 14, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59

level cap is just fine

how about....harder missions & bigger parties for them ?

StandardAI · Jun 14, 2005, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalii

"All of us"? Some of us have beaten the game. Many infact. Some of us play PvP. And some of us still don't have a problem with grind, level caps, or enjoyability. Please stop making assumptions that we don't know what we're talking about.

You've beaten the game how many times?

Your reply:
"Well... Uhm... Uh I havn't beaten it yet but like um... my friends brother has and he's said that there's no grind so there!!!11111111!"

Be honest, you don't know what we're talking about when we talk about grind, so don't argue against something you don't know anything about.

xaanix · Jun 14, 2005, 10:04 AM // 10:04

The real question is how much xp is on your primary character. I'm personally only at 600k cause i have a low tolerance for grinding. I know a few poeple with over 1mil xp, and yeah, they'll all tell you its grind.

Sol Invictus · Jun 14, 2005, 10:10 AM // 10:10

I've ascended twice and I'm going for my third. I'm not getting bored with the game.

ThundrGod · Jun 14, 2005, 10:12 AM // 10:12

I've only beaten the game once and refuse to do it with another character because it was only mildly entertaining the first time I did it. I would have voted against an UAS button before beating the game and wanting to pvp as well. However, my options upon logging in now are:

1) PvP with my crappy pve char

2) Use a crappy pre-built char

3) Beat the game again with more chars

4) Grind out xp to unlock more skills

I choose none of the above as they are NO fun, I will wait until either Anet pulls their head out and realizes no one wants to play their lacking pve content 4 or 5 times or BF2 comes out, wanna bet which one happens first?

Old Dood · Jun 14, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I haven't had the time to read all the posts. There are some good ideas here though from the ones I have read.

I would like to see a "Bulletin Board" of some sort. Simular to one you would see Downtown with advertisments. So you do not have to sit there and bark out "WTS Blah Blah Blah", or Guild Ads, etc.

Lalii · Jun 14, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

You've beaten the game how many times?

Your reply:
"Well... Uhm... Uh I havn't beaten it yet but like um... my friends brother has and he's said that there's no grind so there!!!11111111!"

Be honest, you don't know what we're talking about when we talk about grind, so don't argue against something you don't know anything about.

I see you've decided that it's easier to insult than to post anything of significance or try and give a mature opinion on anything. You still keep falling back on 'how many times'. Sorry, to disappoint but only once for me. I don't feel the need to rush through, so my other characters are having just a dandy time actually playing a game. If you want power gaming go to WoW or D2. I'm done with this pathetic 'mine is bigger than yours' contest, so feel free to fling more insults, just don't expect a resonse. The bottom line is that it's not doomed to obscurity like you suggest since not everyone is in it for the power.

Mr. Matt · Jun 14, 2005, 11:07 AM // 11:07

There's nothing 'wrong' with the 'heart' of Guild Wars. The only time I'm not 'happy' with it is when I come into a forum and read all the whining from minorities trying to get the game changed to fit their own particular style, at the expense of the majority who don't come to forums to whinge and whine. And then it's not the heart of the game I'm unhappy with, just the people who play it. Thank god for henchmen, is all I can say.

eventhorizen · Jun 14, 2005, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by StandardAI

Actually, it hints that I know the reality of this game. Last saturday I was doing a rush with Karma and Fianna, two of the best guilds in guildwars, karma is one of the best guilds at doing these runs, and it was just so unbearable doing the desert a 3rd time. Now we did it in the most optimized way possible so I find it unrealistic that new guilds that aren't as capable or don't have a real history are going to be able to do it as fast as us, or as bearable as we did it. Please don't make any posts in regards to unlocking or grind if you have yet to ascend twice. Only guilds with a deep history like n0 for example can stand the grind, but a majority of the people who bought this game for whatever reason really can't stand beating the game four or more times. We were all under the impression it was skill over time played, I see you want us to grind for 500 hours but in reality we were all under the impression we'd be able to have a girlfriend, a job, and be in a top guild at the same time. You on the other hand think that time played should compensate for a lack of ones skill, which is fine but that wasn't what was printed on our boxes.

No tard I said Id be playing Guild Wars long after you have thrown the towel in.

Hours played should never beat skill, thats why I dont complain about grind. I dont hook up with the uberest bestest guilds in the whole wide world to rush through high level areas repeatedly for whatever reason.

Im neither a farmer, a grinder, nor a whiner. I have level 12 characters sporting major runes, and max damage weaponry, because in the course of playing Guild Wars iv come across those items and managed to get a decent amount of coin. You think your somehow above me in Guild Wars? Even though admittadly you farm and grind as much as possible? If you hang around with a good Guild, which I dont, then you could have absolutly no skill at all and still win.

Have you tried to ascend with henchmen? Im in the European servers, where these uber guilds are not, and im finding getting good groups difficult. Only yesterday I had to fight those sand giants solo because my henchies were up to their old tricks of dying, not teleporting, or running away through rocks etc. Getting to thirsty river with henchmen is grind Ill tell you, not blitzing the desert with the best guilds in game.

Perhaps these uber guilds you speak off would be willing to help me out?

Anyway, you seem to dislike grinding, yet you repeatedly do the same areas over and over? You say the game should be about skill and not time played, whereas iv repeatedly owned PvP only characters with a lvl 17 Necro/mesmer.
You say maxing out on things is a grind, and is required, when my unascended Wa/Mo in GvG outdamages most pvp only Elementalists! Yes thats true, beleive it or not.

Skill is where it counts, if you dont think so you really are a fool. Best items, best weapons, best armor are ofcourse desirable, but if you are really good at GW you can make up for their lack.
If you dont think you can make up for a lack of items by skill thats your problem.

Btw ascending TWICE (lol) with the help of some of the best guilds ingame is far from an achievment chump. Try ascending with henchmen. And if you want to say youv spent more time playing, or have higher individual skill go right ahead.

At the end of the day your the exact person people in the game dislike the most. You whine and farm, grind and b1tch. People like me play. If I want to go look for something uber i will, if I want to do HoH I will, if I want to make a new character I will. You think grinding stinks, so do I. I laugh at you admitting hanging around with good guilds, and hoping that makes you look skilled. It makes me wonder why you cant do it solo for more rewards yourself. After all you think your uber.

asdar · Jun 14, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

I think you're whack on most of your PvE assumptions but maybe that's a reverse generalization.

I think what every max level PvE character wants, and many lower level characters are dungeons, or what passes for them in GW.

Half the PvE I talk to are bored with the levels and missions by 15 and just want to get to Fissure and underworld. That's two lousy locations. Most people like the missions I think but we want more places that are difficult to fight.

Everyone says levelling is the staple of the RPG genre but I think it's the focused fighting that goes on in dungeons. I want more difficulty in an exciting and unique environment.

I do PvP a bit and enjoy it a great deal. I see nothing wrong with having two completely different games, one PvP with everything unlocked and the other RP or PvE.

I completely understand the desire to level up your character through hard work and test that character against others. I'd have an RP only Arena and even HoH. Split them up totally.

Ninna · Jun 14, 2005, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

I think you're whack on most of your PvE assumptions but maybe that's a reverse generalization.

I think what every max level PvE character wants, and many lower level characters are dungeons, or what passes for them in GW.

I love dungeons

Uzul · Jun 14, 2005, 12:29 PM // 12:29

if instant-lvl20's get uas/uar i want those chars EXCLUDED from the pve content - i don't know but i guess you can go to dragon's lair with an instant_toon and start playing through the shiverpeaks (the route rankor->beacon's is to get back to the continent) - there comes in sth like roleplayer's pride: if they want uas for pvp: then pvp shall all they can do - additionally i want an arena for rpg-chars only# don't tell sth about unbalanced etc - i know and i don't care: rpging is sth else...

maybe this sounds rude but i don't want to party up with an instant-character who has everything from the start. i am way too much of a roleplayer, that's why i got no problem with finding my stuff even if it takes a while...

cap at 20 is just fine - i wish there was sth that lets the hero page count your lvls beyond 20.... for personal pleasure

i only have my huuuge amounts of experience points.

Uzul · Jun 14, 2005, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Matt

There's nothing 'wrong' with the 'heart' of Guild Wars. The only time I'm not 'happy' with it is when I come into a forum and read all the whining from minorities trying to get the game changed to fit their own particular style, at the expense of the majority who don't come to forums to whinge and whine. And then it's not the heart of the game I'm unhappy with, just the people who play it. Thank god for henchmen, is all I can say.

so true (heading back to tyria this second ^^)

RMThompson · Jun 14, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

First of all, raising the level cap is NOT neccesary, and if they do 50 would be RIDICULOUS. I think MAYBE 25, and the ability to have more attribute points with those would be fine, but nothing higher for now. We shouldn't be as high as the highest baddies in the game.

BUT - The part of that ramble I thought the most hilarious was that you wanted all PVP items/weapons/skills unlocked NOW, and then 2 lines later asked for a more rewarding PvP! LOL What's LEFT?!

They DO need a better PvP system, but not these big drastic changes. I think that it would be neat if you and your guild could fight ANOTHER guild for items, such as a Celestial Signet, nice gold items, or even gold.

Also the halls should be more like cities, with a merchant, and DEFINITLEY a Storage person!

I think the BEST addition to Guilds would be to allow practice matches against your OWN members, like a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, etc etc... In the hall could be a battle arena, and whatever members touch the statue on one side join team A and the other B...

Just my thoughts!

Unik · Jun 14, 2005, 12:38 PM // 12:38

What I find amusing here and in every other discussion about this subject, is that both sides feel a need to jump to any extreme they can find to either make or discredit a point.

In the time span of a few post we fallback to *If you don’t like it…LEAVE* or of course some of our favourites, the pve care bare comment or hardcore power pvper ones. Not only is this not helping it’s probably making Anet’s job that much more difficult to gage and therefore respond.

Many will use arguments or compare it to other games, this is not only pointless but as no relation whatsoever to the existing problem with GW, but does related to how the game was presented and marketed. This game sold as a skill over time based game and yet it’s turning out to be considerably time consuming for many players from casual to fairly active ones that want to pvp.

I consider myself as an active player and I do enjoy both sides of the game evenly, I have beaten the game with one character and have a second character around level 15 now. I did enjoy the missions the first time but do find them less enjoyable the second time around.

I would like to take the advice of just enjoying the game at this point, but you know what I thought enjoying the game meant I could play the game how I wanted. Yes I would enjoy a nice gvg battles and Tomb runs at this point as it would be a change of pace, Problem is if I do, I have little to no flexibility in the pvp characters I can create at this point, I can play an El/R with effective skills and no major or superior runes or use the pre-mades and btw did change my second profession on my first character to try and speed up the process, but of course ran out of skill points.

I hear you and agree that one or even two members on and well organised and skilled team with less than the best equipment won’t make that much of a difference, but lets be honest if that number on the team goes up to 6 (as it does in more casual guilds) then the difference does become significant to the point of preventing your team to be competitive or flexible.

Those of us asking to make the grind of unlocking skills and anything else for pvp disappear just want the same, to enjoy the game and to answer those who are tossing out the just leave argument, some of us have already left, just look at how many guilds are starting to talk about the non-active player base in their guilds, that’s your first sign.

Why some of us are pissed and are complaining is quite easy, we were marketed a game and sold a different one, I would be curious to see the reaction of some if people were forced to pve with one certain type of character with no flexibility and why not toss in no customisation as dye or anything else. Could you just enjoy the game? Better yet what if in order to pve you had to go trough a couple of months of pvp, how about then? And don’t forget this will repeat when expansions come out every six months.

In the case of GW since no monthly fees are charged the income will come from the expansions if you loose a large % of your player base between release and the first expansion, this is clearly not a good sign and will only mean less money to put in to further development and less chances of a great game in the end any side.

Personally I think Anet should simply come out and let the player base know ahead of time what angle they are working on to solve this, keeping us in the dark at this point doesn’t seem to be working at all, maybe it would allow a better discussion if we had something tangible to discuss and in the worst case it will at least make the flaming and arguing more targeted.

Just my two cents.

Unik

RMThompson · Jun 14, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

I think the biggest problem with GW right now is the lack of help from A.Net.. there is no easily accesible complaint area, like an in game help that most games have. The manual is weak, and without the content of sites like this, some things would NEVER be found out... which is OK for most of us, but its been said only 25% of players visit the forums

Zelnox · Jun 14, 2005, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninna

I love dungeons

^_^ me too. There is one coming soon.

eventhorizen · Jun 14, 2005, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Look individual skills dont make a character, any character. Its skill combos, how you use them, when you use them, and how they operate in a group.
You might have 8 uber skills sitting on your bar, only to realise you couldnt swat a fly at a yard, let alone nuke a monk in HoH. You might have 8 average skills, but theyre complemenary and when used correctly when the opportunity arises you completely fk up one, two, maybe even the whole opposing team if your trully skilled.

You do not need all the desert only skills/armor/elites to be able to compete. what you need is a character that does a job well. Many many times iv created PvP only characters using skills iv unlocked just to whet my appetite for what awaits me when I ascend, and to tell you the truth the improvement is minor.

Iv barely altered my skill bar on my main character since I reached Lions Arch with it. Why? Because the combo I use on it I have yet to better. For the job I use it for. I suffer from not being in a Guild that sits down and studies builds hard to come up with properly complementary teams. This might force me to switch servers at some point in order to achieve this, but not yet. Iv yet to join a fight where I could not fulfill some role adequetly if not (imodesty) well.

There is no reason why the skill you unlock relativly early in a specific builds PvE game cannot be of use to you in a PvP character only. In my experiance if you give skilled craftsman shoddy tools he can make an adequete product. the same applies here. Even if the skill selection is crap, if the player is good they should atleast cancel out.

Granted HoH is another level of competitive play, but having said that do you expect a good player to use a build fo which he has not skills? No. In my experiance if you have not got an ascended character, but have a decent knowledge, and a decent set of skills, you are better than most that play.

All this talk of 'eliteness' cracks me up. Do you honestly believe you can hope to compete anywhere, be it online gaming, or anywhere, without effort?
If you want to be the very best, and compete at the very highest level with every single skill item and peice of armor then you simply must accept the game, and master all of it. If you do not want to, moan that something is preventing you, whatever then you are NOT at that level. Simple.

Blaming what is a great game for your inability for whatever reason, or taking your frustrations at not being uber in all aspects now out on games is childish. It happens in all games whether people have a point or not. They bring fairness, competitivness, time wasting, gameplay balance etc. all into the mix, when its clear for anyone to see Guild Wars is simply not that flawed.

Some would say its hardly flawed at all (me), but to argue thats it gravely flawed, will die soon, and is an absolute bore is simply a joke. Whats games do you play that makes you draw these conclusion? They sound like booze and chemicals on a CD, I must get me some...

Not having THAT skill, or THAT item is not a game breaker. For god sake in a fight itself youll have to deal with a lot more pressure than a missing skill and still come out on top. what you going to do then? Blame A.net for multiple massive elemental damage? ask for mesmers to be nerfed because they keep shutting down your monks?

If you want it, go and get it. If you dont want to go through the trials to get it, dont do it. If you cant get it dont come here and whine about a ruined game.

Lalii · Jun 14, 2005, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unik

Why some of us are pissed and are complaining is quite easy, we were marketed a game and sold a different one, I would be curious to see the reaction of some if people were forced to pve with one certain type of character with no flexibility and why not toss in no customisation as dye or anything else. Could you just enjoy the game? Better yet what if in order to pve you had to go trough a couple of months of pvp, how about then? And don’t forget this will repeat when expansions come out every six months.

This is the part I'm unclear on. Only because I'd been following the developement from the start and it meets every expectation I had. Now considering this is the first MMORPG I've played (and bought my computer for) I don't have a lot to compare it to as far as other games go, except from watching and listening to my friends play others like WoW and such.

It may be simply because I was mainly interested in the RPG part of them game, as I'm an RPG girl all the way, but I can say with all confidence that Guild Wars lives up to my expectations and satisfys what it said it was going to.

But what can I say, I'm just not a big fan of PvP. So as long as they don't change the PvE part of the game by doing drastic things like raising the level cap or anything like then, then I'll be happy. But when I become more interested in PvP I know I'll still have the enthusiam to keep playing over and over until I unlock everything I want.

Mak · Jun 14, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

My thoughts,

Keep level cap, have more unique items (cosmetic only), and there really needs to be some kind of reward for beating the game. I mean come on Anet I get 1 skill point and 1000 exp, the same thing I've been getting since defending the Northern wall, what a let down. When you beat the game it would be nice if you we got to unlock all skills for our primary and secondary professions. Then you will have that sense of satisfaction that you have been rewarded for saving the world. It would also reduce the grind. I am dreading bringing my second character out of pre-searing, argh, seared Ascalon deppressed me the first time. I am not one of these obessive compulsive gamers who enjoys beating a game multiple times.

Right now with my skill set I can only play two types of charcaters effectively in PvP. This is a problem, because I would like to play PvP full time now that I beat the game and a team build may require a different skill set than what I have.