Curse

Laurelin Goldtree · Jun 12, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

Rangers have SOME excellent abilities, but they are not as good as other classes.

The only ADVANTAGE I've actually found to being a Ranger in PvP, is that most people don't care about you. Which means that I can walk past an attacking team in the Tombs and attack (usually failing to kill) their priest unopposed. Not exactly effective, but really irritating.

I can't really comment on anything you've said concerning PvP. Right now, I'm just worried about the storyline aspect of the game. But it's obvious that you have not played nor correctly built a Ranger. I have to toot my own horn here because I attempted the following with my W/N and failed MISERABLY, and yet, I made it with my R/Mo, NOT using any healing skills (the only Monk skill I have is Resurrect): I completed the following Missions with my level 12 R/Mo and 5 henchmen: Gates of Kryta, D'Alessio Seaboard, Divinty Coast, The Wilds, Bloodstone Fen, Aurora Glade, Riverside Province, and Sanctum Cay. I am currently attempting Thirsty River with Henchmen, as well. (I am now level 16, btw).

We all know how henchmen work-they attack what you attack. To know that I can make it that far with henchmen shows me that Rangers are leaders and excellent attack forces. True, their power is more subtle. A Warrior might knock you down for a second but blind him, poison him, distract him when he's ready to heal himself and watch what happens. An Elementalist may rain fire on you, but we all know they're useless without Energy-so relieve them of their power and watch the tides turn.

It really bothers me that people Ranger and Necro bash-They are, by far, my 2 favorite classes in GW. Rangers and Necromancers both have such a wide array skills, they're almost impossible to predict-but with so many people making their Rangers exactly the same, yeah, they're going to be easy to work against-there are no surprises.

So, Rangers Unite! Surprise the Arenas! Let's show them what we're made of!

Sting · Jun 12, 2005, 03:31 AM // 03:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

That is silly. Rangers can work with their team just like any other class. It's usually just a matter of communication, especially if others don't know how your ranger is capable of helping them. Wilderness survival is an excellent attribute for helping your team.

One more thing. I wouldn't say barrage is the best ranger skill in the game.

I would say your right, BUT when you cant even get people to attack the same target let alone not to chase after someone then its a mute point.

Tellani Artini · Jun 12, 2005, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting

I would say your right, BUT when you cant even get people to attack the same target let alone not to chase after someone then its a mute point.

Then your team deserves to lose to a more organized team to begin with. What professions DO work well in such a charlie foxtrot?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComMan

One of the biggest problems with GW's PvP (IMO), is that people don't want or NEED support classes. 5 Air Elementalists can spike anyone to death, regardless of anything

That's funny, I've seen so many air ele spike builds torn to shreds by rituals: Fertile Season, Nature's Renewal, Quickening Zephyr. Spikers sputter when they lose attunement, their spells cost 30% more, and their targets have twice as much health as usual. We don't even use elementalists, and only 2 healing monks, and spike builds have never been more than a nuisance. Teams can choose to play without any support classes, but they shouldn't be surprised when their obvious, cookie-cutter tactics are countered by teams with support classes, such as rangers. The funniest part, I think, is that often they have no idea what's going on. You get accused of cheating fairly often with rituals, because so many people have no idea what they do. Meanwhile, the rangers are pumping out debil shots, poison, and bow nukes at will, since they've pumped expertise to make up for zephyr.

Sting · Jun 12, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

Then your team deserves to lose to a more organized team to begin with. What professions DO work well in such a charlie foxtrot?

Well I dont have a big guild to get a HoH group. And spending an hour or so wait for a PUG isnt fun I play mainly 4v4. And you try telling your team no dont attack them I put my trap here or my spirit here LOL theyd laugh at ya.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 12, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sting

Well I dont have a big guild to get a HoH group. And spending an hour or so wait for a PUG isnt fun I play mainly 4v4. And you try telling your team no dont attack them I put my trap here or my spirit here LOL theyd laugh at ya.

I saw an intelligent ranger that put the traps on a bridge, so when we inevitably retreated across, the enemy got skewered

Sting · Jun 12, 2005, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManadartheHealer

I saw an intelligent ranger that put the traps on a bridge, so when we inevitably retreated across, the enemy got skewered

Yeah bridges are ok but bringing in a skill that at best cant be used that often because you have to place them where you think they will go. You could place them in the middle of the battle but its easily interupted. So its to conditional for much practicality especailly in HoH but it just my opinion.

ComMan · Jun 12, 2005, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tellani Artini

That's funny, I've seen so many air ele spike builds torn to shreds by rituals: Fertile Season, Nature's Renewal, Quickening Zephyr. Spikers sputter when they lose attunement, their spells cost 30% more, and their targets have twice as much health as usual. We don't even use elementalists, and only 2 healing monks, and spike builds have never been more than a nuisance. Teams can choose to play without any support classes, but they shouldn't be surprised when their obvious, cookie-cutter tactics are countered by teams with support classes, such as rangers. The funniest part, I think, is that often they have no idea what's going on. You get accused of cheating fairly often with rituals, because so many people have no idea what they do. Meanwhile, the rangers are pumping out debil shots, poison, and bow nukes at will, since they've pumped expertise to make up for zephyr.

I've seen pickup groups call spirits, so I think you're being just a tidbit arrogent there. Rituals are one of the few things that set Rangers apart, I'll grant you that, but you have to consider that they work against you just as easily. You're depriving your team of everything you deprive the enemy of, and giving them all of the same advantages.

I want to hear more about these "bow nukes." I'm aware that I suck, but apparently the "uber" rangers that make up 90% of the community elude me just out of spite. I've never been hit for more than 60-70 damage by a Ranger, which every other class has managed to pull off. Hell, I've been hit for 100 by every class except Necromancers and Rangers. So what is a "bow nuke," exactly?

As for traps in the Comp. Arena, I've seen Barbed Trap used effectivly here and there. When you do find a team that plays defensive, it works. Despite my distate for the other traps, I will give credit to people who can use that one effectivly.

Lauren, PvE is nothing to gauge by. I learned that real quick when I thought I was good. I did some of the Ascention stuff with Henchmen, I still totally suck at PvP. You might think some things are awesome in PvE simply because those enemies don't carry a counter.

Edit: late night pondering.

We've all played Chess right? You know Knights. They're that wierd piece that most people don't like to use because they're difficult to use well, despite the fact that they have a whole slew of advantages over other pieces. Rangers are kinda like Knights, nobody likes them because they're not straightforward. They can give you a big advantage if you use them correctly, especially against an opponent who's unprepared.

However, consider the Queen. Everyone likes the Queen. Queens are good right out of the box, even an inexperienced player can do some damage with that piece, and an expert can use it to decimate the opponent (I'm very familar with that recieving end).

Now, you may or may not be able to take down the Queen using your Knight, but is anyone going to try and say that Knights are as good as Queens? The Knight offers some unique tactical advantages, but I sincerely doubt that anyone would take one over a Queen.

The same applies here. The quirkiness of Rangers makes them an advantage in certain situations, but most of the time you're still better off with something stronger. I'll grant you, I've only been to HoH twice, and rarely fare well in the Tombs, but I am smart enough to notice that most of the winning teams are the ones that focus on one target, drop it like a bad habit, and move on to a new target. What place do Rangers have on those teams?

Tellani Artini · Jun 12, 2005, 12:10 PM // 12:10

A bow nuke is any bow "power attack" that gives a temporary increase in sustained damage. Under zephyr they recharge twice as fast, making the surge in sustained DPS occur twice as often (as energy allows). I've never achieved elementalist-like spike damage with my bow; spike damage isn't where the ranger excels. They cripple, debilitate, and take their time finishing off the enemy bit by bit.

Rituals affect both sides equally, but that doesn't mean they don't work to the casting side's advantage. If your team equips zero enchantments and hexes, and piles on 5-energy skills (especially word of healing) and energy drainers/knockers, aren't you more prepared for the rituals than any given foe? Rangers are easily the class that thrives most under these rituals, with warriors as a close second.

A ranger can have any place on a single-target team. How about mass poisoning and bleeding to force healers to keep everyone alive at once, taking heals away from the called target? Energy draining and interrupting the off monk(s)? Pin down or crippling shot on the primary target? Melandru's arrows and/or melandru's assault to punish enchantment-heavy targets?

raven214 · Jun 20, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by chojin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ren Falconhand
AS to the above mention Beast Mastery the DEVs should combine the skills charm animal and confort to one skill or at least get rid of the both and use an animal totem instead. Which you could put in your inventory. Keep the pet attacks skill to be fair but enough is enough. The way is is now you need 4 slots to have a good pet. that is way too much.

I have to agree with the charm and comfort skills. For what I am trying to do with my build, I find having both Charm Animal and Comfort Pet to be skill slot hogs (considering I also carry a Rez Signet). I don't feel that my current Beast Mastery skills are worth exploring (at this point). So I just use my pet as fodder (I don't carry Comfort). Once he dies, his corpse stays in place until I zone to another area. It just isn't worth losing a preparation or interrupt in order to revive the pet.

The idea of combining Charm and Comfort is a good one, IMO.

-chojin

I strongly agree with this and hope the devs are at least considering it. Right now my ranger has a few bow attacks, a prep and stance, and charm and comfort animal... with no room for a res/cap sig or one or two useful skills from my secondary. Since there are only 8 slots, it seems unreasonable IMO to have to use 2 slots -- 1 just to bring along your pet, and a 2nd to heal/res them. They should be combined.

theclam · Jun 20, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Right now my ranger uses:
Poison Arrow(E)
Healing Spring or Troll Unguent

and the rest are secondary spells(air elementalist) and Res/Cap signet.
I used to use ignite arrow and dual shot as a R/Me, but then I switched to Elementalist, and the lightning spells were much better than ranger skills. I have Chain Lightning and Whirlwind instead of ignite and dual shot, as chain does so much better in the damage area and Whirlwind has knockdown.

I'm pretty sure that I am supposed to use traps, pulling, and interrupting as a ranger, but I would rather deal large amounts of dame with lightning spells and use poison.

I would really love to get Barrage as I have conjure lightning, and it seems like those two could work really well together.

I also think that using two spots just to keep a pet alive is wasteful, if I want pets I will just change to a necro and use some of the summons for only one spot instead of two.

IxChel · Jun 20, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by chojin

The idea of combining Charm and Comfort is a good one, IMO.

It would make a good elite.