Curse

IxChel · Jun 20, 2005, 05:15 PM // 17:15

I'd like to request that rods/staves for Ranger's Wilderness and Beastmastery be added to the system. Here is my logic.

1. Ranger is the only class where 'Marksmanship' is the sole attribute that gives you a max-damage weapon. Elementalists have their choice of element, Mesmers have domination or illusion, Healers have smiting or divine favor, Warriors have their weapon choice, and Necromancers have curses, blood or death magic. The Ranger is the only class with "just" a single attribute with a max-damage weapon.

2. It is not appropriate for an "expertise bow". Expertise is not about using a bow, it's about being praticed, a professional -- dedicated to one's cause. The only other class /w a weapon associated with a primary attribute is the monk (divine favor), and this is only done because protection and healing don't make any sence to be a weapon attribute.

3. Wilderness and Beastmastery, are, for the most part, just like any other caster's skill line (think blood or curses for a necromancer). Both of these two lines _deserve_ a weapon/foci because they are both semi-offensive (traps for wilderness, and pet attacks for beastmastery).

4. Since a ranger is mid-way between a caster and a warrior, it makes sense for them to have the option of having a rod/staff. Some rangers might want to stick with the 'bow' and be more warrior like. Other rangers might want instead to be more like a druid, harnessing nature.

In conclusion, I'd like to see wilderness and beast mastery staff/rod added to the game to fill this problem with Ranger's lack of weapon choice.

theclam · Jun 20, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Why would beast mastery give you a rod/stave, I think it would give you a whip instead

why would you use a rod/stave? most of the ranger skills are about bows, why would you needlessly cripple yourself?
If you really want you can get a rod/stave from pre-searing, those don't have any requirements so you can use those with your ranger

Epinephrine · Jun 20, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

I suggested BM and WS off hand items a short while ago; they would thus be paired with a wand or sword; staves for these attributes would also be nice.

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Why would you want an off-hand weapon with a ranger?

THEY ARE A LONG-RANGED BOW-WIELDING CLASS.

If you want an off-hand item, be any class but a ranger.

EDIT:

I do agree that rangers need more weapons, but don't give them wands.

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Beast Mastery isn't about having a weapon and doing damage yourself, so why would you have a weapon for that attribute?

Having a staff for Wilderness would make you unable to use skills from one entire line and half from another, who would cripple themselves that way?

IxChel · Jun 20, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

Why would beast mastery give you a rod/stave, I think it would give you a whip instead

What a great suggestion. Beastmastery can be coupled with a melee weapon like a sword/axe, nice idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

why would you use a rod/stave? most of the ranger skills are about bows, why would you needlessly cripple yourself?

Why can't you use a sword skill when wielding an axe? This is why an expertise bow is a non-starter; it would make the ranger the only class with an attack type that works with two skill lines. Clearly if the Developers wanted to make an Expertise bow, they would have done it by now; it isn't hard. But they have reasons of game ballance. Giving the ranger an attack-type that works with two skill lines would be un-ballanced.

I suggest making wilderness a 'staff', since that's kinda what I imagine a druid carrying. It would work like any other caster's staff and have max damage accordingly. Yes, you wouldn't be able to use your bow skills with it -- however, it would make a Ra/X viable with Expertise /Wilderness /Some-Secondary-Line, rather than always having to have Expertise and Marksmanship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

THEY ARE A LONG-RANGED BOW-WIELDING CLASS.

If I want to wield a bow, I'll be a marksmanship ranger. Much like if I want to wield a sword, I'll be a swordsman, not an axe mastery warrior. My ranger is a wilderness survival ranger, and I'd just like a decent weapon. I'm not requesting that your ranger give up their precious bow. It is just that I don't feel like being a marksmanship man; and I think that the 'expertise bow' idea is dead-in-the-water and has been dead-in-the-water since January or earlier. Hence, I'm trying to suggest reasonable alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

Beast Mastery isn't about having a weapon and doing damage yourself, so why would you have a weapon for that attribute?

And curses or domination magic isn't about doing damage yourself, it's about having your opponent shoot themselves in the foot. Yet, both of those lines have a direct attack wand. Did you have a point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

Having a staff for Wilderness would make you unable to use skills from two entire lines, who would cripple themselves that way?

Expertise has plenty of skills that arn't related to a bow; and what happens if I don't actually want _any_ attribute points in marksmanship? What if I want to be a beast-master trapper? Why are you denying me a max-damage weapon or a max-energy foci/staff? I'm only suggesting that someone who makes traps should be able to have something as powerful that any caster class (with more powerful spells) has. It's quite simple. Also, if you don't want the wilderness staff -- don't take it -- stick with your bow and pump-up your marksmanship.

Zubey · Jun 20, 2005, 06:29 PM // 18:29

I agree with the original post. I'd like to see Staves in Wilderness Survival.

Currently, Ranger's are forced into Marksmanship to have any weapon output. They need some of the flexibility that other classes have.

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

If you want to survive in the wild (wilderness survival) which would you rather prefer:

A. going up straight to an enemy and hitting him from up close, and risking getting hit

or

B. staying far away and shooting the enemy full with arrows, with little chance of retaliation.

Ok so they should make some non-marksmanship bows, I can agree with that, but rangers are all about being away from the enemy, basically the only touch skill is throw dirt, which people can live without, so why would you go up close?

Epinephrine · Jun 20, 2005, 07:16 PM // 19:16

As has already been brought up:

Each line for warriors has an item - three types of weapon (hammer, axe, sword) and two types of shield (strength and tactics)

Each line of Elementalist has both weapon and focus, excepting energy storage (which only has a small number of skills) - fire, earth, air and water all have foci and wands, as well as staves.

Each line of Monk has an item associated; Divine favour and smiting each have staves, healing and protection have foci, smiting and I think DF have wands.

Each line of Mesmer has an item, excepting fast casting (which has only one skill); Domination and illusion have wands and staves, inspiration has a focus; I believe both domination and illusion also have foci.

Each line of Necromancer except Soul Reaping(which has no skills) has a staff and a wand, as well as a focus - there are staves for all three lines, wands for at least two of them and foci for all three.

Rangers have one line with a weapon, and none with a focus. A ranger focus in BM and WS as well as a staff in these would put them on equal footing in choice of skill line as the other professions. I think that the staves are a good idea, but I'd also like to see the foci decribed here (http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...88&postcount=1) as they would be a nice complement to a sword/axe as well as a wand, for those caster/rangers who want added protection with it or those warrior-type rangers who wish a bit more energy than a shield gives.

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 07:20 PM // 19:20

the easiest solution would be to have bows for wilderness and beastmastery, not getting foci or staves/wands or swords.

Epinephrine · Jun 20, 2005, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Except that a Warrior/Ranger taking a pet won't benefit from a bow, ever - he would use an off hand item like a focus perhaps, but a bow doesn't fit the W/R or R/W setup. Neither will the wand wielding mage with one, and staves carry energy bonuses, which are especially important as a caster class with a ranger secondary. EVERY class but the ranger has a focus/shield. Every class but the Ranger has several lines with weapons, and a choice of one handed or two handed (wand/staff or sword,axe/hammer). Give them these options.

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 07:23 PM // 19:23

benifit from what?

You know, if you really want a ranger with a staff, get a secondary profession and use a staff from it.

Rhombus · Jun 20, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

i only read the first 2 post but... ooooh.... whipping the charr to death

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 07:29 PM // 19:29

The whip would be the perfect distracting weapon.

Epinephrine · Jun 20, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

benifit from what?

You know, if you really want a ranger with a staff, get a secondary profession and use a staff from it.

you haven't given a single reason not to expand the weaponry except that you don't like it. It fits the game style, it doesn't invoke new mechanics, it balances the class with other classes. If you want to complain, go ahead, but without a reasonable objection I don't really care. A Ranger /Warrior using traps, a pet and tactics for shouts needs a weapon too, and a staff works fine as most hiker/wilderness types would attest to. Rangers with staves make sense.

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Why do you want to give rangers melee/rods/staves?

Why not just keep rangers with bows?

Lasher Dragon · Jun 20, 2005, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Each line of Necromancer except Soul Reaping(which has no skills) has a staff and a wand, as well as a focus - there are staves for all three lines, wands for at least two of them and foci for all three.

I hate to disagree with ya there, but:

BTW I agree that the Ranger gets hosed on weapon choice... I think there should be bows w/expertise requirements myself.

arnansnow · Jun 20, 2005, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

I hate to disagree with ya there, but:

BTW I agree that the Ranger gets hosed on weapon choice... I think there should be bows w/expertise requirements myself.

that would be the most useless item in the game if not for the +12 energy, although the energy requires soul reaping as well, which dampens it some more.

Epinephrine · Jun 20, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

I hate to disagree with ya there, but:

BTW I agree that the Ranger gets hosed on weapon choice... I think there should be bows w/expertise requirements myself.

Ok, I was working from what I've seen :P That's one impressively useless staff

Do they have one for energy storage and fast casting as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnansnow

Why do you want to give rangers melee/rods/staves?

Why not just keep rangers with bows?

I would like to see foci, because I have played a Ranger/Warrior before, with an axe, and if I didn't want a shield I was screwed for an off hand item.

One main reason for not making it a bow is the number of bow skills that could then be used too easily. Ignite arrows for example, requires investment in at least two attributes to be very useful - putting a bow based on WS would reduce it to one attribute, profoundly changing the balance. Likewise, the skill distracting shot is a great skill, and though it is in expertise it is effective at 0 investment - but you need marksmanship to use a decent bow. If you make a WS or BM bow it changes this as well, possibly making it too easy to use these skills.

Staves aren't linked to any of the ranger abilities, so would give a weapon that doesn't get around the most likely intentional need for marksmanship to use a high damage bow. It seems like the devs wanted real bow use to be a ranger's ability, and adding WS and BM bows would get around that - staves, wands and foci don't disrupt the careful placement of arrow enhancing preparations in a skill line that doesn't allow high damage bow use.

Lasher Dragon · Jun 20, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Ok, I was working from what I've seen :P That's one impressively useless staff

Do they have one for energy storage and fast casting as well?

LOL Not sure... I have been hanging on to it though, I imagine someday it will be a collectors item LMAO