Curse

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 06, 2005, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Many have written regarding negative behaviors so many players choose to indulge in. The real question becomes,
"why do they continue to do such practices?"
And the answer is: because thay can largely operate with impunity; knowing there is little or nothing that can be done to them within the game, and even if ANet is alerted, the more clever nasties will be long gone before they arrive.

Example:
Zoning into a locale in the South Shiverpeaks yesterday, I was treated to a verbal barrage by a fellow who felt it was important that everyone there know he enjoys getting high on drugs, raping "chicks" and "popping caps in the biatches". A more perfect example of someone needing a sword through his gullet I could not provide.
Was he interfering with my transaction to sell loot to the merchant? No.
Was he highly annoying and violating EULA agreements? yes.
Did it warrant a screenshot and followup to ANet. Not really.
How many of you have come across simialr situations?

Aye, ANet has been very proactive in regards to botting, scamming, duping, and other exploits; but this doesn't relieve the stress or anger that so many have felt when some toad begins screaming profanity, spamming garbage, or otherwise making a general ass of himself in the current zone.
A solution is needed.

A proposed solution: make the city/mission zones PvP.
Horrors! You say. I won't be able to run to the bank without some cretin trying to plunge a dagger into my back!
Not true.
Consider other games where PvP is allowed in most places; Lineage 2 and Shadowbane come to mind. The population quickly falls into a self-policing mode where normal courtesy and respect for each other is quickly established.
Here are several of the more common concerns, and what occurred in these games as a result of them:

1.) Player Killers sit in the newbie zones and simply grief players. No doubt, we have quite a few of these rejects on the server now. Players indulging in this behavior soon find themselves on the "hit list" for other players who will not tolerate this buffonery.
From personal habit I can tell you that anytime I saw someone 5+ levels above the other players in the zone killing them, I made this fellow my personal project until he understood the error of his ways.

2.) I don't want to have to worry about being killed while in any town/mission zone. And no doubt, you won't have to. First of all, there is no permanent xp loss in GW, so any "inconvenience" would only be temporary. Secondly, you don't drop any gear or coin when defeated, so the incentive to simply have packs of players roaming zones looking for "marks" is zero. And think, if somebody just randomly comes up and snuffs you with the obligatory, "I PWNED U NOOB"
a.) Your friends or guild is going to make this persons life a living hell for the rest of the time he's logged on.
b.) Passersby will also take umbrage at such scum and quickly dispatch them.

What quickly transpires is that the population begins to "police" itself, and a overall code of conduct is established.

3.) I demand the right to spam, yell obscenity, or make sexual statements in public so everyone can see how ubercool I am. And you still can brother! All this proposed system would do is allow the rest of us to either:
a.) Politely tell you to shut up or move along - and have a way to "enforce" our request.
b.) Allow you to correct your antisocial behaviors, by inflicting temporary death (and possible embarrassment) to your character.

4.) Players would abuse it! I can hear the stories now; "there I was, spamming the zone with my godly golden wares, when this total jerkwad just nukes me into the dirt! that is so, like, totally unfair or something!"
It's a fact of life folks, Babies cry - and most come here to do it. That they were having a temper tantrum in the first place when spanked is always irrelvant to them - and will continue to be so.

I believe PvP within city and mission zones would clear up the current negative behaviors so prevalent practically overnight.

What say you?

Talesin

Dumachum · Jul 06, 2005, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Spoken like a true PK.

Whether you like it or not griefers, most likely you included, WILL abuse it to the maximum of their ability. This is the same argument PK's have been giving for "free pvp" on every online game that has ever come out. It is nothing new.

Epinephrine · Jul 06, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Been discussed. A solution exists. Report them.

Every one of the objections makes sense. If someone is harrassing people just report him. Being banned solves the problem for everyone, being able to kill him in game wouldn't even be an inconvenience. There would be griefers, there would be random attacks, guilds would form expressly to attack others, and you'd not be able to stop them.

Play a game that encourages ganking if you really want it, it'll never happen in GW.

Prince Daniel · Jul 06, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

See my duelling post, i think a much better solution (if i do say so myself)

IndyCC · Jul 06, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Cant say i support this one. i played AO for three years. There were PvP regions of the map, but if it were in cities, argh, that would get rediculous.

BicLighter · Jul 06, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

It were these things that I loved about Shadowbane. Guild Wars has great PVP, arguably the best of any game out right now, but these are the things that myself and I'm sure a lot of others miss greatly. Good post, poster!

Maybe if even the high level cities allowed for some PVP in an expansion or something. Trutfully, I want the feeling of old UO, old school AC darktide or Shadowbane (as buggy as it was) back. I haven't felt that adrenaline in an online rpg in awhile.

- Bic Lighter

stumpy · Jul 06, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

In city ... I like ... In mission ... I disagree ...

now you get spikes in pugs ... and not all pugs are all that bad ... people holding missions for money saying pay us 5 plat now or the 4 of us will kill you off ... I think in the citys it would be good .... because that is mostly where the problem lies.

proper reporting is in place ... just people are to lazy to take screen shot, email with atttachment of proof. God ... I'm too lazy to sell my wares on the vent sell forum because I dont want to chop my pictures and make it one lol.

In the end we can only blame ourselves for letting this happen already. We can stop it ... we just dont. I think it would be funny though. I would enter lions arch and see 32 meteors, 17 chain lightnings, and 56 heal areas lol.

Numa Pompilius · Jul 06, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I sympathise with the sentiment, truly I do, but I do not want nonconsensual PvP in cities, it wouldn't help with the problem at hand. We do not need lvl 20 ganking-parties roaming Ascalon to "pwn nubbs", but that is exactly what we'd get.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 06, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dumachum

Spoken like a true PK.

Whether you like it or not griefers, most likely you included, WILL abuse it to the maximum of their ability. This is the same argument PK's have been giving for "free pvp" on every online game that has ever come out. It is nothing new.

Actually I'm pretty much what most would term a "care-bear" - I PvE almost exclusively. But I do thank you for the moniker!

Azzith · Jul 06, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

I was treated to a verbal barrage by a fellow who felt it was important that everyone there know he enjoys getting high on drugs, raping "chicks" and "popping caps in the biatches".
Did it warrant a screenshot and followup to ANet. Not really.

Talesin

Uhm, why you think that kind of behaviour does not deserve a ban, i dont know. Should definately have screened it.

Jadrius Lifebane · Jul 06, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57

(sarcasm)Yeah... UO's "self policing" worked real good, back in the day.(/sarcasm)

It then becomes a matter of joining the big bad "ultimate" guild (or top five guilds), or just dying repeatedly, for no reason at all.

Also, BicLighter, what some people get a rush of adrenaline for, many of us feel only contempt and frustration about. I did not get "excited" when 5 people came out of the woodwork and put me down like a dog. I only got frustrated and annoyed by it, until I finally quit trying to play, since clearly playing the game was impossible.

ManadartheHealer · Jul 06, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Rather than making all city districts PvP, just make a certain "PvP district" you can enter. Then, if someone becomes a moron, you can stab them to death

Jadrius Lifebane · Jul 06, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Manadar: Not a bad suggestion. However, you'd also want to make sure that you did not get exp for killing in a PvP district.

Otherwise: Level 20 in Ascalon City PvP district takes off his armor and tells people in his guild to take their new characters and come kill him over and over again to gain EXP and gain levels very rapidly.

It'd be very exploitable, in that regard.

So, the only safe way to do it, would be to make the 'in-city' PvP operate in a district, and offer no benefit.

However, this would not solve Talesin's problem, since he was dealing with verbal grief. The verbal griefer probably would not be willing to go into the pvp district, nor could Talesin force him to.

So, there would be nothing gained at all from this.

A duel system could be rather cool, though, just for the sake of practicing. Especially if parties of equal size could duel.

ManadartheHealer · Jul 06, 2005, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadrius Lifebane

However, you'd also want to make sure that you did not get exp for killing in a PvP district...So, the only safe way to do it, would be to make the 'in-city' PvP operate in a district, and offer no benefit.

Of course

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jadrius Lifebane

However, this would not solve Talesin's problem, since he was dealing with verbal grief. The verbal griefer probably would not be willing to go into the pvp district, nor could Talesin force him to.

It would solve his problem, as he could simply go to PvP districts rather than hanging out in non-PvP ones. Then, he could /ignore the person if they are whispering, or kill them if they come to the PvP district

Jadrius Lifebane · Jul 06, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Manadar. Alternatively, he could just change districts when there is a problem player shouting about something stupid.

Kishin · Jul 06, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Not true.
Consider other games where PvP is allowed in most places; Lineage 2 and Shadowbane come to mind. The population quickly falls into a self-policing mode where normal courtesy and respect for each other is quickly established.

How much Lineage 2 did you play, exactly? The 'Chaotic' system was horrible. Even if you were white, you could still lose items, and if you ganked a red, you eventually would get killed yourself in becoming PvP active, perpetuating the cycle.

MSecorsky · Jul 06, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

So some bunghole decides to set a barb trap around the merchant then drop a meteor storm or something on the crowd gathered...

Hmm... bad idea imo.

stumpy · Jul 06, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

not a bad idea ... but I dont think in towns now ... it would be a nice pvp idea ... but not recreate what we got ... say an expansion? that would be a good reason for pvp players to buy it. Hell if there was a royal rumble free for all in a town ... surely I would buy it and gointo it ... lol ... imagine all the traps meteors maelstroms chaos storms etc going off constantly ... sheez it would be a natural war all day long lol ...

arnansnow · Jul 06, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumpy

not a bad idea ... but I dont think in towns now ... it would be a nice pvp idea ... but not recreate what we got ... say an expansion? that would be a good reason for pvp players to buy it. Hell if there was a royal rumble free for all in a town ... surely I would buy it and gointo it ... lol ... imagine all the traps meteors maelstroms chaos storms etc going off constantly ... sheez it would be a natural war all day long lol ...

If there was a free-for-all in a town, I would just spam AoE spells and evasion skills and run around.

Maybe they could have one town that is a total free-for-all all the time, and leave all the other towns alone. Although this wouldn't solve the op's problem.

EternalTempest · Jul 06, 2005, 08:44 PM // 20:44

What about all those "towns" in the wilds that were abandoned, make them warp to zones but open season combat? But I would not want to see them in the main towns unless there was a special pvp version of them.