Curse

Spike · Jul 09, 2005, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

If and when they do move the priest to the pvp areas, the game will go down hill from here. With the majority of player playing pvp, the game will lose flavor quick.

What makes you think the majority of people PVP?. I would doubt that very much my self. Simpley based on the fact of the large numbers of players I see just in the english pve areas.

CaptainGuru · Jul 10, 2005, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike

What makes you think the majority of people PVP?. I would doubt that very much my self. Simpley based on the fact of the large numbers of players I see just in the english pve areas.

Well for one...

50% of the people are pvpers and the other 50% are pve. Out of the 50% of those who pve, half of them are the opimistic player (who will pve until he/she reaches end game) or the promising player. (who is just pve to get skills or items for a class)

So only 25% of the players in pve are really serious about. (Their reason for pveing doesn't even matter.)

If the priests are installed in PvP, the promising players and optimistic players will stop pveing altogether and only small population of players will play pve.

Two...

The pve has been noted by EVERYONE repeated to be the lackluster of this game because there is no content or variety. There is no replay value to it. Only people who suck at PvP or don't PvP at all play PvE. Those who suck at PvP, are doing what I noted last week, which was exploit the high end armor in low level arenas, beating up lowbies and doing no damage.

As for those who pve to pve, I know for a fact, they'll get bored long before the expansion comes out. You can only play the game 3 times before it get repetitive.

I mean do you think this game would have made with pve alone? If you think that, you are complete moron. There are a lot of MMORPGs with the same content as this game, but with more content. Hell, a lot of Diablo veterans will tell you that this game plays a lot like it. If GW came only with PvE, it really would be just another Diablo.

Loviatar · Jul 10, 2005, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

If GW came only with PvE, it really would be just another Diablo.

and of course diablo is just another so so game that will be gone shortly after release

sai987 · Jul 10, 2005, 12:43 AM // 00:43

I think it was an extremely smart move to have priests in areas only accessible through pve. This way someone will have to go all the way to Droknar's Forge or Amnoon Oasis to unlock the things they want. Doing so, the update retains the original intention of the creators, that everyone can pvp from the start but has to go through pve to get more skills, runes etc.

CaptainGuru · Jul 10, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by sai987

I think it was an extremely smart move to have priests in areas only accessible through pve. This way someone will have to go all the way to Droknar's Forge or Amnoon Oasis to unlock the things they want. Doing so, the update retains the original intention of the creators, that everyone can pvp from the start but has to go through pve to get more skills, runes etc.

Have you tried getting anything from priests? You haven't seeing as your answer to ANet's move is pretty dumbass. All have priest don't have the moves you need. They are just like the skill merchant, but require a longer time to get access to all skills. I can get all the [insert class] skills faster by doing quest than fighting in pvp for a month. Within a month, I'll all the skills from 6 classes and then some where as in pvp I'll have half the moves of only one class. I can get 6 moves in 10 minutes where as it would take 3 days to get one move.

How was that smart move? Because it still draws people in the boring pve aspect? You know there is a reason why people populate the pvp areas more than they do the pve area. Not everybody is squrriel player like you or Spike.

Loviatar · Jul 10, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

Not everybody is squrriel player like you or Spike.

simply an observation

i am one of those .....(fill in derogatory term)..... people the pvp refer to

have you noticed that the personal slurs are mostly from the PVP side towards the PVE side and not the reverse?

simply an observation

maybe the extra descriptive terms for a person could be toned down a bit?

CaptainGuru · Jul 10, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

simply an observation

i am one of those .....(fill in derogatory term)..... people the pvp refer to

have you noticed that the personal slurs are mostly from the PVP side towards the PVE side and not the reverse?

simply an observation

maybe the extra descriptive terms for a person could be toned down a bit?

I'm a promising player.

Loviatar · Jul 10, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

I'm a promising player.

forgive me as i cannot refuse this one

*PROMISE ME ANYTHING BUT GIVE ME CASH*

Kishin · Jul 10, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

have you noticed that the personal slurs are mostly from the PVP side towards the PVE side and not the reverse?

simply an observation

maybe the extra descriptive terms for a person could be toned down a bit?

An incorrect observation. You yourself have mocked PvP players in other threads, Loviatar, so don't get high and mighty and throw stereotypes around.

Every time a PvP player posts a long explanation/opinion on issues with unlocking, no less than a half dozen flames appear in that thread full of invectives and derogatory remarks, and a good number of that is from PvE only players. In fact, I would dare say on this forum, I've seen about 60/40 to 70/30 in favor of the PvErs flaming the PvPers, and not the reverse.

CaptainGuru · Jul 10, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

forgive me as i cannot refuse this one

*PROMISE ME ANYTHING BUT GIVE ME CASH*

*Beats Loviatar with a flip-floop*

Loviatar · Jul 10, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

[QUOTE=Kishin]An incorrect observation. You yourself have mocked PvP players in other threads, Loviatar, so don't get high and mighty and throw stereotypes around.
QUOTE]

incorrect

i have made many equal jabs in general to both sides at the same time

dingaholics for the level monsters
rabid hard core pvp for the pvper

i have not made a comment stating an individual is a (fill in blank)

Ancalagon06 · Jul 10, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eder

I find it hard to believe that not including the priests in the PvP arenas was an oversight... simply because they remembered to add the priests to PvE areas, where the priests are useless.

It seems pretty clear to me that they intended it to work that way... possibly to prevent people from unlocking skills which take a lot of time to get to in PvE after having played the game in PvP for a mere couple hours or so.

And I think that's a good idea - I'd hate to see Pvp John Doe unlock Hundred Blades within 3 hours of installing the game just because he got lucky and ran into 312 clueless teams in the LA arena (which isn't too hard to picture).

This is exactly what I was thinking when I heard where the unlockers were going to be located. And I thought it was a brilliant move on their part, as it keeps PvP balanced. Now, they should have still included some Priests in the PvP areas, just not let them unlock the higher level stuff, like elite skills and superior runes.

EDIT: and the flaming is 50-50, it just so happens that the PvP flaming comes from maybe 10-15 people, while all the PvE flaming comes from EVERYONE ELSE

ubrikkean · Jul 10, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

i think the reason for the switch is that there is some kind of error if youre using a pvp character when you unlock certain things, like skills maybe for example, but the problem wouldnt happen for pve characters because it doesnt unlock anything for them. plus i still dont get why people are so worked up. i am completely certain that the bulk of players have 1, maybe 2 pve characters and a couple pvp. its not like everyone stopped playing pve and started to play pvp only once they added faction... its more efficient to get some things (mainly skills) through pve. if someone only played pvp, its still not hard to make a pve character and go post searing really quick, and there you have it, a priest of balthazar right there in ascalon city. woop de doo.

Antonio Cappello · Jul 10, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Ok, I'm pretty much only a PvE player, but I think it's horrible how one person's suggestion could degrade into a flame war between PvPers and PvEers. PvPers, Guild Wars is NOT a PvP focused game. PvE players, Guild Wars is NOT a PvE focused game. Maybe some of you don't like PvE or PvP but that doesn't mean that either has no value. It's been said in Fansite Fridays that as far as PvE and PvP go, the focus is 50/50.

As far as my opinion goes, moving priests into PvP arenas without any other change would be a mistake. It would make PvPers able to only PvP (which I have no problem with) but PvEers would still be dependant on the PvP crowd to gain access to The Underworld and The Fissure of Woe. Maybe ArenaNet is going to fix it, but it won't happen right away. As most of you learned in physics class, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. ArenaNet doesn't want to lose players from either crowd, so they have to do a difficult balancing job. Cool down and let ArenaNet fix it. They are more than capable.

CaptainGuru · Jul 10, 2005, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio Cappello

Ok, I'm pretty much only a PvE player, but I think it's horrible how one person's suggestion could degrade into a flame war between PvPers and PvEers. PvPers, Guild Wars is NOT a PvP focused game. PvE players, Guild Wars is NOT a PvE focused game.

We are going to have international tournament every season. You find pvp arean in RPG mode. All of the mini-game reside in PvP. YET, someone how you how come to believe that this isn't not PvP based game. How stupid are you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio Cappello

Maybe some of you don't like PvE or PvP but that doesn't mean that either has no value. It's been said in Fansite Fridays that as far as PvE and PvP go, the focus is 50/50.

The focus maybe 50/50, but the results are 25/75.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio Cappello

As far as my opinion goes, moving priests into PvP arenas without any other change would be a mistake.

The fact that the priests are in the game is mistake. In a sense, they should have never been made because now the pvpers are now going to want to put them in pvp arena and they won't stop until ANet does it. And trust me, they will fold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antonio Cappello

It would make PvPers able to only PvP (which I have no problem with) but PvEers would still be dependant on the PvP crowd to gain access to The Underworld and The Fissure of Woe. Maybe ArenaNet is going to fix it, but it won't happen right away. As most of you learned in physics class, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. ArenaNet doesn't want to lose players from either crowd, so they have to do a difficult balancing job. Cool down and let ArenaNet fix it. They are more than capable.

Everything they've tried to fix so far became an even worser situation. Thanks to the priests, the lack of item drops and rune/rare item traders, this game went from suffering a inflatation to a depression because every item is worseless.

The move to put the priest into the game cause the community to SPLIT into two groups. This is the first game I've experience that split "violently" into two communities. Originally, it was one, but now we have PvErs and Pvpers due to uproar on both sides on how unfair that 1) We have to play PvE to get the moves and 2) How easy it is to get all the moves without truly pve-ing.

Hasn't anyone other than myself notice this? I'm not saying ANet is doing a piss poor job, but everything they've done in fan favor is just blow up in their faces. Everything they backfires on them and the fans. From day one they've been making these mistake. The warriors and equipment were the first mistake. ANet said equipment didn't matter when deciding a fight. They did this without taking in regards as how it would affect the warrior.

Now, the warrior known to be the most horrible dps character in the entire game, next to the ranger. Any hardcore rpger will tell you that a warrior's equipment will make or break them.

arredondo · Jul 10, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Anyone defending the current system as being equally fair to both play modes is delusional. The only reason Arena.net makes revisions to PvP almost every week is because of the horrible imbalance from the very first day. If it is so perfect, why the continual changes? The primary problem remains:

Fans of both modes can play both, but while fans of pure-PvE can play 100s of hours with only one forced PvP match, PvP fans have to spend 100s of hours doing PvE play mechanics they may not want to play. If you're truly a person supporting "fairness" between all types of players, then let PvP players play PvP all they want without forced PvE mechanics.... just like PvE players aren't forced to endure 100 PvP matches everytime they want to enter new areas or get new quests.

Crying about a drop in PvE activity, which is all instanced BTW, as a reason to reject chage is just being selfish. Don't force people to do PvE if that's something that they may not want to do when you are not being forced to PvP. It's a clear double standard.

Spike · Jul 10, 2005, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Right so the spilt amoung player is 50/50 I don't think so somehow. Last night in TOA there where 6 english districts 6 french 8 greman 2 spanish and an itallian. If the max pop of a disterict is say 200. That means there where about 4000 people just in TOA. I'm guessing there had to be at least twice as many people in the rest of the PVE areas. Thats 12,000 people, Are you REALLY trying to tell me there where 12,000 people pvping last night AT THE SAME TIME. Casue i would hardly belive there where 1200 let alone ten times that amount.

The only delusional persons around here are you arredondo and captain guru. You can get to droknars forge in matter of hours. So saying is takes 00s' is just a flat out LIE. BTW PVE people DO have to either PVP or rely on PVP results to access PVE areas. Those being the Fissure of woe and the Underworld.

All I'm asking is IF pvp people can get ANY/ALL skills with OUT haveing to PVE. That PVE people can access The FOW and UW WITHOUT haveing to pvp or relying on others doing so. Whats unfair about that ?

King of Fools · Jul 10, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

um, there is a priest of balthazar at tombs last time i checked. up on hillside.

arredondo · Jul 10, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I was referring to the main PvE adventure above. How many hours must a PvE player commit to PvP in order to access FoW/W? For 99% of them, none. They are waiting for someone else to do it. Although FoW and UW are elaborate "side" missions instead of being part of the main game, I do feel that yes, disconnect the reliance on PvP favor. With that said, FoW and UW make up a tiny part of the overall PvE adventure which is free of PvP mechanics except for one minor quest.

I stand by my 100s of hours accusation that players are forced PvE play mechnics on PvP, while PvE is relatively free of forced PvP play mechanics. As a new player to GW without experienced buddies, you'll have no idea what "rushing" is about most likely. And even if you do happen to get rushed through, where are you going to get the all skills you need to plan (which is ALL of them)? 100s of hours of unlocking (a PvE play mechanic) or 100+ hours of finishing the PvE adventure (again, first timer).

And before you even try it, YES, you need all your gear and skill sets to plan your evolving PvP builds. I have no less than six strong builds that I pull out for certain situations, and those builds were refined after tons of hours practicing and understanding a lot of my skills. The one sentence descrips and even the info on the forums isn't nearly the same when you can get so much more by trying to use it yourself.

If you want to have a pure PvP experience with access to different primaries, again you are forced to another few 100s of hours of PvE unlocking play mechanics, or having to go fully through the adventure at least two more times. Does this happen anywhere close to this amount of effort for PvE'ers to have a relatively PvP-free adventure experience? Again, do you have to battle 100s of hours of PvP matches just to be able to get to Yak's Bend or to gain access to Althea's Ashes quest?

PvE'ers are in no way bogged down in 100s of hours of forced PvP gaming. The opposite is true for PvP'ers. You may like this great imbalance that favors PvE's freedom over PvP's ball 'n chain play mechanics. That's an opinion that you're free to have. What you cannot do is claim in any way that the two sides are equal in what you are and are not forced to participate in.

Neither mode is better than the other - I like them each for what they individually offer. It's unfortunate however that one side requires so much from the other play mode while the other does not, and they both should be able to stand completely on their own.

Antonio Cappello · Jul 10, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainGuru

We are going to have international tournament every season. You find pvp arean in RPG mode. All of the mini-game reside in PvP. YET, someone how you how come to believe that this isn't not PvP based game. How stupid are you?

I think you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make. The PvE vs PvP argument shouldn't be happening because ArenaNet "claims" that the game is supposed to be equally based on PvP and PvE. If you only play PvP then I suppose the game would primarily about PvP to you, but in general the game is supposed to be balanced between the two. The RPG part isn't an "add-on" and neither is the PvP part. Also, you really don't need to answer me with an insult.

Aside from that, I agree with your points. ArenaNet has made things worse for both PvE and PvP, and the priests were probably a bad idea. I think it's horrible that there are two groups of players that absolutely hate each other. There is a rift between PvP and PvE (and ironically it was caused when ArenaNet tried to bring the two together). I think the favor and the priests are another effort to get PvE players to PvP and PvP players to PvE. This may work for "neutral" players, but for hardcore PvE and PvP players this seems to be a failure.

However, I see things as getting better. ArenaNet has made some mistakes, but they are reading the forums. At least they are making an effort. They could just as well have not included the priests and told PvP players to live with it. But instead they are trying to fix the problem.