Curse

crazy diamond · Jul 10, 2005, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drakron

I dont like "cut the head to cure the headache" solutions and a redesign of how armor works because a testing shortcut is abused is a extreme way to fix the issue of low level character with the best armor avaible in the game.

The problem is the maps giving access to that area, not the armor that is there.

Outright cutting off all access sounds more like the "cut the head to cure the headache" solution to me.

The problem isn't just the armor, and it isn't just the access through Lornar's, it's the combination of both that causes problems.

Quote:

Another thing, what kind of restrictions can you put in armor ... they cannot be level based (since they dont exist in the game) and I am not going to be amused that my gladiator armor now requires 8 tactics as I gone a strenght path with my W/E.

I said level restrictions, not attribute requirements. If Droknar's armor sets require you to be Lvl 20, then theres no sense in getting there until you actualy are 20. You're better off playing the game normaly than running to Droknars at lvl 6.

It doesn't affect anyone who played the game normaly at all, and it would take away one of the primary reasons for people running there.

Those who still want to go through Lornar's early in the game could still do so if they so chose. They just wouldn't be able to take anything back with them that would give them an unfair advantage.

Quote:

Only way is to cut the map acess or restrict it by putting a outpost that spawns two maps and in order to be taken from one to the other you have to talk to a NPC that checks the player to see if Dragon Lair mission was completed.

This sounds like far more trouble than its worth. Even just outright cutting access would be better than that.

Tony Tovar · Jul 10, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

I don't agree in scamming people, but I agree in stoping low levels from running to Droknars with payed escorts or guildies. It makes low level PvP extremely one sided and unfair to those who want to play the game the right way.

none · Jul 10, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

Personaly, the only thing I realy mind is people who just go there to buy the best armor so that they can breeze through the rest of the game or abuse the low level arenas. Most of them will bitch and moan and act like jackasses about it all the way too.

It's something that is easily fixed by putting level restrictions on armor. And will most likely cut down the number of people traveling through there significantly.

I don't think that level restrictions would be a good idea. And there's more than one reason that makes me think this way. First, something that gets me wondering every time since I first played through the game: Why is it, that everyones level is so high above that of the henchies? From my understanding, and from my experiences, all missions are designed in a way that they prove a challenge (yet are absolutely possible, in a competent team) if you're about the same level as the henchies in the mission outpost. However, if I go anywhere now - and it doesn't matter much if this is Ascalon, the Jungle or the Crystal Desert, people tend to be way off the henchies. This yields two results - it makes most of the missions too easy (a reason to complain), yet it makes those missions difficult that don't require a certain level, but a certain tactic, a 'skill' that you don't develop by levelling but rather by conscient playing; the second result is closely related, it's the constant bitching of so-called high-levels about supposedly low-lvl guys in the same areas. And by that I don't talk about lvl 5's in the Oasis, but rather about lvl 15's that made their way there. More often than not they will have a hard time finding a group, which leads to excessive usage of henchies - and usually further improves the tactical and insight knowledge of the game, making most of them (if they weren't brought along by 'high-lvls') more valuable than those that are at lvl 20 already.

I'm pretty sure that ANet originally didn't expect players to be at lvl 20 when they ascend, otherwise the jump to lvl 20 wouldn't have been implemented originally (and it took some time for them to change it to the current reward - unfortunately). How does this impact Armor restrictions? Well, people will expect armor to be restricted to levels far higher than is actually feasible. If most (and this isn't much of an exaggeration) players are lvl 20 when they arrive at Henge of Denravi, they will want the crafters there to have armor exclusive to lvl 20's, else there will be even more constant bitching.

Next point that strikes me is something that has been mentioned elswhere by other people already: This game is not supposed to tell you how to play, but rather fit into your personal gaming style. If I want to go to Droknars before I ascend because I think it's a challenge/fun/or simply a change from the usual, then that's where I get the most fun out of the game. There's two parts to this argument: You can't just get to Droknar's and buy the armor there, if you didn't a) play through the game with another char to get the money/materials b) did some excessive farming (so you either levelled up by farming and aren't so low-lvl anymore, or just spent horrendous amound in low-lvl areas, which is beyond what I would call fun, but is of course your very own playing style). The only way that needs to be stopped is c) if you got your money through eBay or any other such institution. But that's against the EULA anyway, and ANet has their own way to deal with it. The first two ways however, are - in my understanding - completely legitimate, and just offer additional challenges/objectives to everyones gameplay. The least commendable objective is that of those players that want to rule the lowbie-arena at Ascalon. It's definitely nothing that is fun to me, but there seem to be those that draw some kind of fun from it. Yes, this might be a nuisance to those that only just left pre-searing and want to have fun, but are simply overpowered by the better equipment, yet, I wouldn change anything about it. In the end, those that practise their skills (provided you can call that training) on Newbies won't get far in the HoH or even the top-notch team arenas. They might get some feeling of superiority out of winning against Newbies, but they will always be sub-standard against anyone trying to improve his skills against 'real' opponents. Besides, the newbies might indeed profit from it, because they can learn how to win against better equipment (eg DoTs against high armor class). And if they're real newbies, they won't spend so much time in Ascalon anyway, because they will want to go on to the next Are(n)a - I know I didn't spend more than half an hour in the Ascalon Arena before I got back to missions and quests.

That said, it won't matter much for me, if they implement level-restrictions on equipment, I already filled my four slots with PvE-chars and finished the game with each of them - and took the Beacon's Perch-Droknar's Forge-Expressway at lvl 11 only with the last, because I was looking for a new challenge. And for me it was almost as much fun doing the missions in the Southern Shiverpeaks and the Volcanic Island Chain from 11-15 instead of lvl 20 to lvl 20. Besides, my first travel (after Ice Caves) lead to Granite Citadel to get my 2nd Armor (after the one from Ascalon) for my char

(which might be a nice workaround - don't put level restrictions on 'ascended' armor, because that's so expensive that no Newb can get a full set the legitimate way).

edit: There's something I forgot. Those behaving like idiots after they got their armor - well, they will behave that way no matter what armor they wear, and you either just don't play with them (more than once) or think positive: that lvl 15 W/Mo without the slightest idea of tactics that is aggroing way too many monsters at least won't die that fast, because he's wearing ascended armor. So equipment negates skill - in a way

(which doesn't imply that I wouldn't resurrect him, if he manages to behave rude enough)

Guild Powder · Jul 10, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

It's not fair anet makes it so hard to complete game with new char. We already did it once. Just give us UAS and access to all places we have been

EmperorTippy · Jul 10, 2005, 06:41 PM // 18:41

If they add lvl restrictions to armor or spawn new maps for LOmars pass then they should add a lvl restriction to UW and FoW. My guild uses those 2 for quick leveling. We can do 2 man smite runs so we bring 6 low level guildes with us and level them VERY quick. I also get guildes to rush me to Droknar's for the armor (I beat the game on 2 chars before doing this). The point is WHO CARES what other people do. A person getting better armor or skills doesn't hurt anything except the people who take the Ascalon and Yaks Bend PvP seriously (which should be no one). If you are mad at seeing lvl 15's at Hells Precipice don't take them in your group. Why should you force anyone to listen to the story more than 1 time anyways (its pretty bad).

As for the OP stop scamming people. Your why my guildes rushers all require full payment at snake dance and if you don't pay you are keft there while everyone who payed maps back to Becons Perch and we get replacments for the non payers. Then we tell all the rushers that any of us nos of your IGN and no one will rush you any more without upfront payment and a penalty for quitting. So far we have a group of 20 Rushers (7 in guild and 13 others) who do this and it works quite well.

arnansnow · Jul 10, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Powder

It's not fair anet makes it so hard to complete game with new char. We already did it once. Just give us UAS and access to all places we have been

If you want an easier game, play some reader rabbit games, you can win those plenty of times! If they give us UAS and access, what is the point of starting anew? Part of the fun of games like these are starting a new character, and this would ruin it.

crazy diamond · Jul 10, 2005, 06:50 PM // 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by none

More often than not they will have a hard time finding a group, which leads to excessive usage of henchies - and usually further improves the tactical and insight knowledge of the game, making most of them (if they weren't brought along by 'high-lvls') more valuable than those that are at lvl 20 already.

Quite the contrary. They miss out on valuable experience gained by actualy playing the game with other people, and many times end up doing ridiculously stupid things that any basic player would know. You get newbies in a high level area where you expect a greater degree of ability and skill.

I had a warrior figure out how adrenaline worked during the Abadons Mouth mission! It came as no surprise to me that he got run over and never played through the actual game! A player wearing full plate sitting in Iron Mines of Moladune asking what the difference was between expert and regular salvage kits, healing Monks that say that they won't use Divine Favor because 'it sucks', and Me/E's who think fast cast will make them uber-nukers are some of the idiots off the top of my head that I can remember grouping with who no doubt got run early in the game.

I also remember one fellow who got rushed up into Ring of Fire without so much as being infused! The mursaat would drop him like a rock in 2 seconds and he'd still swear up and down that he had been infused, which was obviously bullshit.

These are the kinds of idiots you have to deal with when you don't restrict the higher level areas.

EmperorTippy · Jul 10, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

A possible fix would be to only allow people to access Lomar's Pass after their ACCOUNT has reached Droknar's Forge. This should cut down on the idiots who get rushed on the first char and still allow those who know what their doing to not have to put up with the story again.

Jade · Jul 10, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I honestly don't see what the big fricken deal is. So people get rushed. Whoopee! Why do you care? I personally don't care. There are things in this game that bother me and Droknar rushers are not one of them. If you really want to put those "I'LL RUSH TO DROKNAR'S FOR 3K" guys, do it yourself and don't charge money. I've had 2 of my characters rushed to Droknar's and both times it was free. The last time I had to force the guy to take 2k from me. The reason I payed him is because it was so damn entertaining! You shoulda seen this guy zipping and weaving, dashing then resting, even dying a couple times. It took us a while but he got ust there! The rest of us meanwhile would chat it up and had a good time just making conversation. So instead of taking out your crying towel and complaining that people are charging money for it, put them out of business by doing it for free. And like I said before I honestly don't see what the big deal is that there's a level 10 guy running around Droknar's begging for steel and linen. I get a good laugh out of that too because I know that there's no way in hell that these chuckle heads can even step outside of town with out dying within 30 seconds. (in case anyone was wondering, both the characters that I had rushed were lvl 20 before they even got there.)

PieXags · Jul 10, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

The only thing that makes me mad is when noobs don't know what they're doing and they pay some guy 3k to get rushed to droknars, and then you party with them in Iron Mines and they seem like fine people, by then say they're lvl 19, maybe 20 if they did all the missions and quests and what not. Sometimes you'll party with some around 15-16, no big deal, the mission isn't tough.

Then you get halfway through it and some warrior decides to try to run to the "seer" by himself, just a shame he later admitted he didn't know the way. Then two more ask "whats infusion?", and then they go afk unless we get them infused now that they know what it does. The reason for all this?

"Well, we just rushed to droknars and skipped ascension and all that so...we don't really know the story or anything here."

That's what pisses me off.

Ishamael Sedai · Jul 10, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Powder

He wanted 2k upfront and i told him at ranknor.

WTF is up with that.

I'm getting flamed cause i hustled a hustler? The funny thing is that like 1 person paid him out of all of us. So im glad others were brave too.

What does bravery have to do with not paying someone over a video game who you do not know nor will ever see?

chaos dragoon · Jul 10, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

i dont see what the big deal is.if you dont like rushers dont get rushed.and if you dont want to pay,every once in a while there is some1 doing it free.for all the people against rushers,it is their way of making money.would you like it if ANet took away your way of making money?and 1 post said a guy was charging upfront.almost always a guy charging upfront takes your money and leaves. if they plan on actually taking you to droknars there is no reason the cant tke payment and snakes or rankor.

Ishamael Sedai · Jul 10, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

Quite the contrary. They miss out on valuable experience gained by actualy playing the game with other people, and many times end up doing ridiculously stupid things that any basic player would know. You get newbies in a high level area where you expect a greater degree of ability and skill.

I had a warrior figure out how adrenaline worked during the Abadons Mouth mission! It came as no surprise to me that he got run over and never played through the actual game! A player wearing full plate sitting in Iron Mines of Moladune asking what the difference was between expert and regular salvage kits, healing Monks that say that they won't use Divine Favor because 'it sucks', and Me/E's who think fast cast will make them uber-nukers are some of the idiots off the top of my head that I can remember grouping with who no doubt got run early in the game.

I also remember one fellow who got rushed up into Ring of Fire without so much as being infused! The mursaat would drop him like a rock in 2 seconds and he'd still swear up and down that he had been infused, which was obviously bullshit.

These are the kinds of idiots you have to deal with when you don't restrict the higher level areas.

you don't have to deal with them even if they are there....do they force you to add them to your group?

Aracos79 · Jul 10, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmperorTippy

A possible fix would be to only allow people to access Lomar's Pass after their ACCOUNT has reached Droknar's Forge. This should cut down on the idiots who get rushed on the first char and still allow those who know what their doing to not have to put up with the story again.

I think this is one of the most sensible solutions to Forge running I've heard. I'll admit to being very much against the practice personally, but I think this solution would keep both sides happy. People like me won't have to worry (so much) about n00bs bragging in ascalon about their l33t Forge armor and ruining late-game missions with their foolishness. And people in favor of running who don't want to play the whole game again will have the opportunity to bypass the story

Drakron · Jul 10, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

I said level restrictions, not attribute requirements. If Droknar's armor sets require you to be Lvl 20 ...

There are no level requirements in anything in the game, if they made level restrictions they have to implement level requirements since there is no other way to make a level restriction.

hotspur · Jul 10, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Err, stand by for a nOOb question, what is a Droknar Rusher?

arnansnow · Jul 10, 2005, 09:07 PM // 21:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotspur

Err, stand by for a nOOb question, what is a Droknar Rusher?

It is a high-level person who takes people from Beacon's Perch down to Droknar's Forge, usually for money.

hotspur · Jul 10, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

OK thanks, & whats at Droknars Forge to make it worth while to pay?

Emrys · Jul 10, 2005, 09:20 PM // 21:20

High-end armor.

Droknar's runners don't really bother me, but it amazes me how out of hand this taxi thing has gotten. I see people in Ascalon asking for runners to Piken's Square. Piken's for Chrissakes! I made it there with henchmen at what, level 6?

Mawgleah · Jul 10, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Powder

It's not fair anet makes it so hard to complete game with new char. We already did it once. Just give us UAS and access to all places we have been

This from the guy who has posted two threads in this forum complaining about how bored he is.