Curse

Eonwe · Jul 27, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

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Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

I'm frankly confused by this. Do you mean that warriors armor shouldn't just be better than Mesmer armor, or are you referring to the different types of Warrior armor? Do you mean just high level armors, or that it's bad that there are different levels throughout PvE (seems unlikely)?

Just confused.

He was talking about how there's no reason to be using anything other than gladiator's armor along with knight's boots, and ofcourse stonefists if you happen to be using a hammer, and your +1 helm.

Saerden · Jul 27, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

I'm frankly confused by this. Do you mean that warriors armor shouldn't just be better than Mesmer armor, or are you referring to the different types of Warrior armor? Do you mean just high level armors, or that it's bad that there are different levels throughout PvE (seems unlikely)?

Just confused.

Gladiator armor is balanced by looks only.

[Your thoughts on the metagame seem to go in the same direction then mine do. But there are a couple good arguments, especially the last one by blackace, that the current state removes options that dont really need to be removed. the question is wether there are other, hidden factors that will force this game down to "broken build vs broken build counter" no matter what.]

taion · Jul 27, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I think this forum would be much more amusing if it kept the little snippets for deleted posts, so you can have amusing runs of everything being deleted, as you might see in the sister thread on another GW fansite.

Honestly, though, I think the entire alpha process needs to be assessed if we still have these current imbalances. The devs can't possibly be unaware of the gross imbalances currently present, so why don't they do anything? It's been months – surely more than enough time to tweak enough numbers to create a new, more balanced environment, and even if it hasn't, a halfway fix would be better than none. Clearly, systemic changes to a number of skills need to go in, and I think the majority of the community would be happy enough just to see progress toward changes, even if it takes multiple update cycles to finally arrive at a properly balanced result.

Strictly speaking, powerful symmetric effects such as NR do not create a degenerate metagame for reasons I described above (much less so than powerful normal effects such as Putrid, anyway), but the real problem with NR really is that it's just no fun, in the same manner that even now, Fertile Season and a heavily defensive build can create matches that are boring stalemates. I honestly see that effect as a more severe flaw to NR than its actual power level. Again, there's minimal real harm in a skill being pervasive if it doesn't cause a degenerate metagame (and symmetric skills really can't do that, because if one dominates, there must exist some level of tweaking a build for the mirror such that the tweaked anti-mirror build loses to other builds) – to use an analogy I brought up earlier, every deck in T1 Magic that can do so runs Force of Will and to a great extent this defines the flow of play in T1, but this is hardly taken as a sign of imbalance. The only substantial difference between FoW and NR is that NR is seen to make the environment less fun. It's in the nature of powerful symmetric effects that they pretty much do have to be powerful enough to define a game so they can be at the same powerful level as normal effects, but it seems like their presence in the form of nature rituals as they currently are is an intentional consequence of design, not an accidental imbalance.

Aniewiel · Jul 27, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Taion, all posts that are removed are 'soft deleted' insomuch as they are viewable by the admins and mods. None of them are hard deleted. But trust me when I say that NOTHING is deleted that pertains or is germaine to the conversation. Most of what goes away is spam or flame bait.

Vorlin · Jul 27, 2005, 06:51 PM // 18:51

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Originally Posted by IxChel

Someone else also suggested making Nature's Renewal affect enchantments/hexes when it has run full-term (so you can kill it first to avoid that effect), rather than when it is created.

Another possiblity might be to have it so that it removes 1 enchantment/hex every X seconds until the spirit dies or is killed off.

goku19123 · Jul 27, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

146 skills become nearly or completely useless when NR hits the floor - clearly something is wrong.

Seriously...1 skill makes 146 skills unusable...globally.

As for Ethereal Renewal: If anyone says that it isn't overpowered, then they haven't seen the sheer power of 15 pips of energy regeneration, or considerably more if you want to really get it going.

taion · Jul 27, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

There are actually top 10 guilds out there that run NR and significant numbers of hexes. Yes, NR is probably overpowered, but it helps nobody to overstate the case against it.

goku19123 · Jul 27, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Using NR as a whole punch is viable, not using it until necessary. The point: Now every new team build coming up is doing so under the umbrella of 1 skill - that is not an overstatement, but the truth.

Ensign · Jul 27, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

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