Curse

Reiden Argrock · Jul 25, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

After playing one char all the way through, and many other chars to get a feel for the different class's, I'd say I have a little experience with the game, so hear me out.

Throughout my travels, I've seen many different strategies and class's combos, but their have always been a few attributes that seem to get bashed or just don't seem to have that much purpose. I know that on the forums people complain alot about how pets are useless, well I want to go a step further and discuss the whole Beast Mastery line.

To start with, this is the only attribute that contains NO elite skills. I just completed my own personal skill checklist to use, and Beast Mastery has no Elites. Now I know their are others that only have 1 such as Earth Magic, or Swordsmanship, and then their are some that have 4 or 5 like Strength and Protection Prayers. Now I'm sure that A-net has their reasons, but considering that Beast Mastery is probably the least used attribute, I think their is some room for improving this skill line. Actually, let me refrase that as I have begun to see many people using the different spirits from beast mastery, and some warriors and such using Tiger's Fury, so it does get used, however, as a primary attribute for any char, is what I'm reffering to. Such as a warrior will focus on Axe or Sword, and an Elementalist will focus on a specific spell line, such as Air or Fire, (I've noticed water is pretty underused as well, although I think it is a great attribute.) But Beast mastery is pretty much only ever used as a support line, and rarely at that.

Now what could be the reason that Beast Mastery is never considered for a primary attribute? Well, first off, no elites, that is a major drawback for me, why are their no elites for Beast Mastery? Second, your pet, a major topic of discussion on many boards, about how pets are no good. Well, actually, pets aren't that bad, they do pretty good damage, and the skills that affect your pet are all good in different setups, but the AI of the pet seems to be where most of the problem lies. While going out solo, a pet is great, but once you get to the later part of the game, pets become pretty much useless, and Rangers are usually only wanted, for traps, or pulling, and so they don't have room for a useless pet. Part of the problem with Rangers who have pets and go to pull, is that, once you attack a mob, your pet will run in there like a Leroy Jenkins and agro everything, defeating the whole purpose of pulling. Now nobody wants a pet.

So to end this off, 2 things to help improve the use of Beast Mastery, and so we see more pets running around later in the game...

Put in 1 or 2 elites for this skill line, and secondly pet commands, so that bringing a pet into a mission will be a viable option and improve the variety of rangers of today.

Now I understand that doing this, may take some time to be implemented, but if I could get a response, perhaps from Gaile, or another dev, on why Beast Mastery doesn't contain any elites, I would greatly appreciate it, and I look forward to all the new updates coming our way. Thanks.

-Reiden

Kiiron · Jul 25, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Actually, I think there is one Elite for BM: Ferocious Strike

Cost:5
Your animal companion attempts a Ferocious Strike that deals +13-28 damage. If that attack hits, you gain adrenaline and 3-10 energy.

Reiden Argrock · Jul 25, 2005, 09:46 PM // 21:46

really? I'll go check it out, if there is one, it's not listed on Guru skill list.

ahh, your right, it's just not marked as an elite, however, I still think that beast Mastery could use a few upgrades so to speak, so that it becomes a more viable primary attribute.

MasterQu · Jul 25, 2005, 09:55 PM // 21:55

I totally agree about putting in a command structure for your pet I think it should be there for necro minions as well, or have different AI molds for them. Like Defensive, attacking ,and such. Way back in the day there was a game called Fallout. As you went along you gained npcs to join your party. You could assign those same npc's with a tatics type like "defensive only" or "Barbarian". Depending on what classification you assigned them determined what they would do in battle. I know other games have used this as well I"m just blanking on em, but as far as I know fallout was the first. Granted it wasn't perfect, but it made a big diffence at times.

Another thing that happens when i play as a ranger is I attack a monster and my pet goes after it, then a whole bunch of mobs zerg me while my pets way off in lala land. I would love to see a skill built that when activated makes your pet distract the mobs and make them attack it instead of me. Talk about a life saver. You could call it something like "Lure Away" or something.

(Thinks to himself) Mobs attacking!
(spams lure away)
(realizes out of energy)
(says) Ohhh @#$%

Guess it wouldn't work all the time

Semore · Jul 25, 2005, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Henchmen commands wouldn't be bad either.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 25, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Reiden Argrock, Great points and all but can we all pleaser refrain from further posting here and continue posting on the existing thread?
Pet Suggestions here
You've made some great points and all but The boards getting crowded enough. As extra incentive Anet is also watching this thread.

Reiden Argrock · Jul 25, 2005, 10:16 PM // 22:16

This post wasn't intended to be about pets exactly, rather about Beast Mastery in it's entirety. While Pets make up the majority of this line, I don't think their is need for a huge discussion about pets, as the only problem their seems to be is that they cannot be controlled, I appologize for starting a new thread, but I believe if I had posted this in an already huge thread, it would be overlooked, and my main points, (that the Beast Mastery skill line is lacking) would not get any attention.

So please, do not consider this a Pet thread, rather a I would like to focus on Beast Mastery and not get rejected by every group I try to get into.

=HT=Ingram · Jul 25, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

confirmed I have the Ferocious Strike Elite Skill for my Lev 20 Dune Lizard. and it is excellent for Ranger / Warriors cause it yields adrenaline, and energy as well as the extra +13-28 dmg for the pet to strike.

Using beast mastery is also great for some of the spirits it drops. Fertile Season, Energizing Wind, Edge of extinction, are all great non pet skills from BM. I like to use my pet though. When I go without it I act like a warrior instead. But when I have my pet I stock up on pet skills and expertise bow attacks. I can play both ways rather comfortably. Depends on what the team needs.

The Disrupting Lunge and Ferocious Strike are two of the best pet skills. Otyugh's Cry is cool too in the jungle regions. unfortanatly they dropped the lev of all the animals in this area. Simply cause in the past you used to be able to use Otyugh's Cry and get a bunch of lev 15 lynx or hedgehogs to swarm the mobs like crazy... in a sence having a dozen pets. back in beta I cleared out the falls solo this way. so I can understand why they made the pets lower level. But its still cool to go down there and have all those pets working with you. even at level 5. lol

But it takes a lot of skill to learn how to manage your pets, and how to attack and draw with a long bow and keep your pet with you. I was really good in Thunderhead Keep with the king cause he acted just like the pets do, and I knew how to keep him back when we needed too and protect him. up till the end when he disconnects from the person that first clicked on him and starts acting like an idiot and running into every MOB.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 26, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reiden Argrock

This post wasn't intended to be about pets exactly, rather about Beast Mastery in it's entirety. While Pets make up the majority of this line, I don't think their is need for a huge discussion about pets, as the only problem their seems to be is that they cannot be controlled, I appologize for starting a new thread, but I believe if I had posted this in an already huge thread, it would be overlooked, and my main points, (that the Beast Mastery skill line is lacking) would not get any attention.

So please, do not consider this a Pet thread, rather a I would like to focus on Beast Mastery and not get rejected by every group I try to get into.

Alright reiden good point and well made, let's avoid pets in general and look at the line in general.

Now Belive it or not this line get's a workout even withour pets. Recently I created two Ranger/Warriors builds for our all pet build. The damn things are being copied to death now and people are dropping the pet for a self heal and taking them to random arena. I see them all the time.
The spirt Predatory Season and Tigers Fury are terribly powerful abilities. Energising winds is the perfect counter to Quickening Zepher. Also in the beast mastery tree.
Fertile season. Name a tombser who hasn't seen this spirt.
And last but defintly not least the most EVIL spirt in existance. The power to rain down armaggedon, Cause more dmg then a spiker could ever hope to archive and make putrid explosion look like a tickle.
Edge of Extinction. This spirt can (And often does) cause a chain reaction that can wipe out 2 teams in the blink of an eye.
It's also awsome for tearing apart minion heavy teams, Spirt spammers, and any monster you may be fighting in PvE (Assuming it's not human!)
There's also primal echos but it's not getting much use at present as signet heavy builds aren't used enough to warrent a space for it.

On the elites note remeber that sword doesn't have an elites either. Neither does Soul Reaping or Sword. And as it has been mentioned feroius strike is elite (For VERY good reasons.)

Pet's are very viable in PvE now becuase they have been infused. If you have multiple rangers with pets you can have one bring revive animal so the rest don't have to bring comfort. Otygys cry also gives ALL pets in the area 20 armour. giving a lvl 20 pet 80 armour. The same as your average tank. They serve as awsome distractions and in large numbes or use of skills (Disupting lunge and ferous strike) can hold thier own in dmg and annoyance factor.

GAh! New I'd get on the pets line again! Sorry.

MoldyRiceFrenzy · Jul 26, 2005, 01:41 AM // 01:41

i have to agree 100% the pet AI is a piece of crap, i mean it takes like 5 seconds for it to attack its target once it actually gets to the target... thats not so good for disrupting strike... i mean it gets there while the caster is casting, then sits there. omg it does the attack RIGHT after the caster does his/her spell...

Morganas · Jul 26, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Adding elites to a skill line usually won't make it better, assuming you're taking a second line that also has elites. If anything, having too many elites is way worse. Illusion and water are both extremely restrictive compared to lines with fewer elites.

If anything, the only reason beast mastery remains for specialty builds (usually using the spirits or tigers fury) is because it takes waaay too many skill slots to make a pet viable, unless you're a necro just using him for fuel. Merging the pet rez and the charm pet skill would solve the problem nicely. Perhaps add an elite skill that's a combo of the two? That would make it so pet builds have to specialize, but have room for *something* that's not a pet only skill.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 26, 2005, 07:14 AM // 07:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Reiden Argrock, Great points and all but can we all pleaser refrain from further posting here and continue posting on the existing thread?
Pet Suggestions here
You've made some great points and all but The boards getting crowded enough. As extra incentive Anet is also watching this thread.

Actually, I think we can expand this thread to include the other overlooked professions in addition to Beast Master - Earth and Water Elementalist and the Necro in general. I enjoy playing any of these because they are the most under rated profs out there.

The reason for this is because it actually takes some planning and strategy to using these profs with success - something most RPGers out there know nothing about (but anyone who has put time in on RTS or TBS games does). The only thing that could make these professions better is a webcam shot of my opponent's face when they realize they got pwned by their own stupidity for underestimating me.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Shadow_Avenger · Jul 26, 2005, 10:25 AM // 10:25

If A.net show damage done by pets and all other members of group, perhaps have them color coded, even have pet / group damage toggleable 99% of pet arguements would disappear. The majority of the arguement is that you feel pets are useles as you cannot see the effect it is having. Having Allies health bars also include number of HP would help also. Then you would be able to see your pets HP and how beastmastery increases the HP and attack damage of your pet. It would also encourage people to use pet related skills. The pet skills do also need FX to show that a skill has been used and has hit.

Beast mastery and ranger skills do not need improving, but display damage and FX for pet skills needs to be implemented.

BrokenSymmetry · Jul 26, 2005, 11:25 AM // 11:25

This is a very good point made by Shadow_Avenger. A large part of the satisfaction of using combat skills in any RPG is seeing exactly how mch damage you're doing. Simply adding damage numbers for the your pet attacks would alreadt help greatly in seeing the usefulness of the pet.

MasterQu · Jul 26, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

One of the hardest builds i think to work with is a N/R. At first I thought this would b a powerfull build dedicated strictly to beasts/minions. Personally i view them the same. I quickly came to realize that no where do the skills and abilities compliment each other unlike the popular w/mo build. Except for the pet being fuel but still thats awaste of a skill slot then. What I think would make this work is to make ranger beast skills work on minions as well and vice versa. I mean they are in essense the same except the minions have short life spans which is fine. Could you imagine being able to use supernova on your pet or infuse condition?

I think when you look at any class by itself the skills created flow well within that class. Now add a second profession, now you have some skills that work well together and some that don't. Unfortunatly this goes to the point that some professions don't work together ie: N/R. What Anet needs to do know is to work on the skills complimenting each other with your primary/second profession.

Plainly stated not all professions are created equal.

Mithie · Jul 26, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterQu

Way back in the day there was a game called Fallout. As you went along you gained npcs to join your party. You could assign those same npc's with a tatics type like "defensive only" or "Barbarian". Depending on what classification you assigned them determined what they would do in battle.

It doesn't matter what stance you put Vic in, he will always shoot you in the back of the head with a shotgun during battle.

Lorelei · Jul 26, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterQu

Personally i view them the same. I quickly came to realize that no where do the skills and abilities compliment each other unlike the popular w/mo build. Except for the pet being fuel but still thats awaste of a skill slot then. What I think would make this work is to make ranger beast skills work on minions as well and vice versa. I mean they are in essense the same except the minions have short life spans which is fine. Could you imagine being able to use supernova on your pet or infuse condition?

Uhhh not sure I like the idea.

MasterQu · Jul 26, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Well look at it this way you have 10 minions zergign a mob and you push "Ferocious Strike". Talk about spike damage. Granted not the best for PVP..sigh