Curse

Cymboric Treewalker · Jul 30, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

To the dev team:

The situation:

People are getting run at sub-level 10 to Droknar and getting the best armor. They are also getting run to elite skills so that they may cap them. They then take these items and skills back to Ascalon and proceed to mop up. Certain elites have no counter at that level.

Poison Arrow for example - there is no way to cure that while people are actually using skills found in true level 8 areas.

The suggested fix:

Make it simple... people can not enter the mission is Ascalon arena with elite skills or armor from behind Lion's Arch.

The need:

This game's longevity is based on PvP and people know that. New players who want to get a taste of it will be turned off when some loser decides to own people with elite skills and armor. This will cause harm to the community. The practice should be stopped immediately.

For my part I will start to maintain a list of player names who do this on my site. Any guilds that want to use the list as a reference feel free to PM me - I will give you the address to it. If any guilds want to assist in maintaining a list of this nature please PM me as well.

Thanks
Cymboric Treewalker
Guild Leader Sacred Forge Knights

Aracos79 · Jul 30, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

While I respect your effort, and even agree with your reasoning, I don't see this happening for a couple of reasons. First of all, Ascalon Arena PvP is hardly taken seriously by anyone. The real PvP starts when you get to the non-capped random arena in Lion's Arch. The number of people who are affected by this problem is so small that I don't think it ranks highly on ANet's list of things to address.

Secondly, and this is just my opinion, I don't think ANet cares that people can do this. They put Lornar's Pass there, they allowed direct access to Droknar's Forge for people who are able to make it, and therefore by default they allow people to pay to have their low level characters run there. So as long as ANet makes this possible, I have to believe they are ok with people abusing high level gear in the capped arenas.

Now, if they were to prove me wrong by say... preventing non-ascended characters from entering Droknar's Forge that would be a-ok with me.

DrSLUGFly · Jul 30, 2005, 08:28 PM // 20:28

I don't PvP and whether I say "regardless" or "therefore", I agree fully. There should be an attached armor limit along with the level limit for the arena. Likewise, you should not be able use capped elites in the Arena.

Acheus Lokine · Jul 30, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

I agree with the OP. To Aracos: It's not that a bunch of newbies are getting wiped, it's that a bunch of people who have the money to get run to Droknar's and buy armor for their low level character are farming faction. It's an exploit and thus should be fixed.

Aracos79 · Jul 30, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acheus Lokine

I agree with the OP. To Aracos: It's not that a bunch of newbies are getting wiped, it's that a bunch of people who have the money to get run to Droknar's and buy armor for their low level character are farming faction. It's an exploit and thus should be fixed.

I disagree. First of all, if it was an exploit ANet would not allow it. They would either close Lornar's Pass, stop non-ascended characters from entering the Forge at all, or put a lvl limit on Forge armor. They have done none of these things, and this has been possible ever since the game went live. Such a long period of inaction tells me they don't care. Even if you only count since the implementation of Faction... it has still been almost a month with no reaction from ANet.

Second, if you are farming faction from the Ascalon Arena, you'll die of boredom before you get enough faction to unlock anything substantial. The faction rewards there are so low, and unlock prices are so high... you'd have to grind it all day long just to unlock a rune or two. Plus, having Forge armor is not a guarantee of victory. A guildmate of mine stomped on runners a handful of times on his way to a 19 win streak.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jul 30, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Aracos79 - I respect your opinion but basing it on the inaction of ANet is not valid. You either think that it does not impact the game community or you think it does. At this point I do not see it as an exploit, but I firmly believe that new players who want to get a taste of the arena should have an unspoiled place to do it in. Heck put an arena in Pre for all I care - just do something to allow new players to get a FAIR experience. This is supposed to be a game based on skill - not look at my uber loot. In this one case it becomes a game of elite stuff defeating entire teams unless they too get elite stuff.

If ANet doesn't fix it then they have lost my respect for taking care of fostering the community to grow. I loved my first experience in the Ascalon Arena... it gave me a taste for what PvP was all about... it made me want more. Each time I take a new character to the Arena now I just want to never go there again. It is overrun with teenage punks that need to get their morale boosted telling everyone that they pwnd them with the uber skill at the game - when all it really was was having armor and skills/spells that there are no counters for in the Ascalon Arena.

Aracos79 · Jul 30, 2005, 09:37 PM // 21:37

I absolutely agree with your position. What's happening in the low level arenas is unfair (not to mention off-putting for new players looking to get their PvP feet wet) but without any evidence to the contrary, I have to believe this is a non-issue for ANet. I don't like the implications of that any more than you do. I certainly would like to think they want the best experience for everyone. But their lack of action on this (which is just an off-shoot of Forge running in general) allows me to draw no other conclusion.

I have been waiting for weeks now to see ANet address Forge running SOMEHOW, either positively or negatively. But they've been totally silent on the issue, and the associated problems that it has caused such as this one. I truly hope that this does change, but I am not expecting anything.

DrSLUGFly · Jul 30, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Forge running isn't and has never been a problem... it's actually a nice option.

The problem is people getting twinked. This has been taken care of with weapons via customization but it hasn't been handled with armor yet

Aracos79 · Jul 30, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

Forge running isn't and has never been a problem... it's actually a nice option.

The problem is people getting twinked. This has been taken care of with weapons via customization but it hasn't been handled with armor yet

Perhaps I misspoke... by "address" I simply mean that I would like some direct comment from ANet about whether they intended people to use Lornar's Pass to bypass 2/3rds of the game and max themselves with armor and elite skills. Access to the Forge isn't the "problem". What some griefers DO with that access is. My apologies if I did not make that clear.

DrSLUGFly · Jul 30, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

no... as stated in my first post on this thread, I don't PvP really. But it sucks that someone can get a 4k run to droknar and twink themselves with max armor then go to Ascalon Arena and play against someone who bought the CD a week ago. However it would equally suck if those who were on their 3rd and 4th characters had to be restricted in where they could go...

I think the best compromise isn't to further nerf Lornar's (which has been sort of done I think) but rather to add more limitations than just level on the Ascalon Arena.

Yen-lo-wang · Jul 30, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

Secondly, and this is just my opinion, I don't think ANet cares that people can do this. They put Lornar's Pass there, they allowed direct access to Droknar's Forge for people who are able to make it, and therefore by default they allow people to pay to have their low level characters run there. So as long as ANet makes this possible, I have to believe they are ok with people abusing high level gear in the capped arenas.

TBH, I think Anet made Lornar's the way they did for a reason... to say "yes, you CAN go there, but..." with the "but" being the mobs of rather large creatures. I think the effect was intended for people to have reactions like I did when I first entered Lornar's: someone who's at Beacon's Perch, gets the quest to go on through the Deldrimor Bowl (or whatever the other area out of Borlis is), see Lornar's and out of curiosity, poke their head out to look... and haul ass back when they see that the beasties out there are double their level or more.

Yes it creates the potential for situations like this, but it COSTS, and few beyond people who have already been through a time or two can afford it at that point, much less know that it can happen. Those people can then shave some time off character development with a quick and (relatively by then) cheap run through a sticky spot. I'm not opposed to the runs entirely, but I do frown on those who take their first character through one before they should. I took my second character through one, but only after he was level 20 and had reached the Desert.

Cymboric Treewalker · Jul 30, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yen-lo-wang

Yes it creates the potential for situations like this, but it COSTS, and few beyond people who have already been through a time or two can afford it at that point, much less know that it can happen. Those people can then shave some time off character development with a quick and (relatively by then) cheap run through a sticky spot. I'm not opposed to the runs entirely, but I do frown on those who take their first character through one before they should. I took my second character through one, but only after he was level 20 and had reached the Desert.

I think it is good to be able to shave time of second, third, etc. character development... but there is no reason to allow twinked characters to grief at low level arenas.

Jaythen Tyradel · Jul 30, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

I have no problem with somone wanting the armor from Draknor early, but I can agree that for the uninitiated, this advantage would be seen as frustrating.
While "no one takes the Ascalon Arena seriously" as one poster stated, there are new people who try it out. When they realize that they are being left at a disadvantage, they can get upset and rightfully so.
However, without some major changes, this will probably not be fixed anytime soon.

Antonio Cappello · Jul 31, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

You can't use Droknar's armor in the capped arenas anymore, so ArenaNet obviously agrees. As for the prevention of skill capping, I'm not sure what could be done.

Racthoh · Jul 31, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

I agree, it has to be stopped. I've been PvPing with my new ranger because I wanted to get the hang of using a bow (which is a lot of fun).

But then I see someone with full platemail and I get really angry. I hate the fact I have to bring in a max damage bow just so I can hit them for 20 damage. Mind you I don't use the bow unless I see someone with Droknars armour. Well, that and say a Fellblade or Firey Dragon Sword. I'm just trying to give my team a chance.