Curse

Ancalagon06 · Jun 20, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Perhaps they already thought of this, but, I really think Arena.net should take the next logical step in the PvP section.

Make a true massively PvP map. 32 people to each side. A plethora of siege equipment. Tunnels that you can "unlock" to go under the enemie's walls by gathering rare red iris flowers (yeah, I know, a weird item, but it'd work) to give to a collector so he'd turn it into an explosive to blast open the jammed shut door.

Well, there are other ways to go about it, but, seriously, a 64 man battle would ROCK. I'd love to see a Aeromancer-Monk team of 32 people go head to head with War/Necs and Mesmers. With observation mode on the way, it would be awe inspiring to watch.

zman_acura · Jun 20, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41

i agree. If they did this you don't even know how happy i'd be!

Padre · Jun 20, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

The reason there are only 8-person teams in PvP is that any higher and real strategy breaks down. Try to coordinate a 32 man team.... and you'll get nothing but chaos as soon as you run into the other team.

it would be interesting to watch, i suppose, but not all that fun to play.

Ancalagon06 · Jun 20, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

from what I've experienced in battlegrounds in WoW, it's not only possible, but incredibly fun. It's still not enough to make me pay the monthly fee for WoW, but it came very close. Not to mention that when I played Battlefield, I fought in matches that large. It boils down to your side sitting down beforehand and picking out who will be boss, and then going from there.

A side note: the 64 person maps will have to be huge. Otherwise, it'll REALLY be grind wars, as people are forced to mob one another while healers desperatly spam healing spells from the back while elementalists try to get off a few good spells before the onrushing tide of swords and armors hits them.

On second thought, give us maps that are both large and small.

DrSLUGFly · Jun 20, 2005, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I fully agree!!! large scale maps, they don't even have to design the maps just give us PvPable instances out of PvE. Since the maps are done there would be dozens of ready-made maps for large scale wars. (although your idea of maps with stuff in the me is pretty good)

AS for the strategy breaking down, not at all. You just divide the labor. You have one person leading a team of 6 whose job is behind the scenes, casting hexes and enchantments. You have 3 people leading 3 teams of 6 whose job is front line attacking (with a healer on each team), plus one person organizing each of the 3 delivering messages to the leaders of each team. Then you have 2 people running catapults, and one person from the highest vantage point commanding the whole thing. That's 32. Bloody awesome. If this were implemented then 2 additions would be required.

A: A strategies center in guild hall with draw-on-able maps and blank boards, as well as a guild-only instance where 64 people could play at once (on two teams) Without this, it would indeed be chaos because there would be no way to organize since every time all players would be fighting for their lives and not fulfilling roles.

B: A way to divide the teams officially so that
-teams speak only to their leaders and within teams
-leaders speak only to the other leaders and their own teams
-attack commander speaks only to other leaders
-overall commander speaks only to leaders

EDIT: this would be easily handled with the !#$ buttons used already on PvE, @ would have to stay as guild and " would have to stay as whisper but ! could be to all players, # could be to team (ie. your division) and $ could be to leader and high commander only.

All toggle-able, but it would simplify communication down the lines and allow for better teamwork... man, this would completely rock!

Ytrill · Jun 20, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02

will never ever happen...Anet would have to change the entire GW skin for this...32 people in your party window? trying to scroll down every second to spam heal? Not likely. And like the above person stated, it would be complete chaos, there is no way you could lead 32 people...Especially random people. It's hard enough to get an 8 man group to form a strat.

ComMan · Jun 20, 2005, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Why does everyone want Guild Wars to have EVERYTHING WoW has?

Zeru · Jun 20, 2005, 04:13 AM // 04:13

GW pvp is different...as in, strategy based, not mob based or grind based. gw doesn't have to have what other games have, and while pvp needs more, this isn't the way to do it.

Ancalagon06 · Jun 20, 2005, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Actually, I want GW PvP to have everything that Battlefield 2 has.

I'm kidding. This didn't occur to me because of WoW, or BF2, though those are examples of how it might be done.

It wouldn't be hard to do, really. BF2 uses the squad system, where a team of 32 are (voluntarily) broken down into squads of 6, each with a leader. GW could implement something similar with ease. People who claim this would be pure chaos are right, it would be. If it was done like normal PvP. I'm thinking this would be an option for Guilds. While in a guild hall, you could form 4 parties of 8, set up like you want (or even more, smaller, parties, if you'd like). Then the guild leader (or officer) could initiate a Guild War, as opposed to a Guild Battle. Then ALL the teams in the guild hall would be taken into battle, not just the one team.

Or perhaps it could be pulled off with regular PvP. Other games have done it, it's possible to do it with GW. And I'm not just talking about WoW. :-P

EDIT: The Wars would force people to start developing strategies. Lord knows if Guild Battles and the Tombs can't force them to realize this, certainly this would. Because, if not this, then nothing else possibly could. Honestly, if massive matches of counterstrike, or battlefield, or any other FPS can easily be coordinated, then why can't GW? I know it's not entirely fair to compare GW to CS, but can't never could do anything.

King of Fools · Jun 20, 2005, 04:24 AM // 04:24

i like this idea http://vnboards.ign.com/Guild_Wars_C...2/88022447/?12

Ancalagon06 · Jun 20, 2005, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by King of Fools

i like this idea http://vnboards.ign.com/Guild_Wars_C...2/88022447/?12

This has nothing to do with the current suggestion, though...

edit: my bad, it actually does. An interesting idea. I think this idea, though, would be a little better, because the ability to attack another guild, regardless of anyone actually being there, can backfire badly.

DrSLUGFly · Jun 20, 2005, 04:34 AM // 04:34

If I want magic does that mean I want GW to have something WoW has? I've never even played WoW... a 32 man team would be damn cool. Sure it would be chaos, but make the map big. It wouldn't be total chaos since real people fight in the hundreds all the time, sometimes in the thousands (if we count separate battles, millions)...

If you have a guild of 50 or 100 people, how hard is it going to be to organize a team of 32? It won't be hard at all.

To YTrill! the spam heal wouldn't come into effect. The 6 man team is your "party" and the other teams are your allies. This could be done, I don't see in any possible way how it could be a bad thing. Once implemented those who choose not to do it, don't do it.

We could also solve this by allowing shared instances...

EmperorTippy · Jun 20, 2005, 04:39 AM // 04:39

This would be great. But make it so that both sides have to be a guild or at most 2 guilds per side so that it isnt like a PUG were half the people dont know how to call targets.

DrSLUGFly · Jun 20, 2005, 04:51 AM // 04:51

I agree, this should be accessable through guild hall only, with a possibility for allied guilds (that would be cool) and/or invited non-guild members (there must be -if not already- an invite option for guild halls)

Perhaps this could be something we would hope to see in Cantha. Maybe one of the end game missions in Cantha could involve a team of 32 attacking the "boss team" or something similar... rock on!!! I'm not even through the game storyline yet but I can't wait to get to Cantha.

theclam · Jun 20, 2005, 06:17 AM // 06:17

Just because WoW has it, doesn't make it automatically bad. This is a good idea.

One upside and downside of this is that we'd have a large range of PvP modes, from 4v4 to 32v32. It's hard to balance that out. Necros (soul reaping and always available corpses) and AoE be disproportionately strong in 32v32. Heal Area might actually become uber.

Also, one way of managing 32 person teams would be to take WoW's way of managing raids. In a 45 person raid, there are 9 parties of 5 people each. In addition to party chat, there is raid chat, which lets you talk to everyone in your raid group. You only see the healthbars of your immediate party members. Guild Wars could use a similiar system, breaking down a 32 person team into 4 teams of 8.

Red Locust · Jun 20, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

ahaha, my monk would have a heart attack if he saw 32 life bars moving up and down. Oh and heal party would be waaay overpowered, as would a number of other skills. This game is balanced for groups of 8, anything else and we'd start to see overpowered skills.

EmperorTippy · Jun 20, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Locust

ahaha, my monk would have a heart attack if he saw 32 life bars moving up and down. Oh and heal party would be waaay overpowered, as would a number of other skills. This game is balanced for groups of 8, anything else and we'd start to see overpowered skills.

Probabily tue but what you do is make it so that your skills only affect your battle group of 8 or 6 or however its divided and the main leaders skills only affect whichever group he selects. (Like the life bars if he clicks on one of them and uses heal party it would heal that group but not everyone on the map)

sysfailur · Jun 20, 2005, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padre

The reason there are only 8-person teams in PvP is that any higher and real strategy breaks down. Try to coordinate a 32 man team.... and you'll get nothing but chaos as soon as you run into the other team.

it would be interesting to watch, i suppose, but not all that fun to play.

You have obviously never played Star Wars Galaxies or any other large siege game.

We often had groups of 50-100 and coordinated all in one vent channel.

Now, RANDOM pvp would be much different. You'd have to be organized or most likely you'd get destroyed.

32 is nothing. Make it 64 vs 64.

Storm Shadow · Jun 20, 2005, 11:11 AM // 11:11

as somebody who really likes planetside i would really enjoy seeing battles like that in GW.

Crimson Eyes · Jun 20, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40

heres a suggestion

how about making more team colours available for just the WARS

you would have SUB TEAMS (teams within a team)
these will be: red, blue, cyan and yellow (primary colours + cyan)
aka Team A

the other team will consist of black, white, green and purple
aka Team B

where each of these SUB TEAMS teams wil have a leader and they will all have to work together to fight the opposing teams

it will work like this in the arena;

two subteams from a team will start off next to each other,
and on their opposite side will be two subteams from the opposite team

e.g. sub teams red + yellow start next to each other and opposite them on other side of arena will be sub teams black and white

these 4 subteams will battle it out on their Half of the arena while the other subteams battle it out on the other half.

and subteams can come accross and help their fellow subteams at any time.
last team remaining wins.
it will be similar to tombs but with teams.

OK but heres my twist on my own idea.
same thing, everyone starts with two subteams and these two teams are in automatic alliance
the war begins, you hav to work together with ur allied team and defeat the opposing allied teams which you will meet first (design arena to suit this method)
while this is taking place, the other 2 sets of teams are battling on the other side, you cannot enter their half of the arena until both battles on either side come to a conclusion
(this could be a variable tho , work in progress

)
and then, ok heres the twist;

once the battles on either sides have been settled, the gates in the middle of the arena open allowing the teams to fight each other but once the gates open, all alliances are broken and its a 4 way fight, you and the team u began an alliance with is now your enemy as is the remaining teams.
to avoid there being a stand off, there will be a 5 minute or so time limit,

victory conditions are as follows
the last remaining TEAMS score = (average health after gates opened in %) x damage dealt/10

e.g. Red team: average health of 70% x damage of 5000 /10 = 70 x 500 = 3500
Blue team: average health of 80% x damage of 4000/10 = 3200

therefore in this case, the RED team will win

and using this formula u determine who wins after 5 minutes. (maybe 10)
but i put in 5 mins to further encourage battle and to make stand offs less desirable.