Curse

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 25, 2005, 04:00 AM // 04:00

well that armor isnt supost to be "easy" to obtain in the first place...

as for the nerfing i still say Anet should keep things the way they are right now, they seem fine to me.. anyone who understands the meaning of the words "rare item" would agree...

Angryhob0z · Jul 25, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Alot of the posts i read (i got to page 5 and stopped because its really late and im tired of reading my screen) sympathize or explain the problem a friend of mine, and myself have.

The game was released on April 28th (my birthday) but i didnt find out about the game until about may 5th somewhere around there, and we didnt get around to buying it until about may 20th - 30th.
We both bought the game at the same time. We drove to Best Buy he got the collectors edition, i got the reg edition. we both popped it in, turned on skype and started playing.

we didnt get very far into the game until about june 5th. we ventured out of ascalon and into the shiverpeak mountains wondering what the future had in store for us. the next month of playing went by very very fast because we were still essentially noobs that had been rushed into the game. we started looking at forums, websites, made a guild, made other characters, we explored every aspect there was except for PvP, and farming. (i had never heard of farming until my second char and i just saw someone say oh i was dye farming and....i had no clue what they were talking about but i figured it had to have been a way to make money, seeing as how we had 1 char each in lions arch and puting our second chars through presearing we had less than 1 plat in our account)

now here it is that i have my first char on the last mission of the game, 2 other level 20 chars that were pretty much rushed through the game just for the experience of playing a different build (third char) and then a farming implement (second char, at the time it was just meant for playing a monk). then about 2 weeks ago we read the most amazing thing about gw, the solo UW smite monk build. we had read about farming before and tried it even to increase our plat but to no avail. mesmers arent good farmers, and neither are warriors unless you know where to do it, and how to do it. the smite monk build was a blessing to us. we had no real experience farming before so it took some getting used to.

now comes the kicker, we spent about 4 days building our smite monks only to find the UW has been nerfed to hell, 4 runs, and all we got were 3 purple items and 4 demonic remains. we thought this was going to be our ticket for some money to finally buy everything we would need for all our chars and maybe even buy A SINGLE SET of fissure armor.

My whole point behind my story, ( i seem to like making people take the long way, you will see if you read some of my other posts) my friend and i joined when everything was getting nerfed and we were forced to try and farm to make any money, the only real place to get it was nerfed to hell leaving us in a dark room with a flashlight and no batteries.

no, anet does not need to reinstate drops to what they were like when the game was released, yes anet needs to stop nerfing and increase rare drops to make them RARE drops not "ive played the game for 400 hours and ive gotten one black dye and a handful of golds", drops

/signed

Witchblade · Jul 25, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24

The more i farm, the more i think the only real prob is the ecto market

The only extremely expensive thing is that damn FoW armor set ..Ecto should be more common and prices will go down...
5k a piece ok..but i wont pay 12-15-20k
I dont have a problem paying 150k a sword but not crafting material...

Why is the ecto more rare than the shards..they should have the same drop rate since we need a precise amount of em and they are used in the same way. Reqs are 120/120 of those... so i dont get it...

The other thing that also should be changed is those stupid traders, their buying price should be like they were before the last update. No one will be dumb enough to sell 1300 gold an ecto to the trader if he can get 5-10k in a trade with someone.

edit: sry for bad english^^

Thanas · Jul 25, 2005, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

If excessive farming is practically useless (like it is now) than the reason they've soared is problably droknar runners or other sorts who're actually managing to make decent money, I try to farm my heart out and I can't even buy one ecto after a couple days of constant farming. And you say it's farmers raising the prices?

Also, since you're not the one making the decisions I'll ask that you quit acting like you're the final word in saying things like "excessive farming is not tolerated", as you're not the one making those decisions, are you? That's for the devs to decide and it's for those people that this thread was created. And obviously, since constant farming is about the only hope aside from running people from town to town for cash, to make money, I'd have to say that the 15k/fissure armor does, in fact, promote farming. Indirectly, maybe, but since they've decreased drops, I can hardly make a living for my new characters. This is obviously, reducing drop rates is in direct opposition to the whole "for the casual gamer" feeling this game is supposed to give off. Hell on my latest character I had to go do some farming just to be able to afford the droknar armor when I got there, I didn't even have half the money by the time I got there, not including prices for materials. Thankfully my guild was able to help me out material wise, or I'd still problably be trying to get the last few thousand gold.

There's a problem, as is evident by the number of people in this thread alone who've posted their thoughts.

I never made the final decision. However I think you will find the devs did. If you bothered to actually read my previous post and keep up to date on the updates. You will see the game does not promote excessive farming, since it is a form of exploit. However as I said farming within reason is OK. You can verify this by reading various interviews with Anet. Now the fact of the matter is, most famers do not farm within reason and this is why they experience reduced drops. However it is true that the drops have been reduced a little too much. However Anet are sorting this out. Unfortunately most farmers are incredibly impatient and have to have that 15K armor, but NOW NOW NOW! And it is for this reason they cannot wait for Anet to resolve farming issues. This thread is the very epitome of the farmer attitude. You can't wait, so you post a thread to complain over something which they are planing to fix but in the long term. Unfortunately they have many other issues which matter more, so just sit tight and wait, even though I know its hard!

With regards to you not being able to buy the droknar armour, I think you'll find its because you rushed the game, since this is only way in which you could possibly not have gathered enough gold and materials. I took it nice and slowly, did every quest, helped a few people, explored all the maps, did all the missions etc etc. By doing this I gathered enough gold and to buy the armour and weapons I needed. I never once actively farmed and I've always had the money I needed.

Reducing the droprate is very much aimed at the casual game. It stops excessive farming, so these characters are able to get involved in the economy, which will hopefully heal itself.

And yes farmers are ruining the economy. Its simple! A price will stay high if people are willing to pay for it, if they demand it. If however the demand dissapears, then prices will fall. Farmers promote demand and keep prices high. By farming you heart out to try and buy these items you are keeping the prices high, since you are in effect saying I agree with these prices I will pay for them. Don't farm and supply increases to the point where the prices will drop. Its that simple.

Witchblade · Jul 25, 2005, 09:34 AM // 09:34

Farmers are ruining economy??

And how do you get money? /beg in outposts?

How do u get a nice weapon? Superior Runes unlocked?

Dont tell me you only get all those doing the missions ONLY

I get waaaaaaay more money and stuff doing half an hour of farming than doing ALL missions in game ^^ the average reward for a full mission with 8 ppl is 500gold 3-4 blue items a few non magical items and sometimes ONE purple.. doing the game 2 times i think i got 2 maybe rares in coop games

Thanas · Jul 25, 2005, 09:39 AM // 09:39

I just play the game and get enough money. Thats it! I salavge a lot of items and make gold from materials. Also I rarely pay for materials. And I explored everything I possibly could. Unlike most people who just do mission, mission, mission etc etc.

Witchblade · Jul 25, 2005, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Well u know..i m playing on Europe, means that if i want good/rare stuff.. i have to BUY it.. we don't have favor, so no huge drops for us

And i dont have problem with coop missions etc.. but drops and rewards of those rlly suck.. a 50 gold drop shared between 8 players makes me laugh, i wont call that "enough" money.

Thanas · Jul 25, 2005, 09:45 AM // 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

Well u know..i m playing on Europe, means that if i want good/rare stuff.. i have to BUY it.. we don't have favor, so no huge drops for u

And i dont have problem with coop missions etc.. but drops and rewards of those rlly suck.. a 50 gold drop shared between 8 players makes me laugh, i wont call that "enough" money.

I play Europe too! Makes no difference to me?

Dame&Beast · Jul 25, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

/signed

Rangers need money too

hahman14 · Jul 25, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

I just finished PvE about 4 days ago. I never actively farmed although maybe I might've needed an extra 200gp or something. My current balance for my one character is roughly 40K with full black Droknar's armor and.........the Fissure boots that are in storage until I get the entire thing. Yes, this is not a lot of money to many, but during the whole PvE i have gotten about 10-15 rares(gold). The Fissure armor is supposed to take a long time which is why I'm being so patient about it. Now the part of the players ruining the economy themselves is completely true on my part. Don't blame it on the NPC's because it is not their fault that tons of idiots bought Ectoplasm for 10K thus screwing up the economy. Start selling expensive materials and such to the NPC's. Sure you won't get the 10K from an idiot but you will get 7K and make some change in the price for the future.

Iceciro · Jul 25, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Too bad people are too greedy to make an investment in the future.
Either fix farming or fix the NPC's, Anet, I don't care which, but the economy is in SHAMBLES.

Melkor of ZoSo · Jul 26, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

/Signed

I picked this game up about a month ago and didnt learn what farming was till a week ago or so. I've had 5 or 6 Rare items in my possesion since, and I've had two characters.

To ANet, it's just how good RPG players are... They find the quickest way to be the most powerful. Money is always power in RPGs (Aside from time spent earning XP), and it just takes away from the fun of the game to not give players good drops. By trying to "fix" the economy, you're all making more of a problem. ALL Merchants should have set prices for buying and selling. Keep Black dye at 5000, and dont let Supply/Demand affect it. I mean... it's just binary code... how can the supply of that run low?? Player trades should be only for these Rare drops. Seeing people trade for Rare Crafting materials is just stupid... I should be able to salvage Leather Squares from something and sell them to Merchants for 250g. I should be able to buy or sell iron for 15g. Now since Merchants can't get those Rare Drops to sell, that's where players can trade with eachother for as high as they want. It won't take away from the game experience if more people have Fissure Armor. It makes the game more fun to be more dominant; and you know what... They can always run thru Hell's Precipice if they want a challenge. Or they can play with a lower leveled character.

This is almost as frustrating as gas prices here in the states...

::EDIT::

I'd also like to say I think a system like Morrowind's would be wonderful. You can sell Merchants your Rare Drops for an immense amount of money, and those Merchants still keep them in thier inventory. The highest valued thing I've ever held onto was valued at 250g, and I got 10k for it. If ANet would just modify the values of everything to make them what they would be, we woudlnt even have the problem we have. If I wanted to sell a Daedric Dia-Katana to a merchant in Morrowind who actualy had the 120k, I could sell it for that amount of money(Give or take some for the Mercantile level). They wouldn't give me 500g. The reason that ANet has all these problems with people trading among themselves for loads of money is because the traders give us next to nothing. Give us fair traders, or your economy will continue to go downhill.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 26, 2005, 02:12 AM // 02:12

There's a general misconception that farming as a whole disrupts economy. It is not farming per se that artificially inflates prices, but those that do it for profit - either by in-game gold, or real world money. If I had the time to do any serious farming, it would be to try and collect those rare and high value items I want for my characters, without having to rely on player trades for them. By setting up the system to allow people to get the items they want either by normal gameplay or by what Anet calls "item hunting" (i.e. farming), then the prices would drop because more people would be finding the items they desire by exploring the game world instead of trying to gather up enough gold to pay the inflated amounts.

I want to thank Gaile for addressing this issue. I look forward to seeing the changes implented that support the following quote from the update page on the website:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anet

Update – Wednesday, June 8
We know that some players currently engage in repetitive farming activities for the primary purpose of unlocking skills and items for PvP. Rather than preserving the effectiveness of farming for this purpose, it is our intention to address the larger issue of the need for farming by assessing how players acquire and unlock items, runes, and skills, and then by taking steps to ensure that players can acquire and unlock these things through normal gameplay. We believe that the most effective way to play the game should also be the most fun way to play the game. You can expect to see the first meaningful changes towards this goal next week.

To reiterate, I don't expect (as a casual player) to be able to obtain things such as fissure armor on a first complete run of the game. I do feel, however, that typical item drops need to reflect this support of the casual player so that we, too, may feel rewarded for our efforts the farther along we progress in the game. I see GW heading in the right direction, and look forward to the continuing dedication of the Anet crew to making this game one of the top RPGs in its class. There have been so few PC games in the last several years that have captivated my attention and re-invigorated my excitement as GW recently has. I expect that with further tweaks and additions down the road, my excitement will only grow, and GW will go down as one of the best RPGs in gaming history.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Imp · Jul 26, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

/signed

i mean... just look at puss in boots.

pwwwaeese unnerf ='(

Witchblade · Jul 26, 2005, 06:15 AM // 06:15

now that's the cute way to ask

This one should be the "hey man cmon give us stuff back, cmon cmon" .. trying the boring technique

/i m on my way out

PieXags · Jul 26, 2005, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

I never made the final decision. However I think you will find the devs did. If you bothered to actually read my previous post and keep up to date on the updates. You will see the game does not promote excessive farming, since it is a form of exploit. However as I said farming within reason is OK. You can verify this by reading various interviews with Anet. Now the fact of the matter is, most famers do not farm within reason and this is why they experience reduced drops. However it is true that the drops have been reduced a little too much. However Anet are sorting this out. Unfortunately most farmers are incredibly impatient and have to have that 15K armor, but NOW NOW NOW! And it is for this reason they cannot wait for Anet to resolve farming issues. This thread is the very epitome of the farmer attitude. You can't wait, so you post a thread to complain over something which they are planing to fix but in the long term. Unfortunately they have many other issues which matter more, so just sit tight and wait, even though I know its hard!

With regards to you not being able to buy the droknar armour, I think you'll find its because you rushed the game, since this is only way in which you could possibly not have gathered enough gold and materials. I took it nice and slowly, did every quest, helped a few people, explored all the maps, did all the missions etc etc. By doing this I gathered enough gold and to buy the armour and weapons I needed. I never once actively farmed and I've always had the money I needed.

Reducing the droprate is very much aimed at the casual game. It stops excessive farming, so these characters are able to get involved in the economy, which will hopefully heal itself.

And yes farmers are ruining the economy. Its simple! A price will stay high if people are willing to pay for it, if they demand it. If however the demand dissapears, then prices will fall. Farmers promote demand and keep prices high. By farming you heart out to try and buy these items you are keeping the prices high, since you are in effect saying I agree with these prices I will pay for them. Don't farm and supply increases to the point where the prices will drop. Its that simple.

Anything becomes simple when you ignore every existing counter-point to your opinions mate, even when they've already been laid out for you multiple times.

Memnon's Mentor · Jul 26, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

NOT signed

Most people here want their 15k-armour in about 2 days and when they have it the fissure armour in about approx. 1 week. Either work hard for it or don't buy it. There is no real performance effect/change to buy any armour > Droknar. I started a experimental W/E some 2,5 weeks ago and had 14k when reaching at Yak's Bend, came out of pre-searing with 2,5k. If there's anything that needs to be "fixed" it is your attitude. There are enough quite good collector weapons available (some artefact is even supposed to be the best in the game) and the Droknar armour serves you well until the end of the game. Can't afford it at the moment, don't desire it. Learn to be patient. There are far more important things in this game than "godly" golden weapons and uber-shiny armours like teamplay for instance, fairness and above all behaviour and respect. I've seen quite a few "elites" running away in Hell's principle because of the shame their "mighty" elite armour would be exposed as not better than usual ones, while their health was only at 30%. 15k-armour does not make you better. I mostly give away all my purple and "weaker" golden max_dmg weapons to friendly "newbs" in "pre-Kryta" (whom I helped out from Borlis to Kryta) and I've remet some of them later at ELC (by surprise), still with the standard ascension armour (Droknar), yet playing superbly and not caring about 15k and "above". That's what I call dedication

Satire Elexus · Jul 26, 2005, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memnon's Mentor

NOT signed

Most people here want their 15k-armour in about 2 days and when they have it the fissure armour in about approx. 1 week. Either work hard for it or don't buy it. There is no real performance effect/change to buy any armour > Droknar. I started a experimental W/E some 2,5 weeks ago and had 14k when reaching at Yak's Bend, came out of pre-searing with 2,5k. If there's anything that needs to be "fixed" it is your attitude. There are enough quite good collector weapons available (some artefact is even supposed to be the best in the game) and the Droknar armour serves you well until the end of the game. Can't afford it at the moment, don't desire it. Learn to be patient. There are far more important things in this game than "godly" golden weapons and uber-shiny armours like teamplay for instance, fairness and above all behaviour and respect. I've seen quite a few "elites" running away in Hell's principle because of the shame their "mighty" elite armour would be exposed as not better than usual ones, while their health was only at 30%. 15k-armour does not make you better. I mostly give away all my purple and "weaker" golden max_dmg weapons to friendly "newbs" in "pre-Kryta" (whom I helped out from Borlis to Kryta) and I've remet some of them later at ELC (by surprise), still with the standard ascension armour (Droknar), yet playing superbly and not caring about 15k and "above". That's what I call dedication

I've been playing GW's now for about 2 months nearly. I've well and trully finnished the game and been to UW and FoW a good amount of times. My gold is 13k. I dont agree with you that my attitude is bad. I think I've been playing the game long enough to have some kind of a reward. And to me, that is having nice shiny expensive armour. Mainly because I have nothing else to do in the game and I want something to aim for. But it's just not working. I created a new character about 4 days ago. I spent two days in pre-searing and did every quest I could. I came out with about 500g not 2.5k like you say you did. I dont think people want to have money straight away like you mentioned, but after the game has been finnished and untill the new missions come out, the players want something to do and aim for. A goal call it. But we CAN'T.

Melkor of ZoSo · Jul 26, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Maybe ANet should put some kind of thing in where :

If player has x amount of Gold, number of rare drops decreases to x number of times

...or something like that. I mean... enough is enough sometimes yeah... I dont know what anyone would do with 500k... the most I've EVER had was 14k, and I felt pretty rich. Guess that's because I started playing in Post-Nerfing Ascalon. I'm a level 18 who JUST entered the Crystal desert, and i've got 3k to my name. I've got full Gladiator Armor from Yak's bend, a mx dmg axe, and a max armor shield. All of which arent even that good. Why can I step outside and kill 3 level 20's and only get a Bleached Carapice? If I were a lvl 20 with 500k sitting in storage doing that, I could see why ANet wouldnt want me to do it, and I'm actualy OK with that. But some kind of detection impliment should be used.

Memnon's Mentor · Jul 26, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

What if the "wealthy" man gives his money "away" to friends to store it? What if whole guilds only specialize themselves in hording gold? I guess there's nothing we can do about it, just to be be clear about oneself. Do I really need to pay 200k for an axe which is slightly better than my current golden max_dmg one with 13% DMG >50% life (req.8) I payed 18k for? I guess the Aatxe will laugh their asses off, because the gain won't matter in the end but the tactics/skills setup.