Curse

B3H · Jul 23, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

I honestly havent ran into any nerfing. Sometimes you get nice drops sometimes you dont. I just came back from a farming run with a friend and myself and we picked up a total of 4 purple items and 3 gold items..

panfist · Jul 23, 2005, 06:03 AM // 06:03

I know I said I was done with this thread, but I really can't resist, I apologize in advance...

I distinctly remember reading in an interview or preview or whatever, perhaps some of you can help me find the citation (or perhaps not since you're all crying nerf), somebody from ANet commenting on the loot system. He said something to the effect of: casual players will be able to get items that are very effective, and I think in his exact words, "but when something outstanding drops, it really will be really rare." It really will be really rare.

Oh, I found it:

http://www.guild-hall.net/ff9.php

quote--"Rare" really means rare in Guild Wars! You won't have an inventory filled with items with yellow text, and when such an item drops and you see that it's assigned to you, your heart does a little happy dance.

So finding 10 runes including a superior absorption on your first run is not what GW intended. Anet is clearly bringing the game back into line with their original vision. I've done a little happy dance a few times when a few yellow items have dropped for me, but I certainly don't consider myself a good happy-dancer...I haven't had much practice. And that's fine with me.

Krank · Jul 23, 2005, 06:16 AM // 06:16

/sign

I have been playing ALOT, and having droks armour as my highest joy, since it cost me nearly everything, isnt holding its splendor when i see lvl 4's walking around full plated. Now playing as much as i do (8+hours a day), The most money ive had total, was a little over 8k, How does this balance out, i have had one single gold drop, (in 200+ hours of play), And getting a purple is like finding jesus.
Unlucky no? Yes.
I would really like something fixed at least in the monsters drop rate. A little change for the good would make me one hell of a happy gamer.

/rant

ALvin[ButteR] · Jul 23, 2005, 09:52 AM // 09:52

/signed

I've been getting C--- the last couple times I've been doing runs

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 23, 2005, 11:56 AM // 11:56

From that same interview link in panfist's post above:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anet

Well, the first thing that comes to mind is "stuff!" I don't know about you, but part of my gamer personality profile includes the word "collector." For us collector types, what will keep us coming back to Guild Wars after we're maxed on levels is the hunt for the unique items or for that bow with just one more point in damage or the unusual rune for an armor upgrade.

So speaking about what would draw you to play post-Ascension there are several things, including: The acquisition of items, ....

Sorry for shouting, but THIS IS FARMING!!!! If item hunting is supposed to be part of the draw of coming back to the game and playing over and over again, then WTH have they nerfed the very reason for replaying this game? This is the exact kind of hypocricy Anet has been showing and I have been talking about. Notice that "acquisition of item" was first on their list of things to do after Ascension.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Da Cebuano · Jul 23, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

If this goes through, I will sign it till the sun dont shine!!!

/sign squared to the 500th power

quanzong · Jul 23, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Getting 10 runes in 1st run is wrong, it should take you several runs to get A rune. I'm glad ANET made unique drop harder to get, because its not hard for me I just do missions and everytime I do mission I get 1 or more purple or gold items, the only thing I dont like about ANET is, WHY you have purple item with no stats or anything on it?

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 23, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

Getting 10 runes in 1st run is wrong, it should take you several runs to get A rune. I'm glad ANET made unique drop harder to get, because its not hard for me I just do missions and everytime I do mission I get 1 or more purple or gold items, the only thing I dont like about ANET is, WHY you have purple item with no stats or anything on it?

I agree with you. I'm just trying to make the point that if they designed this game to include casual players, then the reward system should reflect that fact. Casual players paid the same amount for this game as everyone else - why should they be punished because they can't dedicate as much time as the hard-core group can?

Aside from that fact is the nerfs cut back on drops and item value the more you run an area - again going against the very replayablility of the game. If I run a mission 10 times, I should be accumulating more items with a better chance of getting higher value drops - not the opposite, which the nerfs have been doing. This seems to be an account wide issue, not just a character issue as I have run several different new low level characters through the areas right around Old Ascalon as an experiement and have been getting less and less each time - and this over the course of a couple of weeks, not one run right after another.

I'm from the old school CRPG's dungeon crawlers where you had to run through the game hundreds of times before you finally got every item. I'm not against that, but it seems Anet can't make up their minds one way or the other, as the quote from my previous post points out. In order to get the rare, high level items, a player must explore GW and run through quests and mission many times, which is what farming is all about. They state outright that item hunting is a huge part of the replayablility of this game, requiring what I just stated. Anet then nerfs the ability to do so.

In my mind that means they only want you to complete this game once, play PvP, buy the expansion pack, then rinse and repeat. That means I should be able to get every item by playing as they desire me to play. If they are going to eliminate my ability to continually re-explore an area to try to get those items they say I should, what I am supposed to do? Does this make sense to anyone, or am I way off base here?

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Igigi · Jul 23, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

/signed

i actually havent been doing anything but running the regular missions and leveling but i agree later on im sure i will need to farm at some point and making it stupid hard to do will only hurt the game

Grunge · Jul 23, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

/signed

I've been having a real trouble making any sort of money. I got a Major Rune of Vigor once, and that gave me about 6K, I kept it steady at about 6K, but now, I'm losing about 500 Gold each time I play (buying Salvage/ID kits). I can't even begin to make up for my loses, because all the traders are selling at high prices, and buying at low. I sold 10 Bolts of Cloth for 30 Gold, and then went to check the price to buy them. It was at least 200 Gold. I'm sorry Anet, but nerfing ALL the drops has killed the economy.

panfist · Jul 23, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

You know, no one is forcing you to play this game. Just because you bought it doesn't mean you're obligated to stick with it.

I really hate to paint this bleak picture...but you already gave ANet your money, they probably wouldn't mind 1 bit if you left and eased the load on their servers. Not that they're trying to get you to leave, or anything like that, but they're catering to a bigger picture, and if that means that you won't be able to get your fissure armor or a 5/1 vampiric string, too bad.

PieXags · Jul 23, 2005, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Their "bigger" picture isn't affected at all by giving a reasonable amount of drops back, you realize.

And you're right, we're not being forced to play the game. But some of us enjoy it, and as part of the community, if we'd like something changed or have a suggestion it's our job to bring it to the attention of the devs if possible. So...yeah, that's what we're doing.

Nobody's forcing us to leave, kinda like nobody's forcing you to click on this thread.

Flame · Jul 23, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I was never big on farming. My original stance was that ArenaNet doesn't want people to farm, so they should make it as hard as possible. But they did more than that. I don't farm past Underworld or Fissure, which I only rarely do now, because there is no point. In a few weeks of going to the Underworld with trapping parties, I have found one 14-26 Storm Bow and some Glittering Dust. I want to find something, anything, that makes me say "Alright!" I'm stuck doing something I hate to make money; Running people. It's the only way to make decent money, and it's not even that much unless you can run to Droknar's Forge with full parties all the time.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 23, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by panfist

You know, no one is forcing you to play this game. Just because you bought it doesn't mean you're obligated to stick with it.

I really hate to paint this bleak picture...but you already gave ANet your money, they probably wouldn't mind 1 bit if you left and eased the load on their servers. Not that they're trying to get you to leave, or anything like that, but they're catering to a bigger picture, and if that means that you won't be able to get your fissure armor or a 5/1 vampiric string, too bad.

If we leave, then who's going to buy the expansion packs? If Anet didn't have any concerns about getting our money, they wouldn't have bothered with any patches or updates at all. Getting us to buy the expansion packs is the only way they will continue to stay in business. Keeping us interested in playing the game is the only way to get us to buy the expansion packs. THAT is the the bigger picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame

I was never big on farming. My original stance was that ArenaNet doesn't want people to farm, so they should make it as hard as possible.

I'm not a big farmer either, but if Anet doesn't want people to farm, why do they make item hunting a primary reason for replayability? Not everyone is interested in PvPing. I happen to like it, but there are many PvEers out there who don't. Where's the replayability factor for them if they can't hunt for those rare items? If any RPG is developed where all items created cannot be made readily available to all players other than through P2P trades, then the developers must realize that farming will be a necessary part of the game, and must incorporate that into their design, not nerf it.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Miss Innocent · Jul 23, 2005, 05:46 PM // 17:46

I'm just frustrated because I have no gold and can't find any way to get any decently. I never did any farming because I focused on PvP, but once I started seeing some of the cool armor I wanted some too... but I can't get any gold for it.

I still can't afford a Rune of Super Vigor; I might just have to make a PvP character and relegate all my PvE characters to just PvE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by panfist

You know, no one is forcing you to play this game. Just because you bought it doesn't mean you're obligated to stick with it.

I really hate to paint this bleak picture...but you already gave ANet your money, they probably wouldn't mind 1 bit if you left and eased the load on their servers. Not that they're trying to get you to leave, or anything like that, but they're catering to a bigger picture, and if that means that you won't be able to get your fissure armor or a 5/1 vampiric string, too bad.

The financial plan for supporting the servers requires that players be willing to buy expansions every 6 months to a year. Our continued support and word-of-mouth advertising is essential.

Besides, what kind of person doesn't care about the quality of their product? We could just up and leave with no reason, but that's absolutely not what the developers want.

Jigs · Jul 24, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultimate_Gaara

thats kinda the point of fissure armor, it takes forever to get.. thats what makes it fissure armor

so you are saying that the game is time based game?, " it takes forever to get.. thats what makes it fissure armor." player needs lots of globs of ecto that is being dropped by enemies killed like 1 is to 50 chance and millions of gold( most of the times you will buy ecto @ 10k). with the nerfing, to get hundreds of globs of ecto and millions of gold it'll take like forever to get fissure armor.

I know this is not really part of this thread:
ppl wants to have fissure armor and its getting harder and harder to get it. I think it would be cool if one could acquire the fissure armor by beating a certain enemy or mission just like in ascending, to ascend, kill your doppelganger. Now this is really skill based and not time based.

ramble, rambling.............whatever

Thanas · Jul 24, 2005, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ba Ne

You've said this at least twice now. That statement does not say that Anet's primary objective is skills. All that statement says is that their primary objectives when it comes to skill design are strategic depth and play balance.

"We are both surprised and pleased by this, because it means that we have achieved two of our primary objectives with skill design: deep, emergent strategic depth, and solid long-term play balance."

You're putting words in their mouth and not reading what they're actually saying.

Their primary objectives are strategic depth and play balance. From their statement, you see that the skill system embodies these objectives. It has added strategic depth and play balance. That is to say these objectives seem to have given rise to the skill system approach. Therefore IMHO, to not ignore the skill system, when making changes to gameplay is very dangerous, since this may lead to a breakdown of the original objectives. This to me infers that ensuring the well being of the skill system is a primary approach. Therefore one may say the skill system is now core to the game and probably has been for a fair while. I will retract the above statements if you can find a comment which says the following:

"We are both surprised and pleased by this, because it means that we have achieved two of our primary objectives with farming: deep, emergent strategic depth, and solid long-term play balance."

Thanas · Jul 24, 2005, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Nothing's guaranteed to "do it for us" mate, I called it a petition because it encourages some people to simplify their responses to "/signed" many times, I'd rather see a lot of /signed posts than a lot of " I agree because of this..." followed by many pages of arguments, right now we've only got...a couple pages of arguments, instead of the entire thread.

Also, Thanas, your "quote" doesn't help counter my point at all, just because the economy and drop rate isn't the primary objective of the game does NOT mean that farming is in opposition to the objectives, not by ANY means. This is proven by the fact that they took the time to put the fissure/15k armors in the game for people to try and get. Sure designing those armors wasn't their PRIMARY objectives, but they put them in there for those who want to get them anyway...and getting there, requires you either to exploit the population by becoming a droknar rusher, or to farm.

I was pointing out to you that excessive farming is not tolerated and that the farming issue (note I did not say excessive farming) will be resolved in time. Nothing more! With regards to the above comments I completely disagree. It is those who are impatient for 15K armour who must farm excessively. This does not mean that such armour in any way promotes excessive farming. I don't farm but I am looking to save for it. So no you are wrong. And also why is it, do you think, that ecto and obsidian prices have soared. Excessive farming perhaps.

PieXags · Jul 24, 2005, 02:06 AM // 02:06

If excessive farming is practically useless (like it is now) than the reason they've soared is problably droknar runners or other sorts who're actually managing to make decent money, I try to farm my heart out and I can't even buy one ecto after a couple days of constant farming. And you say it's farmers raising the prices?

Also, since you're not the one making the decisions I'll ask that you quit acting like you're the final word in saying things like "excessive farming is not tolerated", as you're not the one making those decisions, are you? That's for the devs to decide and it's for those people that this thread was created. And obviously, since constant farming is about the only hope aside from running people from town to town for cash, to make money, I'd have to say that the 15k/fissure armor does, in fact, promote farming. Indirectly, maybe, but since they've decreased drops, I can hardly make a living for my new characters. This is obviously, reducing drop rates is in direct opposition to the whole "for the casual gamer" feeling this game is supposed to give off. Hell on my latest character I had to go do some farming just to be able to afford the droknar armor when I got there, I didn't even have half the money by the time I got there, not including prices for materials. Thankfully my guild was able to help me out material wise, or I'd still problably be trying to get the last few thousand gold.

There's a problem, as is evident by the number of people in this thread alone who've posted their thoughts.

Fr3sH · Jul 24, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

/signed