Curse

Buoyancy · Jul 21, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerox

Seriously, if you want to play a game that really is based on skill, then you should be playing FPS games.

I really hate the fact that action gamers have tried to redefine the word "skill" to mean "hand-eye coordination, reflexes, and control speed". If that's what skill means, then I want little part of it in a RPG style game. Your tactical abilities are every bit as much about "skill" as your ability to micromanage clicks, which actually takes little thinking at all and is merely a matter of being young, training your muscle memory, and having hours a day to practice.

quanzong · Jul 21, 2005, 05:20 AM // 05:20

I think its good that they dont allow so much things to drop at once, because then money is worthless and game is not fun. Thing I hate is, when a stupid mob I kill doesnt drop ANYTHING. I WANT YOUR FRICKING HEART, oops I meant Fridged Heart. Excuse me.

However I see 9 gold items drop everytime I do mission where you defend King Jalishammer.
Also I make 4.5+K an hour, 3 items per chest = 150 gold = 2mins. I think they made it so that the more party MEMBERS you have the better +chance you have getting magical item (DIABLO2).
If you think its hard to make money on this game, go try EQ, your not making good money until you've played at least 3 months or 800+ hours.

quanzong · Jul 21, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buoyancy

I really hate the fact that action gamers have tried to redefine the word "skill" to mean "hand-eye coordination, reflexes, and control speed". If that's what skill means, then I want little part of it in a RPG style game. Your tactical abilities are every bit as much about "skill" as your ability to micromanage clicks, which actually takes little thinking at all and is merely a matter of being young, training your muscle memory, and having hours a day to practice.

RPGS dont require skill, just memory.
Skill games = 1st person shooter
you control movement and everything, its not chance,ex. I hit you 12 you hit me 13, you win.

EDIT: Sorry sorry but I read lil more at end, funny how this thread changed but I recomend IDSOFTWARE games for skills. Quake1, heehee

Zerox · Jul 21, 2005, 06:43 AM // 06:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_hands

Zerox, you haven't though about this much have you? The game only has 20 lvls, not 100. In addition to this, the best items are only slightly better than an above average item. There isn't a sword that does 100 more damage than everything else and there isn't a spell that kills everyone in a 100 mile radius.

This game is based on skill not how much money you have.

As someone already stated, a sword that gives an addition of max health can be sold for 100K but something that isn't perfect and gives a little less health sells for 10K. The difference is negligable but it does prove my point... because Gold was so widely available the price that perfect items sold was was totally out of sinc with the rest of the game.

Apparently you didn't get what I meant.

If the developers wanted this game to be truly skill based, not item/gold based, then why would they make some things harder to get? They would just give everyone the perfect sword, the perfect armor to balance everything out. One little rare mod can make all the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buoyancy

I really hate the fact that action gamers have tried to redefine the word "skill" to mean "hand-eye coordination, reflexes, and control speed". If that's what skill means, then I want little part of it in a RPG style game. Your tactical abilities are every bit as much about "skill" as your ability to micromanage clicks, which actually takes little thinking at all and is merely a matter of being young, training your muscle memory, and having hours a day to practice.

There is little skill to RPG, it just requires some thinking ahead of time and strategizing. Once you get the perfect strategy and the perfect armor/weapon, you basically win half the battle, the other half is who your opponent is.

While in FPS games, it's different. You have to be alert all the time, have fast reaction time and have to be able to have accuracy. If you have the perfect skill in a FPS game, then most people won't be able to defeat you. While in RPG games, any noob who thought up of a build on accident can defeat you.

panfist · Jul 21, 2005, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Umm...I don't see what the problem is. I've had this game for 3 weeks and I haven't really consciously been farming, and I have 60p in my stash. I don't know if that seems like a small amount to you guys, but it's respectable to me. At this rate, in a few months I could purchase perfect weapons and upgrades for characters in every class, and maybe a suit or two of 15k armor. I've also unlocked about a third of runes and about half of the weapon upgrades (albeit lower-end stats). What else in the game do you want to farm for?

panfist · Jul 21, 2005, 06:53 AM // 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zerox

There is little skill to RPG, it just requires some thinking ahead of time and strategizing. Once you get the perfect strategy and the perfect armor/weapon, you basically win half the battle, the other half is who your opponent is.

While in FPS games, it's different. You have to be alert all the time, have fast reaction time and have to be able to have accuracy. If you have the perfect skill in a FPS game, then most people won't be able to defeat you. While in RPG games, any noob who thought up of a build on accident can defeat you.

I don't know about you, but in my opinion there is plenty of skill involved in playing GW. I'm sure if you played a mirror match against players in a top ten guild, and you both knew the ins and outs of the build, they would own you for sure. In GW, the major skills involved aren't twitch and reflex, but communication, coordination, and tactics.

Ultimate_Gaara · Jul 21, 2005, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

RPGS dont require skill, just memory.
Skill games = 1st person shooter

Heh i sorry i couldnt help but laugh at that statment, FPS needing skill, thats funny, RTS = skill...

anyways as for drops, how much do people expect Anet to boost them by, i mean i have no problem making money... i dont know how much you guys expect, but i think 1-2K a day is pretty good, how much do you guys expect?

By the way i hope people who sign this arnt just doing it so they can farm and get fow armor in 2 days.. thats just sad

Zerox · Jul 21, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by panfist

Umm...I don't see what the problem is. I've had this game for 3 weeks and I haven't really consciously been farming, and I have 60p in my stash. I don't know if that seems like a small amount to you guys, but it's respectable to me. At this rate, in a few months I could purchase perfect weapons and upgrades for characters in every class, and maybe a suit or two of 15k armor. I've also unlocked about a third of runes and about half of the weapon upgrades (albeit lower-end stats). What else in the game do you want to farm for?

Fissure Armor, which costs over 1 million gold (1000K).

panfist · Jul 21, 2005, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Ahh, so you think the entire time you're farming you're not going to find a single ecto? You're going to have to buy all of it?

thestealthcow101 · Jul 21, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

/signed

I haven't gotten to parts where I have to farm to buy lots of stuff...no 15K armor where I am, but I know I'll get there soon. A couple of my friends say that from all the nerfing the economy has been ruined.

I'm not really sure what farming was like before it was nerfed...People tell me of good times. I was looking forward to this "10K in one hour" because frankly, I enjoy the idea of being able to go out and make 10K in one hour. When I got a black dye, that jumpstarted me from the hundreds range to the 7K range, but my money is slowly going away...and with the things I see being sold (100K for a bow...) I can only imagine trying to farm, and ending up with 1/10th of what I need by the end of my playing time.

Omega Complex · Jul 21, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feli

Yes, but you must tap 2 mountains in order to use this instant.

(btw, thats awesome

)

**Editing to avoid double posting**

I dont play the game 24/7, I dont have 60k in my stash because I didnt go farming when it was still profitable to farm. Where in this world can you still make good money? I was in the frozen forest with henchies and got a few near max staffs and around 1k in gold, this is in 1 hour and fighting an a$$ load of baddies. (the attribute point quest).

If you wanna tell me an effective way to make cash in normal game play, let me know.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 21, 2005, 02:56 PM // 14:56

It seems that many people forgot why Anet developed GW the way it did. This game was meant to be playable by the casual, part-time gamer, and the focus on strategy, skills, and attribute builds (SSA) was the reason for this. Anet nerfs farming because the basic concept does not agree with the reason this game was created. However, farming is a part of RPG culture (whether it be an on-line game or not - heck this entire concept of grinding/farming starts with the CRPG's from the 80's), and for Anet to try to put the kabosh on a part of the culure of RPG gaming is unrealistic and unfair. I don't farm, but don't disagree with the practice unless it is farming for profit. I am totally against selling game items for real world cash. However, I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to try to get every item that the devs have programmed into the game, which necessitates farming.

I'm a casual player, and have played GW since the final beta event. I don't farm, not only because I don't have the time to do it, but have no desire to do it. I have completed the game a few times, and have noticed a dramatic decrease in the number and value of drops since the nerf. Getting back to my original statement above, this seems to go against the idea of this game being for the casual player. While using SSA is a large part of being competative in both PvE and PvP, having decent armor and weapon sets is as well.

As an experiement, I went to Ascalon Arena with a Level 10 W/R build similar to one that I have had success with as a PvP only character with the only difference of using the most basic armor and weapon sets. I generally got slaughtered each time I went because I had no melee capabities at all. While using my successful skill sets helped keep me alive while in ranged combat, I had no hope in close quarters - and this only in the first PvP arena a player encounters in the game, oftentimes against lower level characters. So while Borak Bloodbane's post may be true in essence, and SSA the primary focus of GW, there's no denying the fact that a good set of items also goes a long way into being competative in this game.

Besides that point, part of my enjoyment from playing the game as intended is being able to get high value stuff. With the nerfs, it's harder for me as a casual player to get good drops, leaving me with the only alternative - buying the items I want to test with my characters. I would never buy from Players, only NPC's, but even so, with the prices they way they are, a lot of the stuff I want to have is hardly affordable. And before someone says - "you don't need that stuff," then why is it in the game? If we don't need a gold Max Damage Hammer of Superstrong Versilimtude, then why have the item in the game, and why should I not be able to try to get it, same as everyone else, just because I am a part-time player?

If Anet intended this game for the casusal player, then the drops and item availability should be created in such a way for the casual player to be able to hold in hand at some point in the game each and every single item that they have programmed into the code. Whether that be from increasing drops, or making items available to purchase at a fixed rate from NPC's is up to them. Personally, I think a combo of both is the way to go. That way the culture of farming has it's draw to the game, and the rest of us have ours.

If Anet and the rest of the community is so against farming for profit, then make sure that the item availablity nixes the profit margin in the bud. If everyone is guaranteed to get that max damage hammer at some point in the game by completing quests and missions, there will be no reason to buy it for 100+k from a farmer in game or for $100 on eBay. Simply nerfing drops is not the way to go, IMHO.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

panfist · Jul 21, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

You guys need to re-evaluate the way you are playing this game, because as the game is now you don't have to farm to get what you need. 1.5k armor is easy to get and cheap. Weapons with the best stats are available from NPC collectors. You can walk into a town near the collector and buy a full set of frigid hearts or avicara scalps or whathaveyou to trade to the collector for 2p TOPS. In fact, if you pay 2p, you're getting ripped. It's just -2p- for the best weapon.

Ahhhhh, so you're responding by telling me, "no, it's not the best, this dewd is selling a weapon that's 1% better for 100k and I'm too poor, wahhhh." Well, then go FARM for the gold! I thought you liked to farm? If you like farming so much, why are you upset that it takes longer? You get to satisfy your inner farming urge that much longer! I'll stick with the collector items, tyvm.

EDIT: Oh, on the topic of 15k armor, the price is going up, in my opinion, because of inflation. Instead of increasing farmability, if there were more useful gold sinks for rich players, they wouldn't be willing to shell out the exorbitant 12k per ecto, and it wouldn't cost 2 mil for a set of fissure armor.

thestealthcow101 · Jul 21, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Look, I'm not a farmer right now, but then again, I'm barely getting any money, seeing as how much things can cost.
When I first got to Lion's Arch, and saw all these items being sold, I thought to myself "No way will I be able to get that much". And even with smarter players on these forums selling the things I'm thinking the same thing.

But then I remebered my friend telling my how he could get 10K just from farming from an hour and half, I gained hope. Now I look at this thread, and it seems that in order to get the weapons I really want, the armor I really want, I'll have to spend weeks upon weeks of non-stop playing to scratch the surface of the amount I need to get.

edwinna elbert · Jul 21, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Do you really feel that you've earned something when you've spent say three hours earning 60k to buy that armour? Basically, people want to be able to exploit things to their advantage. The Droknar's armour is a status symbol, or at least it's supposed to be, it should say "I've worked my ass off earning this gold", but for many people it just says "I found a farming spot and exploited the fact that I could zone in and out of an area to make money quickly", or maybe even "I bought my gold of eBay".

What about the ascended armour? You can farm away and earn enough to buy all that ectoplasm and obsidian shards, then in one trip to the fissure, you can get your armour. Well done you. What have you achieved there? Nothing at all I think. As it's the same stats, it remains just a status symbol, but one that you certainly won't deserve.

I'm going to get that Obsidian armour; I have 31 pieces of ecto and 80 obsidian shards, and you know what? I've worked my ass of to get them. Being on the European servers is tough for the favour, so getting in to UW and Fissure needs to be done quickly and with a decent team. I've been to both places several dozen times and worked with teams to earn my rewards. I know it will take a long time to get there, but when I do I know I will have achieved something and be rewarded for my efforts.

This, in my opinion is what Arenanet were aiming for with this game. If everyone had gone the way of persevernece, then ascended and obsidian armour would actually mean something, but as it is it looks like the only one who's working for this stuff is me.

panfist · Jul 21, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by thestealthcow101

Look, I'm not a farmer right now, but then again, I'm barely getting any money, seeing as how much things can cost.
When I first got to Lion's Arch, and saw all these items being sold, I thought to myself "No way will I be able to get that much". And even with smarter players on these forums selling the things I'm thinking the same thing.

But then I remebered my friend telling my how he could get 10K just from farming from an hour and half, I gained hope. Now I look at this thread, and it seems that in order to get the weapons I really want, the armor I really want, I'll have to spend weeks upon weeks of non-stop playing to scratch the surface of the amount I need to get.

What weapons do you want that you can't afford???? Name them, or give me some stats, and I'll bet I can point you to a collector that will trade for it. If you can't afford to spend some time picking up 5 items for a collector or 2p tops to just buy it, you are doing something wrong.

Again, name a weapon. I dare you.

Ba Ne · Jul 21, 2005, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by panfist

Again, name a weapon. I dare you.

I want a 15% over 50% sword. Is there a collector for that? Where and what do they need?

(serious questions btw, not trying to be a smartass)

EDIT: I just looked over the Collector Location thread again and the only collector weapon with the 15% over 50% mod is the Ascalon Bow. If that's true can I borrow 150-250k to buy the sword I want?

(definately being a smartass, unless you have 250k to give me)

Algren Cole · Jul 21, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

not to be a smartass either...but I want a Vampiric Flatbow of Fortitude 4/-1 +whatever HP

Jigs · Jul 21, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by panfist

You guys need to re-evaluate the way you are playing this game, because as the game is now you don't have to farm to get what you need. 1.5k armor is easy to get and cheap. Weapons with the best stats are available from NPC collectors. You can walk into a town near the collector and buy a full set of frigid hearts or avicara scalps or whathaveyou to trade to the collector for 2p TOPS. In fact, if you pay 2p, you're getting ripped. It's just -2p- for the best weapon.

Ahhhhh, so you're responding by telling me, "no, it's not the best, this dewd is selling a weapon that's 1% better for 100k and I'm too poor, wahhhh." Well, then go FARM for the gold! I thought you liked to farm? If you like farming so much, why are you upset that it takes longer? You get to satisfy your inner farming urge that much longer! I'll stick with the collector items, tyvm.

EDIT: Oh, on the topic of 15k armor, the price is going up, in my opinion, because of inflation. Instead of increasing farmability, if there were more useful gold sinks for rich players, they wouldn't be willing to shell out the exorbitant 12k per ecto, and it wouldn't cost 2 mil for a set of fissure armor.

NPC... trading or selling best stats weapon??? I didn't see them selling vampiric hammer of fortitude(gold) or Fiery Dragon sword of fortitude or whatever. Mostly what they have are basic stat weapons. These super ultra whatever weapons that these guys are talking about do make a lot of difference in a fight.

I also keep on seeing responses here about the difference of the 15k armor against 1.5k. the difference is the price and little something in the appearance, other than that stats are the same. But some people want it and it's their choice. dont tell them what they should have and should not have.

*Farming is part of RPG. whether online or other game consoles*

Ander Deathblade · Jul 21, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

/signed