Curse

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 17, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

/signed

I'm not a farmer, and I don't agree with those who do it as a "profession." However, the economics of the game simply force players to farm in order to afford items of interest or need. How else is someone supposed to afford 6+k for black dye or a Superior Rune if they cannot get the loot or gold from drops?

Just today, I had to take a character into Old Ascalon a half dozen times just to get 3 fetid carapaces to drop to trade for the Elementalist Gloves from a collector. Nerfing loot drops will not stop farming - it will stop people from playing the game because it makes it harder and takes longer to build up the funds to afford a decent set of armor and weapons, let alone the luxury items to personalize a character with.

Making all items in the game affordable and available from NPC's is the only way to cut back on the farming, if Anet is so hell bent on doing so. There have been so many posts in this forum regarding the farming and economics of the game, Anet needs to stand up and pay attention. I love this game, and have not had this much enjoyment from playing a game since the original Wizardry series faded away. Unfortunately, my joy is fading with the reduction of loot drops. If Anet wants to keep my business (I have two accounts, bought one for my sister, and am considering buying at least one more if the current character limit is kept at 4 for the time being), they need to bring back the drops and take other measures to cut back on the farming.

To toot my own horn a bit, the following link leads to a post of my ideas on how to improve GW for the time being:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=28583

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Draithe Absinthian · Jul 17, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

/signed

=HT=Ingram · Jul 17, 2005, 09:19 PM // 21:19

sorry I love PvE the way it is now. I do not run people nor do I sell items for inflates amounts of gold. I rarely sell an item to anything but a NPC. When I want gold, I go get a Celestral Sigil and sell it to the NPC on the Cantha Islands and I have plenty for just about anything I would want. I never have over 100K in my character cause no one needs that much. I have Zero desire for what people call the 15k armor cause it adds ZERO benefit other then looking different. big deal.

I do not farm. I play the game as it is and enjoy it. And get plenty of drops Purple Gold, Max dmg and just less then max, and plenty of gold. Even with henchmen. The main reason you people are having trouble is cause you do not play the game you simply farm areas to extinction. so I just don't have any pity. Its your own faults. hoarding gold, Inflating items and such in game FORCED arenanet to do something about it. There was too much gold in the game and too many people exploiting this fact and making everyone else be forced to do this undesirable tactic to get ANYTHING in the game. Arenanet saw the problem and FIXED IT. AS the market changes so does the Traders prices. Runes are down to affordable levels now, and will stay that way. as are Most materials.
Dyes are still inflated cause of the farming in Kingdoms PreSearing. But that too will be corrected soon. With a dye trader in PreSearing hopefully. Not one to sell too, just to buy from... thus allowing the new people the ability to check the fair value of dyes before getting coned by dye farmers / scammers.

And the prices for weapon upgrades are ridiculous. But that too will soon be fixed if all goes as expected. Eventually everything in the game will be attainable at fair prices and as such no one will need to farm as you say for gold. they will be able to do anything they want just by playing the game as intended.

For now if you need 50K gold easily just win Hall of heroes and get a sigil. Sell it in Cantha to the Sigil trader NPC, and there you go, plenty of gold for your needs in PvE. easy as that. If you want to run people for whatever reason.. more power to you. I don't see the point of doing this for profit, but whatever blows your skirt up.

I have run guild members from Ascalon to Droknars, and from Ascalon to Sanctums Cay for the Oasis... I prefer to take them to Oasis as the desert is the best place to get FREE max armor... from collectors. Most of which is just outside a map point. I think the shoes/boots is the only one you have to go searching for. And normally the Collector Items are for sale in these areas for reasonable prices, so its pretty easy to get Max Armor CHEAP...

AS to PvP. Sure I play it some. But Primarily I play PvE. and 90% of the time I do it on my own. Why? Because not many people are trust worthy to take in a mission or quest without screwing you in some way. So I normally go with henchies, or Solo. On the rare occasion I do go with people, I go with my guild mates, or if I'm feeling like it I MAY do a random group (shir desperation normally). But its rare.

I'm so often disappointed in this I loose faith in the good players in the game. I have to admit I miss the Honesty that was part of the betas. Now its about what you can get away with, not what is better to do in the game. All anyone seems to want to do is play a mission for gold or scam you in some way... I am looking forward to getting back to beta status soon so I can drop the retail server for a while. I hope I am not alone in feeling this way.

=HT=Ingram.

Oh and fetid carapaces are Plentiful in early missions. Heck I got 8 from northern wall going solo just today cause I wanted to be sure of that. and if you can not even do Northern wall... then I just don't understand why your playing... I did the first 4 missions solo 1 run each, and ended up with 21 leather, 15 bones, 22 carapaces, 3 runes, 32 cloth, 4 fur, 12 shells, 52 Iron Ingots, 6 steel ingots, and almost 100 wood planks. The runes were 2 minors and 1 major. from purple Armor drops. I even got 3 gold weapons. Not max dmg of course, but Gold none the less... it took less then 2 hrs to get that. and I zeroed out my gold s oI would see how much I got from those missions.
after noloni I had almost 2k. just from drops. the 4 missions took about 20 - 30 mins each. so as you can see, there is PLENTY to be got for new players. I'm sure I could continue to do the missions solo till around Kryta areas. By then you absolutly must start taking henchmen or players with you... Maybe even around beacons actually... it depends on your class I would guess.

Jigs · Jul 17, 2005, 10:02 PM // 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

sorry I love PvE the way it is now. I do not run people nor do I sell items for inflates amounts of gold. I rarely sell an item to anything but a NPC. When I want gold, I go get a Celestral Sigil and sell it to the NPC on the Cantha Islands and I have plenty for just about anything I would want. I never have over 100K in my character cause no one needs that much. I have Zero desire for what people call the 15k armor cause it adds ZERO benefit other then looking different. big deal.

I do not farm. I play the game as it is and enjoy it. And get plenty of drops Purple Gold, Max dmg and just less then max, and plenty of gold. Even with henchmen. The main reason you people are having trouble is cause you do not play the game you simply farm areas to extinction. so I just don't have any pity. Its your own faults. hoarding gold, Inflating items and such in game FORCED arenanet to do something about it. There was too much gold in the game and too many people exploiting this fact and making everyone else be forced to do this undesirable tactic to get ANYTHING in the game. Arenanet saw the problem and FIXED IT. AS the market changes so does the Traders prices. Runes are down to affordable levels now, and will stay that way. as are Most materials.
Dyes are still inflated cause of the farming in Kingdoms PreSearing. But that too will be corrected soon. With a dye trader in PreSearing hopefully. Not one to sell too, just to buy from... thus allowing the new people the ability to check the fair value of dyes before getting coned by dye farmers / scammers.

And the prices for weapon upgrades are ridiculous. But that too will soon be fixed if all goes as expected. Eventually everything in the game will be attainable at fair prices and as such no one will need to farm as you say for gold. they will be able to do anything they want just by playing the game as intended.

For now if you need 50K gold easily just win Hall of heroes and get a sigil. Sell it in Cantha to the Sigil trader NPC, and there you go, plenty of gold for your needs in PvE. easy as that. If you want to run people for whatever reason.. more power to you. I don't see the point of doing this for profit, but whatever blows your skirt up.

I have run guild members from Ascalon to Droknars, and from Ascalon to Sanctums Cay for the Oasis... I prefer to take them to Oasis as the desert is the best place to get FREE max armor... from collectors. Most of which is just outside a map point. I think the shoes/boots is the only one you have to go searching for. And normally the Collector Items are for sale in these areas for reasonable prices, so its pretty easy to get Max Armor CHEAP...

AS to PvP. Sure I play it some. But Primarily I play PvE. and 90% of the time I do it on my own. Why? Because not many people are trust worthy to take in a mission or quest without screwing you in some way. So I normally go with henchies, or Solo. On the rare occasion I do go with people, I go with my guild mates, or if I'm feeling like it I MAY do a random group (shir desperation normally). But its rare.

I'm so often disappointed in this I loose faith in the good players in the game. I have to admit I miss the Honesty that was part of the betas. Now its about what you can get away with, not what is better to do in the game. All anyone seems to want to do is play a mission for gold or scam you in some way... I am looking forward to getting back to beta status soon so I can drop the retail server for a while. I hope I am not alone in feeling this way.

=HT=Ingram.

Oh and fetid carapaces are Plentiful in early missions. Heck I got 10 from northern wall going solo just today cause I wanted to be sure of that. and if you can not even do Northern wall... then I just don't understand why your playing...

everything seems to be working well w/ you, winning celestial sigil is an easy thing . The problem is that we're not all as good as you in playing for the HoH.

I have a guild but it is quite a new and most of the members are still in lower levels. I think I am the only one who plays for HoH in my whole guild and playing with other people is not easy. We are fighting guilded players who has full coordination in battle and in my team, well, all are strangers to each other, some even will left the group in the middle of the game. The most wins i have is 4 straight, but it needs 5 wins in a row to get to HoH. Instead of wasting time fighting in that arena, i go farming to help my fellow guildmatesin getting gold and items.

another thing, lower levels could not fight in HoH and cannot run people to places. with this nerfing, they are the ones who are totally affected. I am not speaking for myself but for my lower level guildmates. I see them online most of the time but with less progress in working in for their armor. I supply them with materials and money but what I have is not enough to help them all.

mthegreatone · Jul 17, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeno Demachilo

/Signed x 100000000

Arena net is ruining this game by nerfing spots..They need to just ban botters..Not pretty much ban us too...

/signed

i'd imagine that it's to hard to tell if it's someone actually playing or botting. in any case this nerfing is prbly due on the fault of the botters. at this point anything can happen. for all we know, A-net might bring it back...hopefully they will.

pagansaint · Jul 17, 2005, 10:25 PM // 22:25

/signed

Asheron's Call had people that would spot check people behaving suspiciously.

All it takes is running a proggy to get the damage output and input to the character stopped and someone to ask the person a couple questions to authenticate that its a person.

kinkikid · Jul 17, 2005, 10:47 PM // 22:47

/signed

FrauValis · Jul 17, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

/signed

Please listen Anet......stop punishing us for the actions of the bots and exploiters....we didn’t do anything wrong...they did...please find a way to ban them and bring our items back.

ownage of teh elite · Jul 17, 2005, 10:51 PM // 22:51

/signed

Newbies want a chance in life.

Stop making us get owned by noobs with 15k armour in ASCALON ARENA!

Being pwned with max dmg weapons and armour at level 1!!!!

SUCKS!!!!

Let us have a chance, and give us some MONEY.

PieXags · Jul 17, 2005, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Yeah, Ingram, sorry but you're missing the point by a lot. Our point is the only way to make money now is either to go live in the tombs and win some sigils or become a droknar rusher. And you say you never have more than 100k...no wonder you're not bitching. 100k is A LOT and can go a LONG LONG way in PvE. I mean hell, of course you don't care about farming, you're one of the rich people, you have a good source of income.

How would you like it if sigils only sold to the NPC for 2k? That's about the ratio of buy/sell with traders we have otherwise.

Young_Anakin · Jul 17, 2005, 11:59 PM // 23:59

/Signed

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 18, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram

Oh and fetid carapaces are Plentiful in early missions. Heck I got 8 from northern wall going solo just today cause I wanted to be sure of that. and if you can not even do Northern wall... then I just don't understand why your playing... I did the first 4 missions solo 1 run each, and ended up with 21 leather, 15 bones, 22 carapaces, 3 runes, 32 cloth, 4 fur, 12 shells, 52 Iron Ingots, 6 steel ingots, and almost 100 wood planks. The runes were 2 minors and 1 major. from purple Armor drops. I even got 3 gold weapons. Not max dmg of course, but Gold none the less... it took less then 2 hrs to get that. and I zeroed out my gold s oI would see how much I got from those missions.
after noloni I had almost 2k. just from drops. the 4 missions took about 20 - 30 mins each. so as you can see, there is PLENTY to be got for new players. I'm sure I could continue to do the missions solo till around Kryta areas. By then you absolutly must start taking henchmen or players with you... Maybe even around beacons actually... it depends on your class I would guess.

Oh, I don't doubt what you are saying, but you misunderstood my meaning (which I take the blame for, not having explained myself too well). Anet designed this game for the casual player, which I am forced to be with all my "real world" responsibilities. I feel that by nerfing drops and such for those of us (like yourself) who prefer solo or henchie PvE, as opposed to trying to find decent players to party with, takes away from the playing experience. I used my example because I had only 15 minutes or so to dedicate to gameplay today.

Whenever I put my time in to a game, I want to make sure I accomplish certain goals - I felt that gathering up 3 fetid carapaces with my new Ele build to pick up some better armor would fit in with my available time. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to accomplish my goal because half of the devourers didn't drop anything for each of the six tries I made, and it took that many times just to get 3 carapaces. Sure I could have run all the way up to the breach, but again, with limited time, I wasn't sure that it would have paid off. Certainly I picked up some other minor loot and gold within those tries, but I still came away disappointed that I wasn't able to accomplish my goal.

As I have stated in my idea thread (see link in my previous post), nerfing drop amounts aren't the way to go in an attempt to eliminate farming. Farming happens because people want to horde loot to sell to other players. If all this loot was available for a fixed reasonable price through NPC's, then most casual, dedicated players wouldn't feel the need to go to these horders, or continually run through a mission over and over hoping for some good drops.

I personally would never buy an item from any player in the game. I prefer to take my time playing GW as intended and will continue to do so. However, I just get the feeling from playing that the recent nerfs are not supportive of the "Casual Gamer" ideal that this game was supposed to be based on. I love the fact that strategy, skill set, and attribute distribution are the primary focus of playing this game, but in my experience thus far, some good weapons and armor are still a necessary part of the mix (anyone try the arenas with a basic armor/weapon set?), and loot drops are the essence of that, and of CRPGs since their inception for that matter.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Ba Ne · Jul 18, 2005, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Hey how about some of you farmers reply to our posts of farming as a group? They've been majorly ignored so far. Tell us why you should be aloud to farm solo rather then in a group AND claim it would be good for the economy or communtiy. If you just ignore us like this I'm certian Anet would be happy to ignore you in the same manner.

This is an easy one:

Solo: 100% of the profit : 100% time spent
2 players: 50% profit : 200% time to reach solo profits
3 players: 33% profit : 300% time
4 players: 25% profit : 400% time
etc, etc...

(give or take the randomness of it all of course)

The point is to maximize income in the minimum amount of time. No farmer looking to make a quick buck would farm in any other way than solo. It's counterproductive to add people to the group and when you do it becomes adventuring, not farming. Most likely this is why the group-farming threads are being ignored.

---

The economy: Say no one farmed. Ever. Someone comes across a max damage +15% > 50% health fellblade. This is the only one that's dropped on the server in a month. You'd pay through the nose for that. Your maxed out bank account couldn't afford it.

Add farmers. 15 of the fellblades are dropped on the server in a week. Now you'll pay significantly less for that sword than before which helps the economy with the lower prices. Perhaps still through the nose, but only from one nostril this time.

The problem with both of these scenarios, and the point of the thread, is that the means to obtain the funds to buy that sword, or find it yourself, have been greatly reduced from times past. With the current situation most couldn't afford that sword if 100 a day dropped on the server, plus there's less of them dropping. Hell, I'm a farmer and I can't afford that sword.

Players stay poor, item prices skyrocket. Lose lose situation. Increase the drops, players make some coin, item prices go down and everyone benefits.

---

The community: Bring back the drops and less people will farm. Less people farming means more people playing. More people playing means a better community.

Some people, like me, farm because they find enjoyment in it in any number of ways. Some players farm because they feel they have to. They can't afford armor or a rune or whatever it is they want (and sometimes need) with the current drop situation so they turn to farming. You'd better believe that those farming because they feel they have to would stop in an instant if they could make some decent coin doing quests and missions.

---

All of that ^ IMHO.

Charrbane · Jul 18, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiAnna

/signed

I've spent more than 30 hours on this game, and I've just gotten my lvl 14 W/Mo to Yak's Bend. I like a leisurely game, exploring every nook and cranny, making certain to do every quest along the way. I have salvaged/sold every scrap, and I now am the proud owner of a bank account totalling... are you ready?... 11K and change. Yep. That's it. There go my dreams of owning an axe better than 5-12 any time in the near future!

I've never seen a gold drop, and the purple drops I've seen were worth nothing beyond salvage either. I have a lousy weapon, no money to buy a better one, and apparently no chance to find a better one until I've finished the game and can work the "high level" areas? Which means that maybe my second character will have a decent weapon? Bah. If things don't start looking up, there won't be a second character. I'm enjoying the game so far, but as the mobs become stronger and stronger and my character doesn't, I envision hitting a plateau where frustration overcomes fun. That would be a shame.

/signed

This is my first time through the game and I've made it as far as Ventari's Refuge and walked all the way into The Falls and so far I've had only had 2 gold item drops, both of which were fire wands and I'm playing a warrior. If it wasn't for my brother giving me a gold sword id still be using the half-decent blue sword I got in Pockmark Flats. I find that just a bit of a drag. I don't want to have somebody give me a good gold sword... I want to find one FFS.

no_hands · Jul 18, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23

/Not signed.

Sorry guys but I think they're doing the right thing. Right now people sell objects for over 100K... some of these items are sold for more than what our inventory can hold yet the BEST armour in the game is 15K. Massive discrepency. If ANET keeps putting pressure on the accounts of players you will find items are sold for less than 100K each when we bid. Sure, it's harder to buy now but this wont be the case in a month or so.

In addition, I don't think it should be very easy to buy the "BEST" armour in the game, or find the "BEST" items. I look forward to having an item other people want due to luck and my own effort.

When/If I do decide to buy the best armour, it'll be piece by piece. There is something very wrong with somone being able to farm for a week and then buy every piece of the best armour as soon as they get to the forge.

Instead of complaining about the best armour in the game being all that was left to achieve, complain about supplying different challenges such as some further high level areas and bosses or anything else that will provide a challenge.

I think give the Economy a chance to settle and we may find that things even out.

SOT · Jul 18, 2005, 04:28 AM // 04:28

I do not understand the economic scares at all. I mean seriously. I have no super gold repository. I do not buy gold on the net. I do not have a large guild of rich badasses. I simply do the stuff in the game, and I am doing fine.

I think part of the problem is people are restless. Allow me to explain myself:

When you have a gold bow for your ranger that is as uber badass as you're likely to get, why is it that many times I see people with that, but wanting something else?

It's like they suddenly feel the need to have something different, so they salvage/sell that one and start hunting around for something else, but find they are short by a large margin.

Or people by dye all the time and then whine about not having the cash to upgrade their armor.

What the hell?

Stop SPENDING it, start SAVING it, then see how little this "economy" bullshit matters to you in the end.

Hanok Odbrook · Jul 18, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

I think part of the problem is people are restless. Allow me to explain myself:

When you have a gold bow for your ranger that is as uber badass as you're likely to get, why is it that many times I see people with that, but wanting something else?

It's like they suddenly feel the need to have something different, so they salvage/sell that one and start hunting around for something else, but find they are short by a large margin.

Or people by dye all the time and then whine about not having the cash to upgrade their armor.

I don't think this is the bulk of the people who want to bring back the amount of drops. I see the problem stemming from the fact that GW was a game designed for the casual player who doesn't dedicate 10+ hours a day to exploring the world, and the recent updates and nerfs seem to go against that principle as it is now harder for the casual player to compete against the hard-core group.

The great thing about GW is that strategy, skills, and attributes make up a major portion of character development and competitiveness. However, one still needs a sizable arsenal and decent armor set to be able to compete in the various PvP arenas during the game, and after completion, which is the point of them in the first place. The game is designed for us to run through the quests and missions, then compete in the arenas while awaiting the next chapter to come out.

As it is now, it's nearly impossible for a casual player to survive for long in arenas against players who start out with the top notch stuff practically right off the bat. Instead of limiting drops, Anet needs to put limits on what level characters need to be before they can enter a certain area of the game or use high quality items. That would eliminate much more of the problem (and the complaints like those we see coming from the Ascalon Arena) more so than nerfing the amount of drops we get while trying to play this game as originally intended.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

CKaz · Jul 18, 2005, 04:44 PM // 16:44

/signed

I've played about 300 hours now, 200 with my primary
I've gotten 3 golds, all worthless PoS items that are worse than a decent purple/lt blue

superior runes for the most part now are worthless or a joke
why does nothing drop even compare to my (already collected) collector stuff?

reqs are high, mods are stupid/dont make sense for the item/req, I've run through to Ring of Fire and have yet to get even many minors runes unlocked (which are in general >> majors and superiors same line), good mods to wpns, etc

Meanwhile GW allows players who pay runners to totally unbalance the game.

I'm a mo/me 6 playing in pvp Ascalon, our groups won 6 in a row from SMART PLAY. No uberness, ie I just have Corwens armor and all the minor runes, and the best from the skill pool up to that point.

We beat down the other 3 players and looks good for our 7th.
There is one W/MO 10 there with a name like 'I Dont Hack' or something.

Well the short of it is we cant kill them, hardly even touch them.
It's also relatively tough for him (female warr but I'm sure some dumb guy buttmunch) to kill us. We pour it on (I had smites too) but you only get 8 skill spots. How insane is it that we couldnt touch them in a lvl 10 arena? They had skill choices well beyond ours and of course the armor (people forget its not JUST the armor but the skills, regular and Elite, available as well).

So we lose.
We cant get decent drops In ArenaNets attempt to mass kill farming, meanwhile they allow, if not promote, this crazy type of imbalance.

I was enjoying the pvp up to that point, and finally had a group going places with - its tough to get one in random. And its all lost to a single player who paid for a run and likes their game very unbalanced. Good for them. Shame they wouldn't let us keep playing our game and having our fun. That put me right off it.

Back to the topic at hand though, I actually did more of the PvP because PvE is so dull - not much of a challenge, dont really need a lot of varied skills, and no drops doing anything with outside salvaging and selling when collector stuff is dont - and even there it takes up too much space for all the collector crap.

So try pvp, no drops but they're useless anyways, maybe eventually nab an unlock (tho they cost a LOT too). But again the goofy stuff. I'll go back to pvping with my 20, but was interested in having some fun with my lowbie characters as I dont plan to go nearly as much PvE with them. Looking to summer content and expansion I guess to give this game a shot in the arm.

velvetbunny · Jul 18, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

Yeah, Ingram, sorry but you're missing the point by a lot. Our point is the only way to make money now is either to go live in the tombs and win some sigils or become a droknar rusher. And you say you never have more than 100k...no wonder you're not bitching. 100k is A LOT and can go a LONG LONG way in PvE. I mean hell, of course you don't care about farming, you're one of the rich people, you have a good source of income.

How would you like it if sigils only sold to the NPC for 2k? That's about the ratio of buy/sell with traders we have otherwise.

Tombs and RUshing the only way to make money? Wow, I've done tombs maybe 3 times, and never made it to the HoH. And I think i rushed someone to Beetletun once for free. I also missed all the big farming spots like Riverside, Kryta drakes etc. before they got "nerfed" yet I have not had trouble making money. Yesterday i even managed to finish off my FIssure of Woe armor. There are plenty of ways to make money, and farming is still quite doable. Anyone who says otherwise is just to lazy to put in the time and effort required to gain something.

I will probably be asked why i bother to even reply to this thread if i am just being negative. I reply because i do NOT want them to make it even easier to obtain certain things, i want the accomplishments of 15k armor, fissure armor etc. to mean something still. Remember, the only really expensive things in this game are purely cosmetic, none of it is necessary.

stvt32 · Jul 18, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

/signed

All of my good spots are gone.