Curse

borkbork · Aug 03, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Here's my problem: Most of the missions are a breeze as long as your group knows the basics of pulling and staying back and not enough missions require careful planning of a group.

The only mission I still consider 'fun' is Thunderhead because of the end since its a little different from your standard mission. I even light the beacons just to make things a little more interesting for my group. I think I never had that much fun fighting off massive wave of giants and issuing commands quickly while under fire. I think I've beaten this mission 6/6 times in the past week to help guildies and other friends. It's a blast, and I want to see more 'seige missions.'

Unfortunately, after we fight off the initial wave, the mission just tapers off. One or two mobs just trickle in at a time and they're easily destroyed.

Alternative ways to beat a mission would be fun too. I got a group of rangers and warriors for Riverside, brought Alesia 'just for kicks' and we just ran through the entire mission. We would alternate dropping the scepter to throw off the mobs and that's fun too!

Here's my little suggestion:
1) Instead of mobs just running around and just casting random spells... I'd like to see mobs actually have certain strategies or 'builds.'

For example in FoW, there are mobs that cast lightning spells...
What I would like to see is mobs being silent for a couple seconds, and suddenly spiking a target (just like a regular air spike team.) We could always dumb down these mobs and have them wand the target so the prot monk on the team will know who to drop the prot spirit on... this would give a future PvPer prot monk some practice.

The only 'real' combo I saw from monsters was outside of Ventari's refuge, with mobs casting weaken and the thorn stalkers using stoning to knock down everyone. One of the uniques running around there used to have virulence, making things quite interesting and challenging.

2) Allow party members to see a person's skillset so we can comment and suggest changes. It's quite annoying when that supposed 'disrupting ranger' you asked for brought power shot, pin down, troll unguent over distracting shot since 'he wants to do more damage.'

3) Mobs that require disruption to beat.
Heal/tank/nuke still works too well unfortunately. The only mob I can think of that requires a tiny bit of disruption is Glint. There was some quest in Ironhorse Mines a long time ago with some juggernaught that required disruption.. but he got nerfed so bad you can just punch him to death. :\

Things like that could spice up PvE a little so a bigger focus on skills and team synergy in a group is required.

I'm just hoping future zones won't be a trudgefest of pull/kill/heal/ rinse repeat sort of deal.

knives · Aug 03, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Trying doing some UW/FoW, then tell me if its too easy.

borkbork · Aug 03, 2005, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Read my post. I typed something up about FoW. Those lightning mobs are so unsynched they're too easy to out heal and prot.

Fow:
Pull the shadow guys, nuke them. Done. Move to next group. Repeat.

Forgemaster quest - umm easier than Thunderhead?

In UW: Same process. There's just fewer mobs.

pyr0ma5ta · Aug 03, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

I agree. Fow and UW, the two "highest level" zones in the game, are basically a test of how well you can pull things without pulling other things. The skillsets of the monsters are disorganized at best, and they have little to no coordination. It's not hard to pull, and it's even easier to kill things after you have killed 23947293467924376 of them already anwyay. The level of difficulty in this game, on a scale of 1 to chess, rates about a 2.

Also, by the way, UW is not difficult. It's possible to run around and kill things there with less than 4 people. Don't talk about what you don't understand

Night Raven · Aug 03, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Well, if you have a good circle of friends who are vets and beaten the game X times i can understand.

But, making the new areas more challenging for experienced players might become too hard in the end for some less experienced/causal players.

Just my two cents.

BigTru · Aug 03, 2005, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I'm a casual gamer and I find this game waaay to easy. It's one thing to be friendly to casual gamers (good) but it's another thing to make the ENTIRE game a cakewalk.

Hell, every single Mario game to date is tougher than this.

borkbork · Aug 03, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

The first couple missions in Ascalon used to be much harder in beta... Anyone remember Rurik running like crazy and almost never giving you time to heal up? Now it seems like he was injected with Ritalin and he doesn't move around as much.

It's been so long, but there was also a snow mission that was taken out? It might actually have been Borlis Pass... or the difficulty was reduced so much that I can't recognize it anymore.

I guess it's a good idea they made the beginning missions easier to allow casual players to adjust, but this has gone too far.

Another suggestion is to add an OPTION for more in-game hints on how to complete a mission while in game. I see traces of it, especially at the end of the 1st mission that tells all players only one person has to make it to the end.

Without enough different challenges, 'casual' players won't improve. One of the issues I brought up is the heal/tank/nuke strategy, one step at a time, SHOULD NOT determine the 'difficulty' of a map. It just takes time. Killing one group of enemies pretty much guarantees you will be able to kill the next 100 similar groups provided you don't leave because of boredom.

An example of that is Snake's dance. Easy, but long and tiring to trudge through since all the mobs do pretty much the same thing. Although its an EA, I wish the mobs would do something else other than roll over dead after awhile.

What if the trolls decided to body block your group and let the ice golems start the ice spikes going? That would be pretty interesting to figure out a way to escape.

Again, I'd like to see mobs use some decent strategies, or different mission objectives instead of slaughtering one group at a time.

emil knight · Aug 03, 2005, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Ok guys... before you call this game easy... try going back and soloing them. You'll get through a bunch of the first ones that way... but eventually you'll get owned.

Sure you can say the missions are easy when you have all 6 professions in some form at your disposal and a good team weilding them, of course they will seem easy. Get yourself into an imbalanced team or with a bunch of people who don't seem to wield thier powers very well and it can go south very quickly.

pyr0ma5ta · Aug 03, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08

I also liked Thunderhead. The race at the end of the first mission is fun, why aren't there other timed missions? Aurora Glade is interesting, the race against the npc who runs around putting crystals is intriguing, but the AI is so poor that all 3 times I've done it (all of my chars have finished all missions, and 2 have over 800k xp), the computer never placed more than 1 crystal.

An interesting thing to implement would be to have a mission timer: complete the mission in 30 minutes, or you fail. Forces you to be smart AND fast. Now both 1-mob-at-a-time-slowplay and Leeroying will get everyone killed. Of course the time limit needs to be tight enough to be relevant, but this is just an idea to make missions more difficult.

Hate · Aug 03, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

You have to take in account of new players.

(not that I am one)

pyr0ma5ta · Aug 03, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Yes, the first missions should be easy, no question. We (including myself) were all noobs at one time. But 20 missions later, you shouldn't still be a noob. FOW and UW should not be the cakewalks that they are. Basically, I'm just asking for "advanced" zones to not be as totally brainless as they are.

Age · Aug 04, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Then how come players a complaining about the grind to aquire skills to unlock.This game is not true mmorpg.The thing is we are all noobs untill thr 3rd or 4th chapters come out as this is not a classic RPG type of game and I don't like staying up till 2 ro 3 am in morning on weeknight getting my rear kicked in desert.

Mavrik · Aug 04, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

ok well someone mentioned Rurik so I'll expand a little on that. I solo through Ruins of Surmia for drops every now and then, only "taking" the prince along for the ride. He's wonderful at rushing ahead drawing mobs of Charr or Devouer after him while I'm out of energy and just trying to keep up. Its tough and exciting. I'll wipe out all the charr at the end before dropping the bridge for him though cause he just runs for the end. And people hate a runner. Well the prince is a RUNNER!!!! Anyway... since I use hench mostly due to lack of quality groups to end up in when I just want to explore or get items to sell... the game is plenty hard as it is. I'm loving it and don't really want to see things get to much harder.

borkbork · Aug 04, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

We're starting to move off topic, but I would like to see this game require more strategy, instead of just heal/tank/nuke/yawn. Since you can just heal/tank/nuke pretty much all the way, the game becomes too easy.

Grinding for skill points is a different issue, please don't troll in here. We're talking about general PvE missions and tactics.

Another point I really want to talk about is disruption. In PvE, it's so pointless.. since there's almost nothing worth disrupting.

Also, how come all the mobs are single class? There should be some dual classers that attempt to use some synergy among different skills.

Red Sonya · Aug 04, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

I'm hoping the "expansion" is a plethora of harder zones and missions. If not I'm probably gone. I've got to have challenge and by the time I reach level 20 I would expect to be worried about dying. Just about everywhere I go now I solo or just take the 2 healers and just pummel everything, even when there are large groups gathered together. I make the almost perfect pulls an if I overpull I'm smart enough to "sprint" away and watch half of them go back while the group I wanted in the first place comes gayfully on towards me.

I did a complete "walk" from Druids Overlook in a huge westerly circle to Quarrel Falls, then down to Ventari's Refuge and then back southeast again to Maguuma and didn't die once and slaughtered everything in those zones. Where's all the hard zones?? I was shocked to see how easy it was in the way out west. I find the most fun and challenge outside of Droknar's and also the Sorrow Caves Quest and Lornars pass, now those suckers are challenging with just henchies. But, it's only a handful. After players reach 20 there should be just as huge of a world of challenge as the regular world and I know it will take time and hopefully the remaining expansions will always improve the game and challenge for level 20 characters.

I wish there were a way to make the game challenging with a henchie group as well as a player group. Henchies aren't as smart a players, although many times they are. lol There are way too many zones though that are soloable without anyone or any henchies. Even those that are suppose to be high level zones. Not talking about those newbieish level 10 to 15 zones. But, really I guess if I want more challenge I could play with HUMANS more, they make a lot of mistakes and biatch and gripe and complain, I think that's why I play with henchies most often. lol

Since this game is instanced though looks like they could do it like Diablo/2 where after you beat (lets say ascend and are level 20) everything gets harder the 2nd time around and when you ascend again it gets even harder, just like Diablo did when you killed him after each time through up to a HELL level of Difficulty, that's what I'd like to see in GW's PVE game.

And of course the loot gets phatter and has more stats and looks even kewler than that stuff out of UW. But, I guess casual players would whine cause they'd never get there and all the best loot people would want to buy would come out of these Nightmare and Hell levels of the game.

Age · Aug 04, 2005, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by borkbork

We're starting to move off topic, but I would like to see this game require more strategy, instead of just heal/tank/nuke/yawn. Since you can just heal/tank/nuke pretty much all the way, the game becomes too easy.

Grinding for skill points is a different issue, please don't troll in here. We're talking about general PvE missions and tactics.

Another point I really want to talk about is disruption. In PvE, it's so pointless.. since there's almost nothing worth disrupting.

Also, how come all the mobs are single class? There should be some dual classers that attempt to use some synergy among different skills.

May I ask have you been to the Crystal Desert yet or the South Shiverpaeks in your first post you haven't mentioned that.That is the tough part of the game especially for a caster who thinks they can down 3 Hydras or StoneElementals forget it.I have tough enough time getting my Monk through and this with real players you need a Warrior to run you to all the spots and no killing.In the SouthernPeaks it is much the same way although the henchies are better oh the Jungle yes it isn't that hard for level 16 or 17 to go through but the desert isn't as wel the south peaks.

aron searle · Aug 04, 2005, 10:46 AM // 10:46

ok so the main missions are easy, im sure most casual gamers would breeze through most of them, but they should stay that way for new players.

How about making the bonus missions 2x? as hard, as you dont NEED to do them.

Shamblemonkee · Aug 04, 2005, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Stone elementals - *cry*

Evil things.

Semiotic · Aug 04, 2005, 11:30 AM // 11:30

I'd have to agree with borkbork on this whole issue. PvE is very easy. I've only run the game through once, but I never had to try a mission more than once to complete it and now I've finished I'm wondering where the next challenge is going to come from...

Adding Timers to every mission would be a big help IMO, because then spending a lot of time pulling mobs and waiting to regen just wouldn't be practical. It would (as suggested earlier) add urgency to the game and make things more of a challenge. PvE is easy with unlimited time and the limited monster AI, but with a restriction in time even the dumb AI that most things have would be counterbalanced.

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Lost · Aug 04, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Adding a timer to each mission would cause impatient people to rush even more and ruin the missions even more often than they already do.