Curse

Night Daftshadow · Jun 23, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

If you think adding a monthly fee will decrease the amount of morons, my friend you are wrong. I have full faith that ANet will stay with its committment to keep Guild Wars free of monthly charge. If there will be a monthly fee, Guild Wars will be good as dead to me.

ANet has impressed me to be one of the few to break out of the cycle and do something new such as no monthly fee with a great MMO. As long Guild Wars remind free of monthy fee, I will buy every expansion that comes out.

Ren Falconhand · Jun 23, 2005, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Here is an Idea why dony you buy somthing from me( anything let say a book or even a game or even a sandwhich) I will charge you a small price for it and then charge you a fee every month for the right to use it.....

Sound stupid Well yes that is the point. Onnce you buy something you own it yes you OWN IT. You should not have to pay for it over and over and over a gain. As soon As everbody sees this Simple concept and wises up to the Fact that P2p IS A HUGE RIPE OFF!!!!!

Then maybe just maybe we can have better games out there. As for me I will NEVER Pay to Play a game I hve bougt in the first place. It is the same thing as Extortion anybody who is telling that P2P will solve anything is selling you a load of Crap and don't buy it. manny games have P2P and they are filled with Idiots and grivers <Cough> WOW EQ EQII and so on.....

If you have a problem with Idiots Join a Guild and police you own. Guild is the First word of the Game after all

Jaythen Tyradel · Jun 23, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Monthly Fee=Bad Idea
Credit Card (not charged but needed to play account)=Ok, but still wont make anything better

Short of stores refusing to sell games unless people pass and idiot/moron test, there will always be people who cause trouble and make the game un-fun for others.

Even if GW was a M rated game, there a kids who still get ahold of the game and play. So you would still have 9 year olds running around acting like idiots along with 30 year old idiots.

Like all Multiplayer games, you get the good with the bad. CS, UT, WOW, L2, EQ2 all have people who ruin the game thorugh terrible behavior or with attempts to cheat the game or other people.

Dreamsmith · Jun 23, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

BTW, if the idea was to get idiots out of the game, doesn't point #4 run counter to that idea?

Also, does this really belong in Sardelac Sanitarium? Game suggestions should be things we want and reasonably expect developers to consider, and they've already given a solid, emphatic "No, never." to this one. Not only is this idea not on the table, keeping it off the table is one of the accepted rock solid principles already in place at ArenaNet.

This has already been discussed previously, as well. It's a duplicate thread that should be merged with one of the existing monthly fee threads, or simply closed.

Alternately, it should be in Off-Topic & the Absurd. It qualifies on the latter score.

In any case, it's not a realistic game suggestion.

PieXags · Jun 23, 2005, 06:10 PM // 18:10

There will never be a monthly fee added to this game no matter how this thread goes, because there are no real benefits, and they've already stated, planned, and based their system on no monthly fee over at Anet.

Charging a monthly fee will by NO means make the idiots go down, I don't run into many assholes here in this game, but there've been many (old and not so old) RPGs that require a monthly fee and I see even more morons over there.

Keep in mind---in this world you don't have to be smart, polite, or any manner of kind in order to make money.

2) They already own the game, they've already the right to do what they want with it. You'd be surprised how many idiots out there have money, and a small fee won't stop them from abusing the system.

3) It's already a great online deal. You either like the game or you don't---people know about this game by all means. Keep in mind that those who could afford a monthly fee and want the game ALREADY HAVE IT, because they had the money for it easy. If it went to a monthly fee sure those people would still play it---but a large portion of the rest of the community would quit. And you'd still have the same idiot/decent player ratio.

4) The people that would judge a game before researching and/or knowing anything about it other than how much it costs are the sort of people I personally wouldn't want around anyway. I like to go to pre-searing ascalon every now and then and ask people when they got the game. I enjoy seeing all the people who said they just bought it today, and it reminds the that this game is not going downhill, just settling over for a bit while people flock over to BF2 or something. People need a break from games, any game will get boring after a while if you play it for so long.

I got burnt out on the game, so I went and took a long break, and was able to come back, all without having to worry about how much money I'd had in my subscription for this month.

Ancient · Jun 23, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Styx

Best way I see of approaching the problem is to give the player population more tools to find like-minded folks. Guilds and the friends list are a huge step in the right direction. (Getting access to friends of friends could be cool, setting up a trust network without the repurcussions that a direct feedback system would have.)

I wholeheartedly agree. There is a big void in GW regarding any type of matchmaking capabilities at all. Other than a players name and armor, there is nothing else to be known about them, no right-click menu, no medals or badges, no pass/fail rate, just another name. Free MUDs I played ten years ago had more options for finding and identifying another skilled player, be it titles, status-based affiliations, even NPCs that handled matchmaking players of similar status. I guess it's just the awkward level of mystery which I find so wasteful of my time when I'm trying to guess who will make a good teammate, so I tend to skip it altogether and wait for my friends and guildmates or I just take henchmen, because they are at least predictible.

People spamming LFG in local is the single most rediculous thing I've seen in GW and is a big reason why I think PUGs are so awful to put together and endure. I suppose most people don't even realize that the majority of skilled players, guild members, and rerunners have local chat turned off because it's more beneficial to have off, especially if you're trying to speak to your guild, using a VoIP program, or you have already adapted to the anti-PUG mindset which GW practically forced me into. The best advice anyone can offer a new player to GW is "Turn off the Local and Trade chat, use them sparingly when needed. Join an active guild that uses TS or Vent. Play exclusively with your guild and take henchmen when they aren't around. Ignore the rest of the people.", and I agree it is damn good advice if for no other reason than VoIP communication makes all the difference in the world, even in PvE, yet I doubt that piece of advice is at all what A.Net originally intended to be the mantra of GW. I'm sure not everyone has had this experience yet, but it certainly can't just be me and my guildies either. Every GW fansite forum is buzzing with talk of idiots, jerks, and griefers so our judgement on the matter isn't too far off. A search of the word idiot brings up 387 threads on this forum alone, so they must be a popular GW topic...

An LFG option with a optional comment box for all players to announce they are seeking a group, any info they would like to give about their build, and what missions/quests/runs they want to do would help to alleviate the madness in local chat. Tie that LFG data into a sortable menu available to party leaders as well as making it a town, outpost, or mission-global listing, i.e. I can see the LFG R/Me in district 5 of Frost Gate even though our team is in 4, and when I invite him/her(again with an optional comment box, so they know why I'm inviting them) he/she gets a Yes/No/Reply box with my name and comment in it and can decide whether they are interested or would like to reply through PM for more info. The message a person recieves could even reflect the existing size of the team and it's makeup in the party window to be as informative to the player as possible. If they accept, they would be directly ported to the district the team is in as a member of the team. A big part of the problem when you are trying to put together a PUG is that you can't view the *entire* pool of players currently LFG for that mission, only whoever is in the district which is only a fraction of the people and a fraction of the choices. There is as much luck involved in finding a good team as there is in what drops, which just feels wrong to me.

Another idea I would like to see is some type of rating system, similar to fame, but based on PvE performance. I don't like the idea of players rating other players for the obvious reason it would be abused or quite easily become inaccurate, but it would be great if you could tell the difference between a highly skilled and successful player from one who has a high rate of failure, etc. based on what they have done in the PvE aspect of GW. It should be account based, so you would know that the guy in presear who has a high rating knows his way around. The ratings could follow the existing number-based rating system used for guilds or could even be expanded as some sort of prefix and/or suffix to their names which players earn as they progress. Anything would be better than what we have to go on as it currently is...

As it is now, you're pretty much flying blind as a party leader building a team from the populace. Some people argue that it is more fair as is and that everyone has an equal chance of being invited, but in actuality everyone is being lumped together with the pile of idiots, jerks, or whatnots because of a small minority that truly are, yet we just can't tell who's who due to the lack of a reliable rating or other such system. The chance of inviting a whatnot by accident outweighs the plus side of possibly finding someone cool. You almost just have to guess who's going to be a better player based on their classes, level, name, and the armor they wear, which you can tell very little from, because GW doesn't offer any other method of profiling a player.

It's a rare occasion when players on a PUG will actually be willing to discuss a mission and it's goals beforehand, let alone trying to convince someone to equip a specific skill. It's always "Go go go...", and that usually leads to the common occurance of one or two people who're in a hurry ruining a mission for the rest of the team. Somthing like a rating being implimented will also add a reason to try not to fail and to have members who are also trying not to fail, something GW is badly missing, IMO. A reason not to attempt a 45 minute mission when you only have 30 minutes to play, thereby wasting everyone else's time. The lack of any permanent DP is something AN did handle well, and I commend them on that, but there are no consequences for somone being an asshat and/or failure prone, which is what I believe the OP as well as myself, would like to see less of or at least be able to determine for ourselves before we consider inviting someone along.

Case in point, I don't believe adding a p2p fee is even possible this far into the lifespan of GW, let alone the masses of players who already paid for a p2p-free game that such an addition would alienate. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of great ideas and QoL suggestions that have been offered up by the community that could have a much greater effect on the issues the OP hopes a p2p fee will solve, we just have to be patient to allow AN the time to evaluate what can and can't be done to improve their baby and to implement what they think is best. Most importantly, the ideas have to be heard before they can even be considered. I *do* believe their ultimate goal is to improve GW to make it as enjoyable as possible for as many people as possible. Aside from that, who knows what long term goals AN has for GW...

Their decisions may not please you or I, but we are just a tiny part of the market they are trying to influence, so I expect that not everything they do will include things you or I want. Make no mistakes though, there is plenty left for them to improve upon, especially in the options of the social aspect of GW, something I think everyone can agree is lacking. I myself was sure that long before any economy issues would be tackled, improvements would be made to the one area that was spoken poorly of in almost every review of GW I read, the mind-numbingly random way parties are formed in a game where team composition is of key importance. I was sorely wrong on that one, but I do still hope they get around to it eventually.

Rhombus · Jun 23, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwh6913

the day they start charging, I will leave GW forever

Then you will probably never leave GW, unless you want to.

unclearconcept · Jun 23, 2005, 07:14 PM // 19:14

paying for the game would also (maybe) take the fun out of it? i don't want to get home and worry that i'm not logging hours and wasting my money! i love just being able to log on and say "ahh, now this is a game!"

Heretics Fork · Jun 23, 2005, 09:27 PM // 21:27

The only reason I would really feel okay about paying the monthly fee is that it would be nice to see the GW realm grow with more areas and higher level caps. But I don't want it to turn into WoW or SWG. If I want to go play those types of games, I will go resubscribe to them.

I wouldn't be pissed, but I wouldn't be happy if a nominal fee came into play. I'm already paying enough for the webspace for the guild page and the TS servers.

Theus · Jun 23, 2005, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Wouldn't that bring up legal troubles..

Also I believe that paying to play a game is nothing but a load of farce covered up by "Server maintance"

WoW has a approximate 2 million accounts. each pays 15 a month.. thats 30 million dollars a MONTH.

A fail too see how a Videogame server requires 30 million dollars a month to keep running..

Shadow_Avenger · Jun 23, 2005, 11:44 PM // 23:44

not read it all, no point as.

A, it wont happen,
B, there will always be idiots, but due to the social areas being so cramped in GW they are easier to spot.
C, GW would fall flat on its arse if it charged, the PvE would not substain people long enough, and it also lacks the World detail of games like EQ2 and WoW.
(not tried WoW, but have EQ2 and the cities actually feel alive and the citizens change there reactions to you as you play the game, some even walk over and chat, there are lots more quest and the 'Grind is no where near as bad as people make out, before I left for GW, (yep no monthly attracted me) I have 1 lvl 25 and 1 lvl 23 character and that playing for the introductory month, they also patched shed loads of areas to make solo play and exploration viable, with group area dungeons littered around.)

Quote:

WoW has a approximate 2 million accounts. each pays 15 a month.. thats 30 million dollars a MONTH.

Quote:

A fail too see how a Videogame server requires 30 million dollars a month to keep running..

Simply put it doesn't, but it is an economic model, the game cost 2-3 mill to develop(sometimes more), they do pay for servers, staff, programmers to maintain and update.
Every game that is released is release with the aim of making a profit, some do some dont. In 2 years time WoW woill still be running , its server population will have droped to maybe 500,000 and it is at this point it will actually cover costs etc.
On the plus side the monies earned from said game actually go into creating bigger and better games which you will be playing in approx 2-3 years (average dev time for a game.)
Any business aims to invest upto 50% of so called profit back into the company, to cover for lull periods and futire growth / dev.
Rumour is that Blizzard are actually developing Diablo 3, although nothing has been confirmed, but they have been re employing coders that worked on the first games, so if not diablo 3 , a similar game is most definately on the cards. At a guess it will be Diable with GW instancing, but more advanced with improved character animations and graphics, in fact actually using DX 9 to its fullest. ( games that are released to day started 2-3 years ago and in most cases the game engine / graphics where determined at that point, Hence why GW doesn't have Lip sync)

crazy diamond · Jun 24, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Everyone complains about how big multiplayer RPG's have a monthly fee. Now we get a great multiplayer RPG game without a monthly fee, and people want to add one to it.

You must be one of those 'grass is always greener on the other side' types.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jun 24, 2005, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Thanks for the thoughtful and good replies all.
Weezer - bite me.
Dr. Slugfly - whats the name of your guild?

Talesin

Manjaro70124 · Jul 16, 2005, 06:50 AM // 06:50

I bought this game because it has no fee. Now come on no matter what charge or fee you still going to have morons also even worse stuck up rich ones. And if you want them to put up charges just say you just want to be charged because i am an average teen working just to pay for gas these days and other small things. Even for adults i mean look at the people who have kids just in my only 15 member guild i have one guy with a cut little girl he might not afford the cost because he is raising a child now. Also 15 dollars a month for a single game is more expensive then xbox live which is for all onlince multyplayer games which is only 60 dollars a year. 15 dollars a month is 3 times the amount i pay for an entire collection of video games for that console. Come on 180 dollars is fricken outrages. Especially on one game alone. I am going to start a poll on this just to see what others think.

emil knight · Jul 16, 2005, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

/dodges missiles and flaming objects

I know, I know! ANet said the game is "free" once you purchase it and will only charge for future expansions and such.

Here's why they should charge a modest monthly fee to play:

1.) It immediately removes 99.9% of the complete morons currently polluting the game. Don't even get me started; there's been enough threads on the average IQ of the atypical GW player, and its in the single digits.
(No, your normal or high IQ doesn't compensate for the other 99%)

Sorry, no it doesn't. I've play other monthly fee games and believe me... the IQ levels are no different. You get the same knids of morons, only these morons have money (sometimes more than enough to go on Ebay and buy things that you could try for months getting through regular play)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

2.) It adds positive reinforcement to naming policy and bannable offenses.
Who cares how they act once they've steamrolled through the game once with their Warrior/Monk already? This is the consensus I get from GW idiots everywhere. Add a monthly fee - something to lose - and they will be better behaved.

Again, no it doesn't. People are even MORE likely to do things against policy because they have the attitude "I'm paying for this game, I'm the customer, and the customer is ALWAYS RIGHT!" I can't count the number of times I've seen people do this, get banned, get unbanned and do the same stuff AGAIN. They simply believe because they are paying for it they can do whatever they please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

3.) It provides ANet with the operating capital to ramp up operations if desired.How many posts here are asking for more expansions?
Look, EQ2 charges $15.00 a month PLUS incidentals for what is by all accounts a broken, unbalanced, worthless slug of a game. They still have players in the 10's of thousands who just can't part with their cash quick enough.
If ANet charged even a modest $7.00 per month it would still be the online deal of the 21st century. If you can cough up $50 for the game, $7 is skipping one lunch at McDonalds - come on, its not unreasonable.

True, but considering the higher than normal box price, which will probably stay that high for a while longer than most other MMO's, they are still making a good amount of money. They produced a higher quality product, invited MANY people's input and have a very good following... word of mouth is a powerful thing and new people are buying the game everyday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

4.) A monthly fee adds a "legitimacy" to Guild Wars that non-players assume does not exist.
My dork friends are all still playing EQ2.
Why?
First of all, they spout "Guild Wars only has 20 levels - how could it possibly be any good." (I send screenshots and they tell me they are doctored lol...)
Secondly, their logic follows, "And they don't even charge a fee to play it, so we know it's not any good."

Charge a fee, and these players will suddenly raise their eyebrows and say collectively, "hmm...maybe I will check that out."
Simple human psychology 101.

In closing, flame at will if you must, but the possibility of ANet adding a modest monthly fee would actually improve the gaming community as well as provide them with the resources to do bigger and better things.

/dons firesuit

Talesin

Then those people have no vision, and we don't need them in GW. I have seen both sides, having been a Diablo II player before, switching to fee games and now back to this non-fee game. Since they announced expansions from the beginning, the "20 levels" argument is automatically negated.

Charging a fee would probably turn more people OFF the game than on it. You end up with ALOT more hard-core players instead having a more of a balance (although I do admit the newb ratio in this game is a bit high, but that could be because of the "newness factor" of the game.)

proffbeer · Jul 16, 2005, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Well now I didn't read all of the posts here but i have to say this.

If you really think charging a monthly free will solve a lot of problems, acutally if you think it will solve even 20% of the problems i highly suggest you go check out Star Wars Galaxies. There was bugs present in that game from the launch date till a year later. Bugs, i might add, that were complained about repetedly from the time they were discovered, maybe a week or 2, till they were fixed.

As for getting rid of 99.9% of the morons. LOL, ROFLOL, ROFLMAO. sorry dude, that wont get rid of em either, acutally, if anything, it might bring in more.

TaG Eledhel · Jul 16, 2005, 11:47 AM // 11:47

cant be arsed to read through to see if this comment has already been made, if it has then thats life for ya..simple fact..how can you charge a monthly fee for a game that has an end? yeah GW is a big online kinda mmorpg game but really more a single player game done with a few friends, it doesnt have th open ended ever expanding worlds like everquest or asherons call and to be anything like those games anet would have to open up th whole map to public gaming and not just the zonal town areas..not posible the game would have to be re coded from scratch and in reality it would completely ruin the balance of the game as it is. not only that who is gonna pay for a game with an ending. would you pay a monthly fee for battlefield 2 or counterstrike or any other online team game, because basically when u take away the single player missions (which just happen to be online) your left with a squad based shooter using swords, wands and magical implements and a very poor one at that with little variety in the batle options...End of rant

Fox Reeveheart · Jul 16, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Some of you people still dont realize that GW is basically the professional MMORPG for the poor man.

I am 20 years old and I still wouldnt be able to afford $10 a month, I have to hoard every cent I have, not to mention NOBODY actually really wants to pay for a game they ALREADY paid for..

I.E.: Ok i paid for (insert name here) MMORPG at $50, I pay 10 bucks each month, so by the next year I paid $170 just to play this game, from 120 in fees and the 50 to but the actual game.

I applaud Anet to trying something new, but if they start to administer a monthly fee, many.... no actually.... MANY MANY MANY players will become disillusioned and leave the game.

Do you want to pay $170 to play an MMORPG for a year? not me.

I'll deal with the whiners and such and just ignore them, but even I have to whine also on the farming and grinding o.o, but i'll keep that for another thread.

EternalTempest · Jul 16, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

I disagree, the reason being is that more people would leave if they started charging a monthly fee.

Since the game is so open you are going to have a lot of players (good and bad) come and go. Think of it this way, how many hours have you spent on a $50 game and then never gone back. I have personally got many many hours out of GW and still find it very fun to play. If I do stop, there is a good chance that when the 1st expasion comes out you will get a lot of returning players.

Also a lot of people rush out to play the "newest" thing. I can easily see a small hit of players stopping when Elder Scrolls Oblivion comes out (for those on the rpg side) but good chance they will come back latter.

Aniewiel · Jul 16, 2005, 01:54 PM // 13:54

I vowed long ago that, no matter HOW much I love a game, I will NEVER pay a monthly fee. Not only is it against my grain to "rent" a game (which is essentially what a monthly feel "allows" you to do), but it is elitist. Yes, I'd love the morons to leave but this is not the way to do it.

Many of these people will leave sooner rather than later. The hardcore complainers have the attention span of an nose hair so they won't last forever.

Besides, the expansions essentially add up to a monthly fee. Not everyone will want to or be able to afford to buy them. Divide your original $50 + $30 per expansion by the number of months you've been playing. The math has been done before so I won't belabor the point. The the POINT IS that it adds up.

Will I buy the expansions? Absolutely! Will I -ever- quit playing GW as long as it remains "free"? Never! Will I pay a monthly fee for this game or any other? NO!