Curse

Maltare · Aug 07, 2005, 09:40 AM // 09:40

This game was clearly(at least in my opinion) founded on the sole basis of creating a PvP environment unlike any other. Also most all posts I see that are relavent to game enhances are related to the PvE or non-PvP player interaction aspect of the game. I VERY strongly oppose any advances arenanet would make towards developing a more complex PvE atmosphere at the expense of PvP players.

The priest of Balthazar was an EXCELLENT addition to the game. Allowing someone like myself, an extremely busy guild leader who has little time for PvE, time to attain skills to aid my PvP gameplay while not forcing me to trudge through an already over elaborate, unexciting PvE world. However, with new updates and expansions on the horizon, my #1 concern is that such an environment will be brought down because there are enough PvE players speaking out, and little to no PvP players sticking up for what they already like and enjoy.

Expanding the PvE environment should be done in a way that will not give those who play PvE extensively any kind of advantage over those who prefer to play PvP as 90% of their gameplay experience with GuildWars. Runes, though not so much a danger anymore due to the priest of Balthazar, was the biggest example of a threat to the PvP system.

I play this game ONLY for the PvP experience. The PvE is lame at best, and there are countless games who walk all over it. Yes, I know, a lot of them are not free to play, but I just worry about the future of the game.

I'm not sure what I can do to try to make sure that the voice of the Pvp gamer is heard, and that we don't want the game to change significantly, but I guess for now all I can do is to let my voice be heard. I know there are others out there who feel the way I do as well. Let's give these PvE gamers hell if they ruin our game.(I say that last statement with some reserve, it's not so much a threat, as it is just my overall annoyance coming out at the fact that the only people who seem to complain about the game incesently are PvEers or hybrids.)

Anyway, I just hope that Arenanet doesn't ruin the game from the Pvpers point of view.

Note: Hybrids are not true Pvpers, they like to walk the line, and they're worse than PvE people cause they're willing to enhance both which in turn will often make it more difficult for the PvPers to keep up because they don't have the "leet gear".

Okay, that's my rant for the day.

Edit: I almost forgot. The time they take to advance PvE is time spent away from working to do things for the PvP environment. *cough* Ladder Decay *cough*

Shadow_Avenger · Aug 07, 2005, 09:50 AM // 09:50

So was Shadow Bane, but that wasn't instance based, and was a true MMORPG, the concept be hind GW is nothing new, they have just done it in a novel way, and not charge a monthly, mainly due to it not being a MMORGP, not having a Mass non instanced world that requires alot more server resources and maintance. The live streaming tech works because the game is instanced.
There are others who play the game just for PvP, which is good for a quick fix, but IMHO would be push to say it had alot of substance, if All I wanted was a quick PvP fix, I would play on the PvP servers for NWN, as they are also free.

PieXags · Aug 07, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Somewhere I believe Gaile posted that they don't focus on one, or the other, and that they don't try to make it a PvP game, or a PvE game. They try to make it a good game, and they try to please everyone no matter how small a "minority", they go with what people want and need so long as it's not...absurd.

I personally enjoy PvE much more, because PvP in this game to me, is too dull, small-scale, unmotivated, and generally pointless. Honestly who cares about 8vs8 GvG? Big deal. Why are they fighting again? To get higher in the "ranks"...? Oh, woo, big prize...text. It's rare that you actually find a sort of war/intense battle going on, it's all the same small, tiny builds fighting over and over in the same small areas. I honestly couldn't care less about most PvP, especially when our guild, even if we're more talented, could get taken out by some lame spirit spamming group or something. I honestly couldn't care less that 8 people are running up to my guild hall gates, big deal. Why do I care? What's the motivation to do these long, repetitive, small-scale battles?

There isn't any, for me at least.

Which is why I support PvE additions. While I don't believe they should get a PvP benefit over normal PvP players, I do, by all means think there should be more PvE content. The game was never said to be a PvP game with PvE on the side, and for about half the players here the game sure as hell doesn't play like that.

Also, as much as..."ladder decay" matters (actually it doesn't, in my opinion, I honestly couldn't care less who's in first on the ladder), they can't do everything at once. And they aren't going to just stop updating PvE, just because they can't be on PvP 24/7 doesn't mean they're ignoring it. Some people like PvE, some like PvP, some like both. They'll try to do what they can to please the people.

Forboding Angel · Aug 07, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maltare

This game was clearly(at least in my opinion) founded on the sole basis of creating a PvP environment unlike any other. Also most all posts I see that are relavent to game enhances are related to the PvE or non-PvP player interaction aspect of the game. I VERY strongly oppose any advances arenanet would make towards developing a more complex PvE atmosphere at the expense of PvP players.

The priest of Balthazar was an EXCELLENT addition to the game. Allowing someone like myself, an extremely busy guild leader who has little time for PvE, time to attain skills to aid my PvP gameplay while not forcing me to trudge through an already over elaborate, unexciting PvE world. However, with new updates and expansions on the horizon, my #1 concern is that such an environment will be brought down because there are enough PvE players speaking out, and little to no PvP players sticking up for what they already like and enjoy.

Expanding the PvE environment should be done in a way that will not give those who play PvE extensively any kind of advantage over those who prefer to play PvP as 90% of their gameplay experience with GuildWars. Runes, though not so much a danger anymore due to the priest of Balthazar, was the biggest example of a threat to the PvP system.

I play this game ONLY for the PvP experience. The PvE is lame at best, and there are countless games who walk all over it. Yes, I know, a lot of them are not free to play, but I just worry about the future of the game.

I'm not sure what I can do to try to make sure that the voice of the Pvp gamer is heard, and that we don't want the game to change significantly, but I guess for now all I can do is to let my voice be heard. I know there are others out there who feel the way I do as well. Let's give these PvE gamers hell if they ruin our game.(I say that last statement with some reserve, it's not so much a threat, as it is just my overall annoyance coming out at the fact that the only people who seem to complain about the game incesently are PvEers or hybrids.)

Anyway, I just hope that Arenanet doesn't ruin the game from the Pvpers point of view.

Note: Hybrids are not true Pvpers, they like to walk the line, and they're worse than PvE people cause they're willing to enhance both which in turn will often make it more difficult for the PvPers to keep up because they don't have the "leet gear".

Okay, that's my rant for the day.

Edit: I almost forgot. The time they take to advance PvE is time spent away from working to do things for the PvP environment. *cough* Ladder Decay *cough*

YOu're full of crap.
I play pve all the time, I also play pvp all the time.
The only thing that really makes a difference in pvp concerning gear is your armor.

All my chars are pve chars. All of them were built for pvp.

pvp = 50% of this game
pve = 50% of this game

Just because you like pvp better than pve doesn't make you right.

Hybrids on true pvp? Please, if ever a dueling arena is made. I would be happy to teach you a lession.

Rayea · Aug 07, 2005, 01:44 PM // 13:44

PvE get 'leet' gear? since when?

PvP gets all the top stuff right from the start, and so long as they have unlocked the runes and the upgrade items, they get what they want.

maybe you meen 'leet' skills? since it is easier to unlock and obtain skills for PvE and its faster to get items and similar in PvP.

KelvinC · Aug 07, 2005, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by PieXags

because PvP in this game to me, is too dull, small-scale, unmotivated, and generally pointless. Honestly who cares about 8vs8 GvG? Big deal. Why are they fighting again? To get higher in the "ranks"...? Oh, woo, big prize...text. It's rare that you actually find a sort of war/intense battle going on, it's all the same small, tiny builds fighting over and over in the same small areas. What's the motivation to do these long, repetitive, small-scale battles?

There isn't any, for me at least.

That is the problem. Actually the 'ideal' pvp enviroment shouldn't be like this. That is why many PvPers are suggesting for improvments. Most PvE people pre-judged PvP from what they are now seeing, and beleive no matter how improved the pvp is it is still like that.

TheGreatBoo · Aug 07, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maltare

This game was clearly(at least in my opinion) founded on the sole basis of creating a PvP environment unlike any other. Also most all posts I see that are relavent to game enhances are related to the PvE or non-PvP player interaction aspect of the game. I VERY strongly oppose any advances arenanet would make towards developing a more complex PvE atmosphere at the expense of PvP players.

The priest of Balthazar was an EXCELLENT addition to the game. Allowing someone like myself, an extremely busy guild leader who has little time for PvE, time to attain skills to aid my PvP gameplay while not forcing me to trudge through an already over elaborate, unexciting PvE world. However, with new updates and expansions on the horizon, my #1 concern is that such an environment will be brought down because there are enough PvE players speaking out, and little to no PvP players sticking up for what they already like and enjoy.

Expanding the PvE environment should be done in a way that will not give those who play PvE extensively any kind of advantage over those who prefer to play PvP as 90% of their gameplay experience with GuildWars. Runes, though not so much a danger anymore due to the priest of Balthazar, was the biggest example of a threat to the PvP system.

I play this game ONLY for the PvP experience. The PvE is lame at best, and there are countless games who walk all over it. Yes, I know, a lot of them are not free to play, but I just worry about the future of the game.

I'm not sure what I can do to try to make sure that the voice of the Pvp gamer is heard, and that we don't want the game to change significantly, but I guess for now all I can do is to let my voice be heard. I know there are others out there who feel the way I do as well. Let's give these PvE gamers hell if they ruin our game.(I say that last statement with some reserve, it's not so much a threat, as it is just my overall annoyance coming out at the fact that the only people who seem to complain about the game incesently are PvEers or hybrids.)

Anyway, I just hope that Arenanet doesn't ruin the game from the Pvpers point of view.

Note: Hybrids are not true Pvpers, they like to walk the line, and they're worse than PvE people cause they're willing to enhance both which in turn will often make it more difficult for the PvPers to keep up because they don't have the "leet gear".

Okay, that's my rant for the day.

Edit: I almost forgot. The time they take to advance PvE is time spent away from working to do things for the PvP environment. *cough* Ladder Decay *cough*

Ok first of all the pve updates aren't at the expense of pvp players. Strict pvp players just complain about another pve update instead of a pvp one. Everyone seems to forget the faction and priest of balthazar update. Pve didn't get that much either. The only thing I can remember is some new quests. Don't whine, be patient. As they said many times, they're working on it.

And don't give me the pvp community is a minority. Every pvper i've seen claims its the majority and opens 30 threads to talk about the same crap. The games 50% pve, 50% pvp, whether you want to admit it or not. They're not going to give away uas again. That was for a beta, and they stated that firmly.

Pve players aren't ruining the game. Pve players can't ruin the game. What you need to realize is that most players aren't strick pvp or pve, but both.

And isn't what you strive for rank and fame? What else can you get from it? Oh how about a great drop. Well lets see, they have that in hoh. Don't even mention spirit spam its irrelevant from this topic. Putting good drops for a victory in guildbattles wouldn't do anything to sate pvp players either. And leet gear, give me a break. Nerfzilla struck, and struck hard at everyone who pves. I am a hybrid. The best stuff I have is worse then pvp weapons. I have no perfect mods and no perfect upgrade components. I still am very successful when playing pvp. The weapons don't make the player.

Seron Dalar · Aug 07, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

So basically your idea is that because you like PvP better... ANet shouldn't work on PvE at all? That's nice.

Red Sonya · Aug 07, 2005, 06:56 PM // 18:56

I believe they should make both sides work hard and earn what they get. I don't want to see either side of it get "easy". I would like to see them both get harder. Having to play the PVE to gain the best skills vs just handing it to pvpers is great. I hope they continue to do this. I wasn't too pleased they just give them free "runes" now without them having to play the PVE game for them. This has ruined the sales of runes in the PVE game because no one that playse PVP need to buy them if they are using a PVP only character. Make it harder A-Net or people are just going to become bored faster. If there is no challenge there is no fun.

And I have to agree about PVP to a certain degree, it's nothing more than a slam and smaktard fest for the most part, big deal, rank & fame, who really cares? Unless you bring rank & fame to the whole PVP community in ALL the arenas, instead of just HoH you are just really servicing a handful of your total players. There are many that just enjoy the random groups vs the same ole spirit spammy, or spike teams. One thing about random, you get a lot of diversity and not the same ole same ole or have to wait hours just to get in one group cause you don't use or want to use TS/Vent.

A-Net has a lot of work cut out for them to make this a great game and turn it back into what it used to be...fun. It's funneled down into almost boredom on both sides of the fence for me. Heh, that would be funny to see some NPC Spike and Spirit Spamming groups in the game. lol I'd laugh my balls off when people started screaming about those kinds of NPC groups they are having to face. And in really tough/higher level zones, there needs to be more disenchanters. That will stop the FOM Monk Builds that are owning the UW.

SOT · Aug 07, 2005, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maltare

This game was clearly(at least in my opinion) founded on the sole basis of creating a PvP environment unlike any other. Also most all posts I see that are relavent to game enhances

Pushing your opinion on us and telling us what is relevant to your own agenda is kinda cute.

I think you hit the nail on the head with what is wrong with the PVP aspect of the game

BigTru · Aug 07, 2005, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

PvE get 'leet' gear? since when?

PvP gets all the top stuff right from the start, and so long as they have unlocked the runes and the upgrade items, they get what they want.

Acually, PvE'rs can get better weapons than PvP'rs. I've never seen a PvP'r with a sword that ALWAYS has +20% damage (no health, enchantment, hex or stance requirements) in addition to a +15% damage while health is above 50%. Yes, I have seen this drop. No, PvP'rs can't get this. Well, I suppose you could send it to a PvP character via storage, but it wouldn't be customized.

medikamen · Aug 07, 2005, 07:49 PM // 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

YOu're full of crap.
I play pve all the time, I also play pvp all the time.
The only thing that really makes a difference in pvp concerning gear is your armor.

All my chars are pve chars. All of them were built for pvp.

pvp = 50% of this game
pve = 50% of this game

Just because you like pvp better than pve doesn't make you right.

Hybrids on true pvp? Please, if ever a dueling arena is made. I would be happy to teach you a lession.

You got my full support on that, the game wasn't made for that guy's specific needs, not all of us want or can be top PvP players whereas everyone can be a good PvE players (fighting a NPCs is much easier than fighting another player). The post is full of arrogance and is unjustified

Maltare · Aug 07, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatBoo

Ok first of all the pve updates aren't at the expense of pvp players. Strict pvp players just complain about another pve update instead of a pvp one. Everyone seems to forget the faction and priest of balthazar update. Pve didn't get that much either. The only thing I can remember is some new quests. Don't whine, be patient. As they said many times, they're working on it.

And don't give me the pvp community is a minority. Every pvper i've seen claims its the majority and opens 30 threads to talk about the same crap. The games 50% pve, 50% pvp, whether you want to admit it or not. They're not going to give away uas again. That was for a beta, and they stated that firmly.

Pve players aren't ruining the game. Pve players can't ruin the game. What you need to realize is that most players aren't strick pvp or pve, but both.

And isn't what you strive for rank and fame? What else can you get from it? Oh how about a great drop. Well lets see, they have that in hoh. Don't even mention spirit spam its irrelevant from this topic. Putting good drops for a victory in guildbattles wouldn't do anything to sate pvp players either. And leet gear, give me a break. Nerfzilla struck, and struck hard at everyone who pves. I am a hybrid. The best stuff I have is worse then pvp weapons. I have no perfect mods and no perfect upgrade components. I still am very successful when playing pvp. The weapons don't make the player.

Interesting post. At the time of the original posting of this, I was frustrated and annoyed with people(mostly those interested in pve gameplay) constantly bashing this game in the hopes of getting it improved. Or at least that's my best interpretation of things. So, a lot of what is said here is exaggerated.

So, to your whine comment, I say to you I am not, I was meerly ranting for the sake of ranting. Also, about me claiming that the pvp community is a minority, I am also going to have to agree with you that it's not, nor did I ever say that it was. All I said, is that PvE gamers seems to complain about the game more than anyone else, and my concern is that it will push PvE as a predominant over PvP because the majority of PvPers, like me, are completely satisfied with the game as it is.

Okay, to address your leet gear comments. That's exactly what I'm saying. The way the game is now, is great because someone who PvE's 90% of the time cannot simply come in with better gear and take over. So I was not ransacking the current state of the game, I was conveying my concern for the future.

Now, as to fame and rank etc. Yeah that's nice, but even if they did not have that aspect of the game, I would still play this game as it is. The intrisic strategy of PvP, the ever changing strategy, the singular and group builds that can be put together. The very fact that there is no loot beyond HoH is actually quite pleasing to me because it tends to keep "treasure hunters" away from Pvp battlegrounds. The more intense the competition the better. The rewards from pvp come from within(at least for me) and not from anything that arenanet or the game would implement. Adding more loot to pvp would not increase my love for pvp, and would most likely make it wane due to the draw in of "treasure hunters".

Basically what it boils down to for me is that, the game as it stands is great! I just worry that in the future it might change into something else.

Anyway, yes my original post was self-agenda'd(i dont think that's a word) and yes, it's selfish, but I don't see the difference between my post and a lot of other posts that a lot of you support. Anyway, later.

TheGreatBoo · Aug 07, 2005, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maltare

Interesting post. At the time of the original posting of this, I was frustrated and annoyed with people(mostly those interested in pve gameplay) constantly bashing this game in the hopes of getting it improved. Or at least that's my best interpretation of things. So, a lot of what is said here is exaggerated.

So, to your whine comment, I say to you I am not, I was meerly ranting for the sake of ranting. Also, about me claiming that the pvp community is a minority, I am also going to have to agree with you that it's not, nor did I ever say that it was. All I said, is that PvE gamers seems to complain about the game more than anyone else, and my concern is that it will push PvE as a predominant over PvP because the majority of PvPers, like me, are completely satisfied with the game as it is.

Okay, to address your leet gear comments. That's exactly what I'm saying. The way the game is now, is great because someone who PvE's 90% of the time cannot simply come in with better gear and take over. So I was not ransacking the current state of the game, I was conveying my concern for the future.

Now, as to fame and rank etc. Yeah that's nice, but even if they did not have that aspect of the game, I would still play this game as it is. The intrisic strategy of PvP, the ever changing strategy, the singular and group builds that can be put together. The very fact that there is no loot beyond HoH is actually quite pleasing to me because it tends to keep "treasure hunters" away from Pvp battlegrounds. The more intense the competition the better. The rewards from pvp come from within(at least for me) and not from anything that arenanet or the game would implement. Adding more loot to pvp would not increase my love for pvp, and would most likely make it wane due to the draw in of "treasure hunters".

Basically what it boils down to for me is that, the game as it stands is great! I just worry that in the future it might change into something else.

Anyway, yes my original post was self-agenda'd(i dont think that's a word) and yes, it's selfish, but I don't see the difference between my post and a lot of other posts that a lot of you support. Anyway, later.

Actually, in my eyes, people complain about the pvp content being updated more. I would have to agree with you though, pve players do complain about the economy and drops etc etc that strick pvp players don't have to deal with.

Yeah, the gear doesn't really bother me. Sure, its nice to have, but you can live without it. I'd rather have a pve item that I found later in the game thats imperfect, instead of a perfect weapon gotten in 10 seconds by creating a pvp character. It gives you a sense of accomplishment and something other than "is wielding pvp . . . ."

Also, I play pvp for the change in direction, test out some new skills, or just for fun. The only time I ever play hoh is with my guild if we want to test a certain build out. I usually stick to random arenas and gvg. Faction is a good bonus, I think item drops would make it lame.

And after reading this, you completely turned around haha. I dono, after reading the first I got the impression that you wanted pve to be shafted, and have the focus on the game shift drastically to pvp. Yeah, I agree, there shouldn't be any large changes. I do agree with several things that the pvpers are talking about. There needs to be a way for them to unlock things faster mostly. I just think that people should be patient and wait for future updates. When they say they're going to do something, they'll do it. I enjoy the game now, and look forward to what comes about in the future.

Shadow_Avenger · Aug 07, 2005, 10:55 PM // 22:55

Hehehehe, its only of late that the PvE crowd have moaned, if you look back a month or two you will find all the moaning was done by PvP'ers and 99% of it was grind and UAS. All this moaning actually was sorted with the implementation of Faction, this quietened down the PvP players alot, I am sure the PvE players will quieten down when they finally release the two new areas. Then both PvP'er and PvE'ers will be moaning in equal measure. I very much doubt it will be less moaning, just moaning about different things.
There are also alot of constructive suggestions in the PvE moaning posts, and TBH it would not hurt A.net or GW if they actually took on board what the PvE fans are saying.
They have basically nailed PvP, with a few minor balancing tweaks they could in theory leave that side of the game well alone till the next expansion.
If they actually made the PvE more open, more quest orientated more diablo / current mmorpg they could infact nail the PvE also.
As it stands it has Average PvE, and Good PvP.
I also think that with GW actually receiveing such good PR and reviews when players actually play the game their expectations are set alittle too high. With 1 month of play I would give the game would get 9/10, but after 2 months it drops to 7.5/10 as the sparkle does actually loss its shine and that game you though was going to last for months and months actual doesn't at all. That is not to say it isn't fun or a game that you will click on after a few weeks and have a fun game, it is just not what the hype tells you it is.

Prince_Ayreon · Aug 08, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

With 1 month of play I would give the game would get 9/10, but after 2 months it drops to 7.5/10 as the sparkle does actually loss its shine and that game you though was going to last for months and months actual doesn't at all. That is not to say it isn't fun or a game that you will click on after a few weeks and have a fun game, it is just not what the hype tells you it is.

Quoted out of agreement.

TheGreatBoo · Aug 08, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

Hehehehe, its only of late that the PvE crowd have moaned, if you look back a month or two you will find all the moaning was done by PvP'ers and 99% of it was grind and UAS. All this moaning actually was sorted with the implementation of Faction, this quietened down the PvP players alot, I am sure the PvE players will quieten down when they finally release the two new areas. Then both PvP'er and PvE'ers will be moaning in equal measure. I very much doubt it will be less moaning, just moaning about different things.
There are also alot of constructive suggestions in the PvE moaning posts, and TBH it would not hurt A.net or GW if they actually took on board what the PvE fans are saying.
They have basically nailed PvP, with a few minor balancing tweaks they could in theory leave that side of the game well alone till the next expansion.
If they actually made the PvE more open, more quest orientated more diablo / current mmorpg they could infact nail the PvE also.
As it stands it has Average PvE, and Good PvP.
I also think that with GW actually receiveing such good PR and reviews when players actually play the game their expectations are set alittle too high. With 1 month of play I would give the game would get 9/10, but after 2 months it drops to 7.5/10 as the sparkle does actually loss its shine and that game you though was going to last for months and months actual doesn't at all. That is not to say it isn't fun or a game that you will click on after a few weeks and have a fun game, it is just not what the hype tells you it is.

Yeah. Of course, I doubt the complaints drop out of satisfaction, instead they drop because the newly implemented material take up too many hours haha. The desire for new things and updates will always be there. The only change needed to be made is by players. They need to calm down, take a deep breath, post a detailed and well writeen post that doesn't shaft pvp or pve, and be patient for crying out loud. I would estimate that around 100 threads are created every day on this forum alone. Anet doesn't have the staff that blizzard or squaresoft has. They try to listen to what the players are talking about, and try to keep players of pvp and pve equally entertained. Your voice will be heard. Getting angry over it and coming out with guns blazing isn't going to speed anything up.

Also, this games the same as every other. Over time, its shimmer will fade, it will get old, and newer and better games will come out. However, if anet keeps coming out with new material, via updates and expansions, it will greatly enhance its replayability and keep players occupied for possibly years.