Curse

Iceciro · Aug 08, 2005, 01:17 AM // 01:17

This post is different from the others because it addressess it on a different level, I am aware that there are other threads about spirit spam but they arent on the same subject. I will also not respond to ANY flames. Intelligent arguments, yes, but flames, no.

First off, let me say that:
I hate NR, but that's not why I hate spirit spam groups. I hate spike teams too, and I don't have as much of an issue with them.

I'm also sure that somewhere out there is a perfectly viable counter to Spirit Spam. I will also admit that to play SS properly, you need a strategy and a proper group.

I don't want Rangers to be useless in PVP. I don't want spirit spam to be useless in PVP either. I would like to see NR nefred, but I can honestly tell you that's just because it royally burns my Hydromancer.

Now that that's out of the way:
The problem with Spirit Spam in competitive PVP is that it does not contribute to a healthy game environment. A healthy game environment would be something like a massive game of rock-paper-sicssors, with more than 3 options - where everything can be trumped. While I am sure there is a counter to Spirit Spam, whatever that is will be walked on by every other group.

The way PVP is now, you have two options. You play Spirit Spam or you play a ground designed to try to stop Spirit Spam, and then you run into a spike/smite/paladin/beastmastery group and die. A constant one-on-one battle of the Doomsday Device and it's One Mighty Counter is stupid. It's boring. Reducing the game to 2 playable arena groups is retarded. Spirit Spam simply reduces too many playable archetypes to nothing. The problem is not that power, it's the shutdown. If it was as strong as smiting groups, spike groups, heall ball groups(the kind without spirits), then it would be fine - THAT is balance. Right now, it is undoubtedly the best selection - a cookie cutter template for dominance, and that is the problem.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 08, 2005, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Look here for how to beat spirt spammers without restricting your group.

Iceciro · Aug 08, 2005, 08:30 AM // 08:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Look here for how to beat spirt spammers without restricting your group.

That isn't an adequate rebuttal to my discussion- plenty of people in that thread you referred to expressed extreme disaproval at your tactics, including many who call it too restrictive versus non-spirit groups. The majority of people in that linked thread are on my side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Right just in case Anet is thinking of nerfing rangers any more i'm posting this thread for all of you out there who can't beat the spirt spamming teams.

I never said they were unbeatable, I simply said it's at too great a cost to the environment. And it's clear you don't like them nerfing rangers, I don't know why.
I shouldn't HAVE to build a full new idea JUST to destroy a new archetype. I shouldn't have to sacrifice my overall effectiveness to stop a specific group from running over me like a bulldozer. That is what SS does - please READ before posting a cookie-cutter response.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 08, 2005, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceciro

That isn't an adequate rebuttal to my discussion- plenty of people in that thread you referred to expressed extreme disaproval at your tactics, including many who call it too restrictive versus non-spirit groups. The majority of people in that linked thread are on my side.

I don't RUN spirt spamming groups. When did i say that? We use spirts. We use pets. We use wards. We use Mayrty... etc.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceciro

I never said they were unbeatable, I simply said it's at too great a cost to the environment. And it's clear you don't like them nerfing rangers, I don't know why.

Beacuse i think we got enough of the Nerf bat in Beta.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceciro

I shouldn't HAVE to build a full new idea JUST to destroy a new archetype. I shouldn't have to sacrifice my overall effectiveness to stop a specific group from running over me like a bulldozer. That is what SS does - please READ before posting a cookie-cutter response.

Yes you SHOULD. The same way everybody had to overhalul to beat spikers. Did you even click my link and read it. You need 2 players with plenty of spare skill slots to bulldozer over spirts.

Como Fort · Aug 08, 2005, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

If it was as strong as smiting groups, spike groups, heall ball groups(the kind without spirits), then it would be fine - THAT is balance. Right now, it is undoubtedly the best selection - a cookie cutter template for dominance, and that is the problem.

If you have actually been playing the game you will realise that hardly anyone uses Ranger Spikes anymore, its all about Smiting now.

Those that do still continue with the Rangers, not just go with the 'flavour of the month' are only ever the most experienced and are still trying new things. Don't forget, Rangers without Spirits are near enough reduced to nothing.

Timoz · Aug 08, 2005, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceciro

The way PVP is now, you have two options. You play Spirit Spam or you play a ground designed to try to stop Spirit Spam, and then you run into a spike/smite/paladin/beastmastery group and die. A constant one-on-one battle of the Doomsday Device and it's One Mighty Counter is stupid. It's boring. Reducing the game to 2 playable arena groups is retarded. Spirit Spam simply reduces too many playable archetypes to nothing. The problem is not that power, it's the shutdown. If it was as strong as smiting groups, spike groups, heall ball groups(the kind without spirits), then it would be fine - THAT is balance. Right now, it is undoubtedly the best selection - a cookie cutter template for dominance, and that is the problem.

Yes, 2 options! ( You've mentioned 6 ). I think i know how you meant it though.

Hmm, wouldn't you rather try and find a counter like Thomasuwoo? .. And then build on that and make it better.?

If they nerf spirit groups and NR, doesn't that just pave the way for smiting?
You gotta be careful about suggestions, you nerf them in one way such as NR, if its nerfed too much all your doing is paving the way for mass smite maybe. If you nerf one thing it has to have a chain effect to balance it. Maybe i'm wrong here please correct me if i am.

How about if they didn't nerf NR and improved the counters for it a lil?

All credit to Thomasuwoo btw for trying to counter. Your thread looks like annoying stuff in store for ranger groups.

Nazzarus Stormfall · Aug 08, 2005, 09:18 AM // 09:18

I personally won't run a spirit group.. it does seem to cookie cutter and goes against my personal preferences. I really enjoy running a spiker group (Yeah, I've seen the arguments) I don't do this to win, I do it because I enjoy it. It's challanging to come up with builds that shutdown spirits.. and smites.. (yeah, I'm that good /flex) My biggest issue that I've seen is in natures renewal. Rumors (which are only that) say it's going to be made into an elite skill, but what the heck good would that do? I'm fine with it say, making enchantments take double to cast.. but stripping them from every target? that's too dibilitating for every other sort of build out there, and makes a protection monks lifebond completely useless, (which only takes half the damage away, not all of it) as well as near half a monks healing repertoire. I'm struggling to see both sides of the fence here, and my main question is this. Am I the only one who feels this is unbalanced, or is it just because I am defeated by it so swiftly and consistantly? This seemed a good place to post this, hope i don't take it on a nasty tangent..

Dan Mega · Aug 08, 2005, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Please close this thread, there are a few dozen like it.

Calnaion Blackhawk · Aug 08, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

haha , well spirits spamming is more of a defensive stance to hold rather than an offensive stance is all i have to say

Timoz · Aug 08, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calnaion Blackhawk

haha , well spirits spamming is more of a defensive stance to hold rather than an offensive stance is all i have to say

Depends how you use it hawk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Mega

Please close this thread, there are a few dozen like it.

My god! someone else noticed it! now all thats left is for a moderator