Curse

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 20, 2005, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Not rouge dangit!

Rogue:
An infiltrator with the ability to hide, camoflauge, or otherwise blend in with his surroundings in order to bypass many obstacles that all other classes must fight through.

A support class, perhaps limited to medium or light armors, and small, easily concealed weapons - nothing larger than a shortsword.
The rogue fills the niche of group spy and scout, while perhaps adding another facet to combat on the field: surprise and poison abilities.

Surprise: Allow rogues the ability skills to conceal, hide, or go completely invisible for a set amount of time in seconds; any combat or other actions initiated (other than movement) breaks the invisibility ability. Likewise, attempting to go invisible while in combat is only possible if the skill can be employed without taking any damage, or being subjected to any hex or detrimental spell effects.

Poison: Allow the rogue class to purchase or craft specific poisons that may degenerate health, inflict bleeding damage, slow, stun, or otherwise incapacitate their foes. These poisons could have limited duration and require a successful "hit" with a weapon to utilize. Perhaps these poisons may even return a small amount of health to the rogue?
Crafted poisons also provides a gold sink.

Special skills: allow rogues a sneak or surprise attack which must be initated while concealed or invisible, (obviously cancelling concealment once used) that if successful does special damage; either a single large hit, or perhaps an incapacitation effect for some time? Bleeding comes to mind.

Rock-paper-scissors model: Rogues fit in somewhere between casters and rangers; they lack the armor and weapon damage of warrior types, but can hold their own if properly played with cunning and skill.
Similar to mesmers, Rogues don't necessarily do big damage or defense, but they enhance and increase the effectiveness of their teams ability - plus the enhancement allowing for spying and infiltrations - particularly in PvP - would add an entirely new dimension to the game.

What do you think? Help flesh this out a bit.

Talesin

Gauge Ironfist · Jul 20, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

The Only Problem I see with A Rouge being able to "hide" would be that with a large number of hidden rogues in a group, you could have this whole group bypass areas in order to farm areas that for others cant be done without fighting the way through... I feel that they would be given an unfair ability to solo/group farm areas and also, think of a group of 8 rogues in PvP that go invis for a time, and then all appear at once at the end of your battle right next to you killin u and then going invis again... or that they could all walk past you to your priest and kill him before you knew what happened.
Otherwise id love ot have a rogue!

Ascension · Jul 20, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

The question is whether the gaming engine can handle stealth or not. I'd say not at this time. If they can't fix the pathing, how could they handle all the stealth stuff? I'm sure they could, but I'd prefer them making a wicked engine for PvP before adding new features.

A good idea , although it'd need tweaking of the other classes

EDIT :: Well, there would be counters to mass rogue's - they'd probally have to add some sort of detection meathod. (tweaking other classes)

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 20, 2005, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Perhaps the invisibilty could be done in a fashion similar to "ghosts" only a bit more transparent - you wouldn't actually see the rogue until they were up close and personal - and thats if you were looking for them.

In regards to teams of invisible rogues in PvP, ever play DAoC?
They have guilds of invisible characters that use the skill exclusively for PvP!
And remember - you can't go invis if taking damage, or subject to a hex or degenerative skill. Both these caveats provide easy counters to the "stealth and assassinate" crowd.

Sturmkoenig · Aug 12, 2005, 09:42 PM // 21:42

I think real invisibility is not the real solution, whatever other games have...

I would like a rogue primary attribute like this:
You cannot detect the rogue via map or ctrl-lookaround if you do not have plain sight to him and he is farer away than X feet (decreasing with attribute level)

That addes, that once a rogue has been seen by a party member/ally he shows up on the map for everyone.

That would rearrange the whole pvp model, if there would be (lets take the extreme possibility) a hole team of 8 rogues and you would have to be very close to them or would not be able to "see" them through walls.
Walls, hills, valleys, everything would become more important and not only an obstacle for movement.
If this would still be too powerful, you could make it a Skill (e.g. "Silent Stance", ends if attacking/casting/whatever, reduces movement speed slightly)

I think this idea can still be refined, any opinions?

Problems, i see about the rogue in general:
1)There are many skills from other classes, that sound too much like rogue, like: Warrior' Cunning. (If a warrior has that, then a rogue must have sth 3x as effective!)
2)All the trap spells (if the rogue is only countering them, then they are not common enough, there should be a greater NEED to counter them, so make then more powerful and/or more of them.)
3)how can the rogue be unique enough, without being imbalanced?
So if he does more dmg than a W in melee but has less armor, he must do enough more dmg, without getting imba, and so on...

BigTru · Aug 12, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

Not rouge dangit!

Poison: Allow the rogue class to purchase or craft specific poisons that may degenerate health, inflict bleeding damage, slow, stun, or otherwise incapacitate their foes. These poisons could have limited duration and require a successful "hit" with a weapon to utilize. Perhaps these poisons may even return a small amount of health to the rogue?
Crafted poisons also provides a gold sink.

Talesin

Having to farm to progress through the game = Grind, and the devs are trying to get rid of as much grind as they can as it stands.

Besides, how do you expect a PvP made Rogue to craft the poison?

Seron Dalar · Aug 12, 2005, 11:22 PM // 23:22

What a good idea.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=42659

Too bad mine was closed for absolutely no reason. I guess we'll continue the discussion here.

--To Aka-whatever: Uh, no. You can't bank on the assumption that it'll be blatantly overpowered or really bad, just because it's like that in other games. That's like saying "This game will suck because many other games have sucked." You're wrong on the other count too. In PvE, you could sneak up to someone and do Dark Strike or other stealth-related moves. Or, you could use it to sneak by an entire group. However, I see an issue... you could theoretically just sneak by all the groups in an area. It'd be like running, but with virtually no risk. I'd say that for PvE, make it so that enemies can see you and target you (you're always in the "blurred" state as opposed to invisible; see my post about it on the second page), but the enchantment is still technically up, so Dark Strike and other stuff like that work, until you attack or the enchantment is removed.

--To DeLuux: Thanks. Also... please do look at what I've been saying about the trap-killing skills for several posts.

--To FrogDevourer: I'm still waiting for a response to that PM I sent.

As for this topic...

Crafting poison is a neat idea, but I don't think it fits in. No other class can do anything like it. It's like pickpocketing.

As for invisibility in PvP, I think I'll throw out something else-- if you cast a spell that would hide you, but you're within that circle where PvE enemies notice you and all that (or perhaps within some other radius), it's the blurred effect instead of normal invisibility. Makes more sense that way. You could have a spirit that prevents invisibility too, although I'd say make it Elite. Then again, freaking Nature's Renewal would blast it away regardless... they need to nerf that so badly.

lord_shar · Aug 13, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

I'd like to see a dual sword or sword/dagger wielding rogue in GW as in so many other MMORPG's (EQ, WoW, etc). Just keep their off-hand additional attack chance-based via dual-wield skill level or some other unique attribute.