Curse

MCS · Aug 09, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

They are not part of the PvE storyline, they are bonuses. It doesn't matter if the PvPers don't care for them they are still rewards for PvPing. You say it frustrates Europeans because they can't go to the UW/Fissure, well it would frustrate me if they could without earning it. As I said, if it wasn't there, you wouldn't miss it.

Nightwish · Aug 10, 2005, 02:02 AM // 02:02

UW/FoW are part of the incentives in PvP-ing. As much as pvp-ers like to pit their skills against one another, a cold hard reward will make it all the more interesting. The way it seems now is:

Guilds battle out against one another. What determines victory are skills and teamwork. And the rewards are UW/FoW. So having 24/7 access to these areas by all players would be pointless - unless another type of rewards are set up. But that will fuel new complaints, wouldnt it?

Besides, you cannot really say this is a discrimination as there is no prejudice involved in Anet's design. Just happens that Europe has less online players.

I second someone's idea of replacing continent-based fractions with the Balthazar, Grenth and etc. That would solve "most" dissatisfactions regarding the regional fractions.

DrSLUGFly · Aug 10, 2005, 03:59 AM // 03:59

perhaps a guild has to choose a god (as opposed to a player) and what if said guild's god is automatically the minority god?

There's still the server issue though... although I hate the WaW system I love the fact that sometimes the statues appear active and sometimes not. If it wasn't server wide how could they have this difference? Simply by player? That might be a problem, though I"m not a programmer so I don't know.

Vilaptca · Aug 10, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Europe has had it almost all day today. The same guild took it over and over and over again. I seen it so many times that it was annoying. Congrats Europe. I wish I remembered the guilds name, I would like to congratulate them for owning everyone for such a long period of time.

I would actually like to know what strategy they were using to do this, it must have been new to beat pretty much everyone.

Ashley Twig · Aug 10, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by latbec

I'm in Europe and if I feel this game is not fair, I won't buy any expansion coming out. That will be my protest.

Here's some math based on the numbers that were posted somewhere on this forum.

Korea: 20.000.000
America: 2.000.000
Europe: 200.000

If all europeans stoped playing right this minute, aNet would loose aprox. 1% of all players.

How much care can you put into 1% of your customers?

The impact of your protest would be like a bug, ending it's life on my windshield.

Phoenix Of The Rising Sun · Aug 10, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

not all people dat are playin gw in the respective continents are actually from their continents...some europeans may actually be fightin for americas side!! dun forget dat
people are playin all over the world, mostly supportin america or perhaps korea. i guess dats why people take korean classes...=P

Seron Dalar · Aug 10, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

^^^Esoteric Warriors. Been seeing them for a while now.

Crowskie · Aug 10, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

Europe has had it almost all day today. The same guild took it over and over and over again. I seen it so many times that it was annoying. Congrats Europe. I wish I remembered the guilds name, I would like to congratulate them for owning everyone for such a long period of time.

I would actually like to know what strategy they were using to do this, it must have been new to beat pretty much everyone.

I was going to make a long-winded post about how giving special advantages to someone is wrong(I have supported the idea of people fighting under Gods.), but this pretty much sums it up.

Antagonist · Aug 10, 2005, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCS

They are not part of the PvE storyline, they are bonuses. It doesn't matter if the PvPers don't care for them they are still rewards for PvPing. You say it frustrates Europeans because they can't go to the UW/Fissure, well it would frustrate me if they could without earning it. As I said, if it wasn't there, you wouldn't miss it.

If I had a third arm I could drink a beer, eat popcorn and switch channels on TV at the same time. Alas, I do not have a third arm and endgame content exists so telling people to ignore it is somehow futile. Again you miss the relevant point: UW / FoW and the new maps are endgame content for people who beat the game if they are not into PvP. Fissure armor is only available there. Plus, it's important for PvP people to unlock skils. Less skills mean less chance in tombs means less favour means less skills... see where I'm heading ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

Here's some math based on the numbers that were posted somewhere on this forum.

Korea: 20.000.000
America: 2.000.000
Europe: 200.000

I've seen these numbers before and by all means I can't believe they are accurate or even realistc. From what I know Diablo II sold about 10 Million copies and it was a runaway hit. World of Warcraft has about 3.5 Million active subscribers. Are people honestly trying to tell me that Guild Wars sold as many copies as The Sims ? Especially when where was this OFFICIAL PDF file from NCSoft's server which outlined that sales in Korea where very disappointing ( 27.000 copies) and that GW sold about 600.000 units in the US / Europe.

ANet needs every customer they can get. They are dependant on expansion sales or GW will go down the drain very quickly. Don't expect NCSoft to be social welfare and continue funding Guild Wars if it fails to make profits. 100.000 european players * ~40 Euro = 4 Million Euro. Definitly not worth the attention, eh ?

Pandanslesdents · Aug 10, 2005, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

perhaps a guild has to choose a god (as opposed to a player) and what if said guild's god is automatically the minority god?

And what about unguilded players?

If most are in a guild, there are still some free spirits up there ^_^

MCS · Aug 10, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

If I had a third arm I could drink a beer, eat popcorn and switch channels on TV at the same time. Alas, I do not have a third arm and endgame content exists so telling people to ignore it is somehow futile. Again you miss the relevant point: UW / FoW and the new maps are endgame content for people who beat the game if they are not into PvP. Fissure armor is only available there. Plus, it's important for PvP people to unlock skils. Less skills mean less chance in tombs means less favour means less skills... see where I'm heading ?

No that is what you WANT UW/FoW to be. Somehow the idea of ANet making endgame content for people who aren't interested in PvP that must be earned through PvP doesn't make much sense to me.

Yeah those numbers didn't make any sense to me but the OP said it so I'm not arguing with him when it only helps my point.

The Mighty Toe · Aug 10, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Maybe there could be an 'open window' for people wanting to get into FoW and UW from Europe. It could last for just a short amount of time: ie. minutes-1 hour; so that the areas are not overclogged with Europeans

These are just the ideas of a sad, sad toe, so feel free to flame them if you wish

Pandanslesdents · Aug 10, 2005, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

Here's some math based on the numbers that were posted somewhere on this forum.

Korea: 20.000.000
America: 2.000.000
Europe: 200.000

If all europeans stoped playing right this minute, aNet would loose aprox. 1% of all players.

How much care can you put into 1% of your customers?

The impact of your protest would be like a bug, ending it's life on my windshield.

Yes, 1% don't appears to mean much, but lets do some more maths :

200 000 x 50$ a head = 11 millions $.

At this amount I would care for even 1% of my total customers. A costly bug in the windshield.

Pandanslesdents · Aug 10, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Mighty Toe

Maybe there could be an 'open window' for people wanting to get into FoW and UW from Europe. It could last for just a short amount of time: ie. minutes-1 hour; so that the areas are not overclogged with Europeans

No areas can be "overclogged". They are instanced. Whenever you are in UW, or doing a quest or a mission, you are playing in an instanced zone anyway.

ExDeity · Aug 10, 2005, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Look, I hate to give you the answer you didn't want to get, but the only way to be "fair" about anything is to keep things the way they are. Why should Americans or Koreans have to win more games, just because the game isn't popular in Europe? It isn't the faults of Americans or Koreans that we enjoy the game more often than Europeans do. And yes, the only solution to you is to move to an American server- sorry. We shouldn't have to cater to other countries, just because they don't play the damn game.

Antagonist · Aug 10, 2005, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExDeity

Look, I hate to give you the answer you didn't want to get, but the only way to be "fair" about anything is to keep things the way they are. Why should Americans or Koreans have to win more games, just because the game isn't popular in Europe? It isn't the faults of Americans or Koreans that we enjoy the game more often than Europeans do. And yes, the only solution to you is to move to an American server- sorry. We shouldn't have to cater to other countries, just because they don't play the damn game.

Well, remove the link between PvP and PvE. Make it two independant mode like in most other games. It was a retarded idea to begin with and has caused only grief among the player base as can be seen in thousands of threads across all fan forums. Seriously, due to that link ANet suffers probably lots of headaches because every change they to to PvE must not imbalance PvP and the other way round. Plus, If ANet ever told europe that they are not a priority in Guild Wars they would loose pretty much every trust people have for this company. My underdeveloped business instincts tell me that it would be unwise to abondon the european market (= $$$).

MCS,

you missed a relevant point again. FoW and UW are also important for PvP. They are the only areas where you can get decent XP for unlocks which in turn give you a better chance to win and hold favour. The current WaW situation only fortifies the imbalance. You know, rich get richer...blablabla.

Besides, are you suggesting that people who finished the storyline leave the game if they do not want to PvP ? Face it, PvE and PvP are equal parts of this game, whether you (and I) like it or not. Both have a strong a player base and demand attention by ANet. If PvE players leave because they were bored by Guild Wars this will be the last memory they have of the game when they see the expansion pack in the shelfs. Not likely to buy an XP to something that bored you in the end (even if it entertained you for 400 hours before. People are like that

). Same for PvP players. If the huge grind continues they will be lost aswell and move on to other PvP games.

Rayea · Aug 10, 2005, 11:09 AM // 11:09

the fact that the fissure and UW are linked to PvP was planned by a-net.

it is not just for PvP players to get extra XP for thier skills and so on.

it is a place where the PvE comunity can go once they have finished the main storyline, somewhere they can work in till the next big update, like the sumer one, or till the new add on comes out.

and the reason behind the connection favour and the UW?

to incourage those PvE players to dip their toes into the PvPers pool and play a little.

i repeat again....
THE UNDERWORLD DOES NOT BELONG TO PVP ALONE, IT IS FOR BOTH SIDES TO USE!

ahem....and no, this game is NOT unpopular in europe. for the last month it has held the number 5 spot in Game stores PC top ten, and the month befor that, it was number 2.

comparing guild wars to the sims is irrelivant. the sims is not a multiplayr game, nor is it online. you do not need to have the interent to play it. anyone that had a half decent pc could grab a copy and play without the need to download or go online.

europ isnt realy asking for the other two sides to be handicapped, just because there are more american or korean server players, we are saying that it is unfair to force us, and in effect, ALL guild wars players, to have to wait till their server gets favour to enter the underworld.

by disconecting the favour from the underworld, everyone gets to enter, it sill costs cash, and you still have to know what you are doing when you are in there.

and, so that the players that are PvPing for the chance, theres no reason why their server, which has the favour right now, cant have a suitable reward.
dont forget, players PvPing are not just doing it for favour, they do it also for faction, which they get faster by holding favour. so by setting it up that the server that keeps the favour gets the Gods on Their server, and only thier server means that once those groups are in the underworld, they could receve some unique or special favour related quests, from the very gods themselves.

we know they can do it, just visit Sardelac when your server has favour and speak to the Avatar of Dwayna. she will give you a quest, so it *is* possible.
why not simply give a special quest ot quests, only finisheable while you are in the underworld? change the instance of the underworld slightly when your server has the Gods, so as to be different.

make the favour of the Gods be more in keeping with what it is named.connecto it to the gods themselves, not entering the underworld.

Timoz · Aug 10, 2005, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vilaptca

Europe has had it almost all day today. The same guild took it over and over and over again. I seen it so many times that it was annoying. Congrats Europe. I wish I remembered the guilds name, I would like to congratulate them for owning everyone for such a long period of time.

I would actually like to know what strategy they were using to do this, it must have been new to beat pretty much everyone.

exactly, give us more time, we are getting better and maintaining the favor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExDeity

Look, I hate to give you the answer you didn't want to get, but the only way to be "fair" about anything is to keep things the way they are. Why should Americans or Koreans have to win more games, just because the game isn't popular in Europe? It isn't the faults of Americans or Koreans that we enjoy the game more often than Europeans do. And yes, the only solution to you is to move to an American server- sorry. We shouldn't have to cater to other countries, just because they don't play the damn game.

...And being from europe i agree.

trelloskilos · Aug 10, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

My thoughts on the matter:

To the two American players who are stating that:
a) The UW and FoW areas are just bonus additions and should not be missed by Europeans....
b) That they resent the idea of a handicap for European players and think it grossly unfair.

Firstly, the FoW and UW may be additional areas, but there is no denying that these areas have the best drops and largest XP quests in the game. They are the only places to obtain storm & shadow bows, ectoplasm, chaos axes, obsidian and pet black widows. True, the majority of these items may not have much bearing in the game, but Europeans have spent just as much money on the game as the Americans and Koreans, so why introduce a system like WaW that heavily restricts a percentage of players purely based on where they live?

b) I don't like the idea of European players getting an advantage in PvP tournament play either, and believe that everyone should be on equal footing. So, how about removing teamspeak from all PvP tournaments and have everyone rely only on target calling or minimap drawing? That should solve any language barriers in ANY district, as well as provide tighter teams (after all, you'd REALLY have to know your team's tactics well)

There is one further point to make with regard to Europeans and UW/FoW. You know how long it can take to gather a team in the ToA (looking for healing monks, sorting out skills, finding out that there are unascended etc in your team etc.), well, imagine what it's like in Europe. If you're lucky enough to have formed a good concise team, it is not likely that your team will have as much experience or knowledge of the area as you'd like to think. Unless they're die-hard gamers who have had loads of practice on the US servers, or they are a rare breed of gamer who follows orders and doesn't just accept any old quest because it is available, chances are that the team will go so far, die from lack of experience (or even worse, an untimely moment of lag on the Euro server), and then have to wait another week before having another go. Americans on the other hand can just go "Oops - lost 1k. Never mind, we can have another go later today!"

I sense a distinct lack of empathy from the American contingent who have spoken out against the European problem of imbalanced access to FoW and UW. It's very easy to take the FoW and UW for granted if you're on an American server, because the odds are that roughly 50-60% of the time, your country will be in favor, but what if the shoe was on the other foot and the ratio of Koreans, Europeans and Americans was switched resulting in the USA getting favour for roughly 1-2 hours a week? The outcry would be just as strong as it is at the moment with the Europeans.

Personally, I think the WaW idea is a good one, but badly implemented. there should not be any restriction to any part of the game for anyone simply due to the server they play on. The best ideas so far have been to adjust the cost of entering UW/FoW depending on how close your locality is to getting favour (Still promotes the WaW idea but without complete restriction for these areas), Changing the grouping so that it's not Korea vs. USA vs. Europe, but a Grenth vs Balthazaar vs Lyssa vs. Melandru etc. type competition. (Of course, there is still the chance of a more minor group being affiliated with a particular god, but the idea has merit and does away with nationalism), or finally, and most simply, either consolidate Europe with America so that the WaW is an "East vs West" competition, or do away with it altogether.

michaeldt · Aug 10, 2005, 02:55 PM // 14:55

a team of 8 players wins the hall of heroes. not the whole region. numbers dont make a difference!!!