Curse

jdwoody · Aug 15, 2005, 01:51 PM // 13:51

I will try it again w/ just henchies. Like I said in my initial post, I know alot of the strategies, the problem is that I have no control over either the henchies or another human to use the catapults. I also already said that I believe my ranger (or my monk for that matter) could use all henchies as I find they are much easier to control from the back.

My biggest problem is we have a discussion before the mission starts. Someone says that team will follow a certain strategy, one or two people agree and we go on. If the group is even just average we can usually clear the stadium, but then the trouble begins. It's usually me and one other person doing catpults and everyone else is standing in the middle of the stadium getting ready to run to either side. The first couple of waves they are ok, but then they miss a jade or two, the jades bypass everyone in the party and head straight for the king. Afterwards I always ask why the people in the middle didn't follow the plan and they usually say they don't think the catapults work well, and/or one time they didn't guard the King and they won it so they didn't like that strategy. Why they choose to tell us that *AFTER* the mission is already a failure is beyond me.

Also while I wouldn't mind splitting up the team to watch each door instead of guarding the stairs, I've found that if you have 2 henchmen healers (and when I'm on 90% of the groups are 2 henchmen healers) they tend to spend alot more time running between the groups and less time healing. (Which is why when there are 2 hench healers I like to guard the stairs) So when it's all henchies I last longer staying with the King and trying to keep things at the bottom of the stairs, but if I engage one side and jades come up the other side it's all over. If the King took "normal" damage like everyone else in the party this would be recoverable, as it is it is not.

Kai Nui, if you truly believe the King is infused then please try this, put away your staff or rod and pull out a sword, do the glitch and engage a set of 3 jades. The jades will run around everyone in your group, spectral agony the King and he is dead in 5 seconds. As a monk you might be able to heal him fast enough, but the henchies don't.

Vladmoney · Aug 15, 2005, 02:09 PM // 14:09

I hate when people complain on hardness of game, deal with it. Not everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. All the missions are so easy already. Thunderhead was the only mission i had a hard time passing, and i enjoyed it.

Howling Wind · Aug 15, 2005, 02:10 PM // 14:10

You know I find the king funny, when I first did the mission for the first time and saw the king on allies list, i thought "nice I get a high lvl ally to help me out, should be the best players out of all the henchies" but boy did I not know he was stupid... ended up failing the mission the first time because of him. A slightly better AI that makes him more survival-aware and keeps him close to the party or a feature that lets you tell him to "stay" (but still atk if enemies come) would be nice instead of babysitting him.

emil knight · Aug 15, 2005, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

There is no pleasing you is there? It's possible with every class, and I'll say why.

Not when YOU haven't done it with each class! As I said, you actually trying beating it with each class, then come back. You can't say you know it's "possible" if you've never actualy tried it.

Warrior - proved And why is it proved? Because you are tanking for the king and the henchmen will follow rather closely. Being that close to the king makes it easier to find his target and take it down.

Monk - proved Duh, you can heal the king yourself.

Elementalist - Same reason as warrior, you just sit and FIGHT, it's not hard
Mesmer - Interrupt spells and FIGHT, it's not that hard
Necromancer - They can heal and there's so much dead stuff you're not going to lose lol
Ranger - Pets to tank which you can heal, spirits, tanks, long range weaponry, etc...

Only if you get up in the enemy's face which is not smart for an El, Mesmer or Necro. Rangers have the best armor of these, but they still make mediocre tanks at best. The alternative is hope Devona and Thom can do it sufficiently... even infused this isn't always likely. You need to defeat each group as it's coming in as quickly as possibly and once you get a boss that becomes more difficult. Pets are mostly useless on this mission. Spirits won't help you in the middle of a battle because while you are taking time to cast them things could go south real quick, and don't last long against these guys anyway. Necros have wells for healing, but they require bodies and those bodies would need to be close to the king to be useful on him... and that's not the idea is it? Mesmer and interrupts? Tell me how to interrupt a Jade Bow or Jade Armor... they don't use spells!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

The point is, the warrior above said the King didn't get touched, and when I was a Me/Mo with monk skills I didn't have to heal the king often because I let a few slip through a few times. It's very possible with other classes to do the same thing. If you don't think it is, bring a loyal Monk friend along or something with all henchies and then do it. It's really not hard with henchmen. People muck it up like he said.

The point is you can bring Monk healing to this fight ON YOU and you could win. You try it with another build and it may not go as smoothly as you think. The henchmen are not smart enough to know the king shouldn't die, and unless you are there to back them up with a little healing yourself, this mission could tank quickly.

Again... I never said it COULDN'T be done, but it is EXTREMELY difficult. It require skill and ALOT of luck. You are honestly better off with a group of humans where they all KNOW the king can't die and will do whatever they can to prevent that.

jdwoody · Aug 15, 2005, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vladmoney

I hate when people complain on hardness of game, deal with it. Not everything should be handed to you on a silver platter. All the missions are so easy already. Thunderhead was the only mission i had a hard time passing, and i enjoyed it.

I hate it when people don't even try to understand the point of a suggestion in a suggestion forum, but instead just post a troll.

I didn't ask for a silver platter, I don't mind hard and I've finished it a number of times. Like I said in my initial post, I dont' mind long missions, I don't mind missions that end with a single mistake, I don't mind missions you can't skip and I don't mind missions that you can't control aggro. My problem is Thunderhead is all 4 at the same time. I enjoy playing guild wars, when I think about trying Thunderhead again I dred playing it. If you like the mission I'm happy for you I don't see how infusing the King will make it less fun for you.

Esprit · Aug 15, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

I've never had trouble with the king at the top of the fort. I've fought with a Monk and Elementalist, and camped the king both times, without the mursaat attacking him.

It would be nice for the king to be infused. One of my groups went outside, using the gate glitch, and fought the Jades. The king had decided to stick on a warrior and all of a sudden we saw him with massive health spikes and both monks healing like crazy. Yeah, we almost lost the mission by trying to get the advantage...

Maxiemonster · Aug 15, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

No. Make Thunderhead Keep even harder, and also the Ring of Fire missions. And then also gives us some nice features for playing the full storyline. At least then there's a reason for completing Thunderhead Keep, since there's not..

jdwoody · Aug 15, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

For me the Ring of Fire missions are different since you don't have the King factor and you can control the aggro. In those missions even when things go wrong, if someone can escape and rez the party you can continue, though it is harder with the DP (as it should be).

I would also be fine making thunderhead harder as long as the King is infused. Having 3 monks in party keeping him alive isn't an option in this instance when I'm a warrior w/ henchies...

BigTru · Aug 15, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

I don't think the mission needs any changes. This game is easiest enough as is, IMO. The Mursaat never reach the king when I do the mission, and I always do it with henchman.

Zubrowka · Aug 15, 2005, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by emil knight

Second, lets talk about your "formula". First off you left one out. You have 7 people there and not 8. Elementalist are great on this map if they are nukers and the MOBs are stopped at the gates. That's why people use that kind of set-up. In the absence of that, 2 warriors and 2 HEALERS are a must. I say healers because having two MONKS is not a requirement. Also, people who believe Necros, Mesmers or Rangers aren't required are flawed in their thinking. Each of them have skills that can be quite helpful.

Well, people usually start with the fixed formula, then add either a ranger, necro, or mesmer.

I'm not saying elementalists are useless. But for AoE to be effective, you need your warriors to pin the enemies down, meaning they can't retreat even when they health is low. That in turn means you must have healers on the team. Hence the fixed formula. It works well enough when enemies are just standing around waiting. In Thunderhead Keep, when the situation is more fluid, it doesn't work as well.

I got through the mission on the first try on a ranger heavy team with two protection monks without great difficulty, so I hardly think you must have two healers and a bunch of warriors. Every team could be effective if people just adjust their strategy and tactics. If your monks are using a lot of buffs, then symbiosis would work wonder, for example. If your team has no monks, then it's a good idea to bring well of blood and other healing spells.

My Me/N is still having trouble getting through the mission with henchmen. The king always end up dying before we take the fort. He's a goner whenever he's hexed twice, since I can only lift one. As soon as I find shatter hex I will give it another try.

emil knight · Aug 15, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zubrowka

My Me/N is still having trouble getting through the mission with henchmen. The king always end up dying before we take the fort. He's a goner whenever he's hexed twice, since I can only lift one. As soon as I find shatter hex I will give it another try.

This is the EXACT problem I am having. He charges in, aggros EVERYTHING, and there isn't much I can do to keep the hexes off him, especially when the hench monks aren't even bothering to heal him.

Were I a monk I could probably out heal the damage the hexes do, but as a Mesmer I can't destroy enough hexes to keep him alive.

Zubrowka · Aug 15, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

My plan is to take just one monk so that I can kill more quickly. Durham likes to use slow down spells, which should keep the King from being ganged up so often. I would choose Lina over Mhenlo. The protection monk's logic seems to be to cast enchantment on whoever being attacked. The healer logic, as far as I can deduce, is to heal the team member with the lowest health, and if every member is healthy, heal any ally or pet. And she carries shield of regeneration, which provides pretty decent healing should it become necessary.

emil knight · Aug 15, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I tried it twice... once with everyone except Aidan, the second time with everyong but Dunham. Both times I died right in the same spot. Trying to get those last two groups near the boss. He runs up close and gets nailed with hexes that I can't clear fast enough. If I get too close then I risk aggroing the other group or the boss which I naturally don't want. With the henchmen, there seems to be no way to isolate just one group here, you get two or all three of them at the same time.