Curse

-malachi- · Aug 17, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Ok so I decided to switch my secondary profession awhile after ascension...but having used most of my skill points on my primary and first secondary proffessions leaves me with basically living in UW or FoW for skill points. And Doing the math,from the 400,000 something experience I have now to 2 million expereince yeilds only 80 skill points...somewhat impressive but none the less very time consuming, that is only if I get a non idiot group that lasts the first few quests everytime. I'm not saying skill points are extremely hard to come by, but it would be nice to be able to maybe go back and have some quests besides the ones in/around ascalon to give you skills for your new secondary, maybe one in each town? I know it doesnt take to long to get a new character up and running but, I have a lot invested in this character, runes, customized armor and weapons,etc. so I think it would be nice if there was a better way to change your secondary without doing UW/FoW 24/7.

and sorry if this topic was already touched on I tried my best to find it and couldn't...

emil knight · Aug 17, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by -malachi-

Ok so I decided to switch my secondary profession awhile after ascension...but having used most of my skill points on my primary and first secondary proffessions leaves me with basically living in UW or FoW for skill points. And Doing the math,from the 400,000 something experience I have now to 2 million expereince yeilds only 80 skill points...somewhat impressive but none the less very time consuming, that is only if I get a non idiot group that lasts the first few quests everytime. I'm not saying skill points are extremely hard to come by, but it would be nice to be able to maybe go back and have some quests besides the ones in/around ascalon to give you skills for your new secondary, maybe one in each town? I know it doesnt take to long to get a new character up and running but, I have a lot invested in this character, runes, customized armor and weapons,etc. so I think it would be nice if there was a better way to change your secondary without doing UW/FoW 24/7.

and sorry if this topic was already touched on I tried my best to find it and couldn't...

Ok, I guess my first question is... did you do the side quests BEFORE you started using skill points?

Don't get me wrong... I know some of the side quests suck, but you don't have to spend any points to get those skills unlocked. Without buying any skills, by the time I reached level 20 I had around 40 skill points. I bought maybe 4-5 capture signets for the skills that sounded interesting enough to warrant them, then used most of the rest to start unlocking my third profession. I bought only skills that might really be useful to me in the coming missions and in PvP and still have a few points to spare.

Granted, there was no way I could unlock ALL the skills for that third, but that's part of the idea. You aren't SUPPOSED to be able to unlock half the skills in the game with just one guy unless you've logged hundreds of hours and a couple million (or more) XP. The idea here is to get you to create multiple characters with different skill sets to unlock skills. If you create 3 W/Mo with the intention of changing their secondaries and buying up all the skills you don't have, it won't happen. And it was DESIGNED that way.

Sorry, you need to create another guy and go through the game again if you want those unlocks, and in the future you need to be a little more selective with your skill points.

-malachi- · Aug 17, 2005, 03:53 AM // 03:53

and I have I am on my third time through..2 level 20s completly unrelated primary/secondaries (and am working on a third). and no I did not spend all my skill points, I did all the quests I could find. I'm just the kind of person who has to unlock all of the skills for one proffession no matter how dumb they sound...I just dont want to start over to get my N/E to a N/Mo, not unlock all the skills with only one character.

emil knight · Aug 17, 2005, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by -malachi-

and I have I am on my third time through..2 level 20s completly unrelated primary/secondaries (and am working on a third). and no I did not spend all my skill points, I did all the quests I could find. I'm just the kind of person who has to unlock all of the skills for one proffession no matter how dumb they sound...I just dont want to start over to get my N/E to a N/Mo, not unlock all the skills with only one character.

So you're saying you want a FULL PvE third profession? Once you've gone through the majority of the missions as one thing, what would be the point of gaining all the skills for a new profession? If you want a PvP of a certain type, make two primaries of the two skills you want, run them through all the missions, then create your ideal PvP guy.

Sorry, I still don't see the merit of being able to unlock ALL the skills for a third profession for a PvE toon.

-malachi- · Aug 17, 2005, 04:18 AM // 04:18

nah used most of my skill points unlocking primary... just wanted a feasable secondary....o well I guess I will just make a new character again... but now I have to delete one which i hate doing....or buy another account. Wish pvp characters did not take up slots..oh well

emil knight · Aug 17, 2005, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by -malachi-

nah used most of my skill points unlocking primary... just wanted a feasable secondary....o well I guess I will just make a new character again... but now I have to delete one which i hate doing....or buy another account. Wish pvp characters did not take up slots..oh well

Exactly as I said, you simply need to be more selective with what you spend your skill points on. This isn't Pokemon.. you don't "gotta have them all!" Some skills simple don't work as well as others in certain settings. My primary is a Ranger, and I'm not partial to the whole Beast Mastery line. I have a few skills that I unlocked thorugh quests and maybe 1 or 2 I bought, but I simply don't see the merit (for me) in going Beast Master (that's simply my view, I'm sure others see it and do well with the build, but my playstyle is different and Beast Mastery doesn't fit well with how I play).

I'm not fond of deleting and starting over either... in fact I have 3 toons I may never delete... the 4th slot only recently got axed and that took me a while to do... I really wanted to try a PvP only guy and I just HAD to kill one of them... Now that slot is my "throwaway" toon. I've deleted it several times recently because I've unlocked something new and wanted to try it in a build.

Just remember.. unlocking is mostly for PvP... don't get hung up on the "perfect class" idea... you'll never acheive that in a single toon... unless you plan to spend ALOT of time playing that one guy...

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 17, 2005, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by emil knight

.....
Granted, there was no way I could unlock ALL the skills for that third, but that's part of the idea. You aren't SUPPOSED to be able to unlock half the skills in the game with just one guy unless you've logged hundreds of hours and a couple million (or more) XP. The idea here is to get you to create multiple characters with different skill sets to unlock skills. If you create 3 W/Mo with the intention of changing their secondaries and buying up all the skills you don't have, it won't happen. And it was DESIGNED that way..

I'm with Malachi and have a similar thread going here.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...729#post394729

And how do you know it was DESIGNED that way? I thought it was based upon skills and acquiring those skills. I have read several places that the idea of the combat system was loosely based on Magic: The Gathering, you know the COLLECTABLE card game, and that was stated by one of the dev's.

I'd like to see where you got your absolute, "it was DESIGNED that way" from.

stone cold monkey grip · Aug 17, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Emil, as you say, be selective in the skills you unlock and only unlock the ones that are useful.

I see that as stifling creativity, and also contributing to "flavor of the month-itis". Maybe if our ascended chars had access to all secondary skills unlocked on the account we wouldn't have these huge trends in builds, not everyone for every class just the ones for the secondary you are currently using.

I see only benefits and no negatives, for one we would have alot more variety in builds and we wouldn't have "flavors".

just my 2cents that's worth about half of that.......

Sofonisba · Aug 17, 2005, 03:25 PM // 15:25

If you are attempting to unlock skills for your pvp chars, then just go get faction... can be used for skills, no?

-malachi- · Aug 17, 2005, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Although the secondary change would be nice to bring pve characters into pvp, it is just easier and better to use pvp characters for pvp. I am talking about pve characters here, I think that it would be nice to actually switch your secondary proffession and be able to have enough skills in it to have viable options, other than running around buying only the skills you need for a certain build. I like stone cold monkey's idea to have all unlocked skills useable on your ascended character once you ascened and do the switch secondaries quest. As of now this option just seems mostly like a rushed option to me. If I grow tired of my current secondary in pve shouldn't I be able to switch it and be able to get enough skills to have more options then just one prethought build without starting over..again?

emil knight · Aug 18, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by stone cold monkey grip

And how do you know it was DESIGNED that way? I thought it was based upon skills and acquiring those skills. I have read several places that the idea of the combat system was loosely based on Magic: The Gathering, you know the COLLECTABLE card game, and that was stated by one of the dev's.

I'd like to see where you got your absolute, "it was DESIGNED that way" from.

Ummm... I know it was designed that way because that's how it IS. I don't think they coded the game to do something entirely different and this just popped up.

And as you've said, it was LOOSELY based on Magic. Their basic idea was that a combination of skills could win battles, but no one skill would be a gamebreaker all by itself. I read that in an article someone posted here recently...

-malachi- · Aug 18, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

this was not intended as a post to say that I wish that I could unlock ALL the skills for pvp with only one character...I am merely saying that it would have been nice to be able to use the switch your secondary quests/option to actually switch my secondary. As it stands now I will most probably have to axe a character that i have invested over 200 hours on to simply change the secondary. It is a nice gesture but it only works for specific builds. I have just realized over the play time that a different secondary suits my play style better. There should be a way to let me change my secondary and get enough skills to not make it worth making another character. Please don't turn this thread into I'm right/"they said" ordeal.Maybe i should have just made a petition.

emil knight · Aug 18, 2005, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Listen, you're trying to justify one thing by asking for another. You want to be able to unlock all the skills (or a majority anyway) for a second profession, right?

Ok, in order to do that, they would need to separate gaining PvE skills from PvP entirely. That would change the entire game. So basically what you are asking (and what a previous poster asked just yesterday in a different way), is to change the game to fit the way YOU PLAY.

Ain't gonna happen. ANet was trying to go a different route and it obviously isn't the way some people like. Personally, this way doesn't bother me. I have a R/Mo that started as a PvE guy and I use him for PvP. I do fine with him. If I had the desire to have a different secondary, I have a PvP slot open, and enough skills unlocked for other profession that I could build him. Even the couple secondaries I HAVE choosen and gotten skills for I only use 1 or two at a time. I'm a ranger first and foremost... not a monk, mesmer, etc. I don't need a bunch of skills from another class. A select few is all that are necessary to flesh out a new build.

-malachi- · Aug 18, 2005, 03:30 AM // 03:30

once again this isnt about unlocking skills for pvp. I would be fine if i could change secondaries and not unlock anything for pvp. I just dont really want to start over to change my secondary for pve. I already know how you feel about this so go flame someother post, I would like to hear from someone else now.

PieXags · Aug 18, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

My necro's changed his secondary 6 times, unlocked all normal skills for all professions except the monk class...and I never play that so don't intend to get them. I adore the whole changing secondary thing.

juice5/O · Aug 18, 2005, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by emil knight

Listen, I have no life.

see, now we can all have fun with quotes

it seems to me that, for all you invaluable insight into the very minds of this fine game's creators, that you have been able to nance around mariachi's original question. if you don't know how to answer the question, then go away... because no one really cares if you are the bestestest guildwars pokemon heroine in the world. truth be told i figure your insight into the game comes from stalking the programmers. tell me, do they prefer boxers or briefs. not that i care, but i figure it will fuel your ego to demonstrate you know even more than everyother person who frequents these fine message boards.

i think the suggestion is valid, and should at least be discussed before you dismiss the idea because it didn't come directly from the programmers themselves. and further more, playing games is about having fun, my suggestion to you is to put down the laptop my friend, and grab a lager at your local pub. you know the one that exists in real life on the corner of a downtown street. because once you get a taste of the (real) good life you will understand why no one wants to waste time playing a game for a million years to get the skills they need to play a game they have fun playing.

-malachi- · Aug 18, 2005, 04:42 AM // 04:42

I like the system as well PieXags, I just dont think that it prevents well from having to grind through the whole game again if you realize you should have had a different secondary. I know that it was not meant to be easy, so maybe some sort of price should be implenented, maybe keep the devs option to switch and add one for people to completely change their secondary, loosing all skill points one had for the first secondary. Or maybe incur a price to change your secondary. I just hate to have to grind again to just change to a secondary i have already unlocked many skills for with other characters.

emil knight · Aug 18, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by juice5/O

see, now I'm a TROLL!

Yes... lets have fun with quotes, shall we?

Anyway, to get back to the OP which you seemed to have ignored yourself when you decided to TROLL ME, let's answer the question AGAIN shall we?

IN ORDER to allow each player to get all the skills for a second profession easily and make them useable in PvE, they have to be separarted from PvP entirely. As I said in a previous post which you didn't bother to read, obviously, THIS WOULD CHANGE THE GAME ENTIRELY.

The game was DESIGNED with PvE and PvP closely linked. I don't have to be a "programmer stalker" to SEE that.

They wanted you to play through the game several times as several differnet classes. They obviously never intended people to play through the game as the same toon over and over again just to unlcok all the skills for all the professions.

I understand that the OP doesn't care about PvP and only wants the skills for PvE, but once you've gotten through that much of the game as one secondary, having a different one to do more PvE is rather pointless. how many UW/FoW runs can you do with the same guy before you get sick of it? Oh wait... then you would become a farmer... I GET IT NOW!

I smite thee troll, begone.

-malachi- · Aug 19, 2005, 01:24 AM // 01:24

actually what i was saying was that i would like to change my secondary well and not have to farm UW or FoW.

juice5/O · Aug 19, 2005, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by emil knight

Knights of Virginity... assemble

you are the troll, troll. isn't it enough that you nance your way through these forums like your ideas are the only ones worth discussion and no one else's idea is worthy of even the slightest discourse. i'm sorry, i forgot this was the game you programmed and not Anet. go ahead then, stifle any and all analysis. make sure to silence all dissenters in your clandestine effort to portray guildwars to be the perfectest "out of the box game" ever. the fact of the matter is you slam every thread's basic idea to the point that other members barely respond to your own threads because they are afraid being picked apart by your fuzzy logic.

four threads, only two even got responses... time to get an attitude adjustment buster. maybe then people will want to talk to you... maybe.