Curse

Xploit · Aug 22, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperJ24

very good point indeed.

if there was no pvp , then ppl wouldnt be complaining about the 105/55 farming builds.

and i think when the frog says nerf, he is talking more about pvp aspect of the game. as to there are a few "holding" builds that have very few counters for them, and if you make a build just to counter it, it would be very hard to play agasint the average team you face.

Theres not gonna be a pvp nerf, its easy to counter heal balls or anything, toss in meteor shower or chillblains or maelstrom or w/e skill that works, dont even need points in fire or water, just have the the skills for the knockdowns and interupts.

claytonk · Aug 23, 2005, 12:28 AM // 00:28

http://files.filefront.com/Frog_MOB/.../fileinfo.html

YEAH

tastegw · Aug 23, 2005, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xploit

Theres not gonna be a pvp nerf, its easy to counter heal balls or anything, toss in meteor shower or chillblains or maelstrom or w/e skill that works, dont even need points in fire or water, just have the the skills for the knockdowns and interupts.

i wasnt talkin bout healin balls.

not at all.

im talkin bout the way you cant walk thru spirits and balancing them out some.

if your in hoh often then you know what im talkin bout.

relic runs and the "halls" in the hall of heroes being blocked by multiple spirits and or spammers.

there are many ways to counter spirit spammers yes, but does every build need to have this counter in their build in order to be able to compete? if so then i dont think i want to play much more of this game.

i like variety, and i dont want to have to counter the same thing all day long, day after day.

let us walk thru spirits and ill be happy.

sturmdogg · Aug 24, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

I'm a PVP newbie, so bear with me but, what exactly is the problem with Nature's Renewal and spirit spammers in general?

Is it because you cant walk through them? Or is it because of their effects?

I would think that because they're spirits, they really shouldnt be able to block players, right?

If it's their effects, well I would think they went through extensive testing in the betas so why complain about it now?

i'm not trying to start something, just wanted to explain it to me..thanks.

DrSLUGFly · Aug 24, 2005, 05:16 AM // 05:16

For me it's mostly being unable to walk through them... they make walls around critical areas

Also, there's the issue of fertile season, but that's not a spam it's a single spirit. And that's a problem not for devs but for players who need to discover a way around it.

Rossaroni · Aug 24, 2005, 06:10 AM // 06:10

People see the 105/55 build in a distorted light. I run one, and to me it's one of the most fragile builds in the game. He has 55 health. He is extremely limited in what he can do, it just so happens that in that small area of things he can do, he can do them very well. He doesn't have the survivability that a warrior can have with stances, healing signet, and a good set of secondary self-healing skills (N/W ftw!). Have you ever seen a 55 monk farm the Grawl outside of Port Sledge? No? That's because they can't do it. However, there are other classes and builds that can--one I know of uses a ranger. (What, you thought I'd give it away?)

Nothing needs nerfing. 55 monks aren't hurting anyone. Spirit spam builds aren't hurting anyone--I've seen guild groups slaughter spirit groups. The best build takes everything into account and doesn't assume anything--which is another way of saying they assume everything. It just so happened that at one time, spirit spammers caught the majority of the other popular builds off guard. Same with air spikers, same with smiters, etc. etc.

[Edit: Well, actually that explination of PvP was rather shallow. There's way more to it than that, but I'm just going for a generalization here.]

Serpreme · Aug 31, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

ya your about a week too late. its been nerfed and anet now shows that no matter how much you work on a good build,they'll do everything in their power to stop it. Its like going around clubbing the smart people.

Aracos79 · Aug 31, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpreme

they'll do everything in their power to stop it.

Everything in their power? NR/Spirit Spam has been a known problem for over a month (longer in NR's case if you believe what some of the alphas have said). ANet took a very measured response to the problem. They didn't jump to conclusions and make snap changes. They studied the problems, made in-house adjustments, and tested them before releasing them into the game. I think it was a very even-keeled response.

*Deploys flame shield to deflect "u r a carebear" flames*

Theos · Aug 31, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossaroni

People see the 105/55 build in a distorted light. I run one, and to me it's one of the most fragile builds in the game. He has 55 health. He is extremely limited in what he can do, it just so happens that in that small area of things he can do, he can do them very well. He doesn't have the survivability that a warrior can have with stances, healing signet, and a good set of secondary self-healing skills (N/W ftw!). Have you ever seen a 55 monk farm the Grawl outside of Port Sledge? No? That's because they can't do it. However, there are other classes and builds that can--one I know of uses a ranger. (What, you thought I'd give it away?)

Nothing needs nerfing. 55 monks aren't hurting anyone. Spirit spam builds aren't hurting anyone--I've seen guild groups slaughter spirit groups. The best build takes everything into account and doesn't assume anything--which is another way of saying they assume everything. It just so happened that at one time, spirit spammers caught the majority of the other popular builds off guard. Same with air spikers, same with smiters, etc. etc.

[Edit: Well, actually that explination of PvP was rather shallow. There's way more to it than that, but I'm just going for a generalization here.]

Why would the invici build not work on grawl? Ofcourse it will, drop balth aura and spam boon. The grawl go one after the other not all at once so they will remove boon. Big woop.

IceD'Bear · Aug 31, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpreme

Its like going around clubbing the smart people.

The smart people were not (much) affected with this change, but those who simply copied the build were.
The smart ones already have new builds, while the others whine on the forums.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 31, 2005, 10:48 AM // 10:48

IceD'Bear: I'm pretty sure Serpreme used 'smart people' = people who go to websites to copy exploits other people have found.

For people who think that's being smart, closing exploits, like ANet did when they fixed Protective Bond, is like clubbing smart people. See the logic?

Arcanis Imperium · Aug 31, 2005, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Heh, pretty much true.

But you have to understand, Anet wants a game where everyone has a fair chance to do all the same things. If one or two skills in a class become too powerful, or if a certain build does what all others cant, then they're gonna nerf it to balance out the equation again.

Whether or not these changes remain permanent, only time will tell.