Curse

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

This is STILL horrible. A team could easily be comprised of 3 monks and a battle mage. There would be no way to lose.

How would the team deal any damage other than smites? How are those smites going to cause enough damage without compromising the ability to protect the battlemage from getting overwhelmed by damage? How are the monks going to stop an enemy ranger from dazing the battlemage with his three second cast symbols? Remember, the battlemage can't cast spells while the symbols are in effect, and the summoned weapons don't deal nearly as much damage as warrior ones, since they don't have the +20% customization bonus NOR the +15% >hp50 bonus, PLUS they can be dispelled.

So you're seeing MINISCULE damage output from the battlemage, which is fine, because he's a tank and not a damager, one of those monks need to keep the battlemage from keeling over under all that damage, and so now you're down with 2 monks smiting to deal damage. The battlemage, as of the moment, has no way of buffing holy damage, so he's not doing any indirect damage either.

So now you've got 2 monks without support smiting against a team that's devoting nothing except a TF normal shot-quickshot-normal shot-quickshot with the occasional concussion shot slammed in shutting down TWO of your characters.

That's NOT a balanced team. That's not even CLOSE to a balanced team. That's a flawless victory for the other team because they're using one player to shut down two of yours and you can't do jack about it because

1. You can't do damage
2. You can't interrupt
3. Shutdown? Nope.
4. Sustained DPS? Nope.
5. Adren spike that ranger? Nope.
6. Snares? Nope.

and

7. You're screwed.

Kai Nui · Aug 22, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

So, this is still impractical for PVE, and let me modify that by having something like this:

Battle Mage/Monk
Warrior/Monk
Monk/Mesmer
Elementalist/Monk

There could be a lot of combinations, the battle mage allows you to have one person taking the damage, one or two people healing that person and another 1 or 2 people to deal damage. It's really not that tough. They won't have to run away because, Hey! They're not taking any damage.

EDIT:

Also, just because your scenario worked out like it did, doesn't mean it will every single time. Perhaps maybe once or twice, but it won't happen all the time. You're giving one MINISCULE (haha) example of how they could be shut down.

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

So, this is still impractical for PVE,

Balancing for PvE is *MUCH* easier than balancing for PvP.

Quote:

and let me modify that by having something like this:

Battle Mage/Monk
Warrior/Monk
Monk/Mesmer
Elementalist/Monk

There could be a lot of combinations, the battle mage allows you to have one person taking the damage, one or two people healing that person and another 1 or 2 people to deal damage. It's really not that tough. They won't have to run away because, Hey! They're not taking any damage.

Who says the ai enemies have to attack the battlemage? They don't. The ai enemies are usually of a higher level than your players (unlike PvP) and would have no problems following their normal routine and just snipe out your supports based on armor class, like they currently do. They have enough hp that the extra buffs from the battlemage won't bother them and they'll have little problem playing under that sort of card. They'll have enough energy (500 energy musaat monk boss anyone?) that the e-denial won't bother them either. You're sacrificing one char slot to the battlemage. That means one char slot less for damage, damage prevention, or damage recovery. Since that battlemage can throw up one symbol at a time, he'll only be able to benefit ONE of your characters. That's not a very big effect at all!

PLUS, when fighting mes enemies that spam hexes, most teams have trouble getting up a firestorm or meteorshower. Imagine trying to get a 3 second cast symbol up when you're right up there with the warriors.

As for PvE balance in general right now... What balance? Balance as in a single Mo/W with 55 hp can take on every single monster in the hardest area of the game singlehandedly? Yeah right.

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

EDIT:

Also, just because your scenario worked out like it did, doesn't mean it will every single time. Perhaps maybe once or twice, but it won't happen all the time. You're giving one MINISCULE (haha) example of how they could be shut down.

When was the last time you played tombs or GvG when the enemy team didn't bring in at least one sustained dps'er, be it qs ranger, stone dagger spammer, smite monk, flurry ranger, an INTERRUPTOR, an anticaster, or fragility build me? Any ONE of those classes will be able to counter the battlemage.

Please name a team build involving the battlemage that would make it overpowered against a team that you would normally expect in tombs or GvG. With a little skill and nuance, a team build centered around two or three battlemages could effectively shut down a spirit build, if the team was played with skill.

On the other hand, the same team build would get obliterated by a QS build or a smite team.

The first potentially overpowering team I can think of would be

2 battlemages and 6 quickshot rangers.

The 2 battlemages throw up Symbol of Fire and Pain (not easy, considering Pain requires adrenaline), and the 6 QS rangers run kindle QS spam under zephyr. That would be a hell of a spiking team.

However, it could easily be countered by shielding hands and aoe's against the bunched up rangers, not to mention spirit spam.

Edit: Sorry, double post.

johnnylange · Aug 22, 2005, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

What does that have to do with tanking? Tanking is the ability to draw fire away from your support classes onto yourself without seriously hampering your functionality on the battlefield. Absorb runes don't exactly paint a "HIT ME" sign on the warrior. In fact, it pretty much paints the exact opposite.

Monks have a skill that convert damage to themselves and necros can sacrifice life to aid the party in battle. Along with warriors this pretty much covered in a sense.

Mithie · Aug 23, 2005, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnylange

Monks have a skill that convert damage to themselves and necros can sacrifice life to aid the party in battle. Along with warriors this pretty much covered in a sense.

UH.... no.

Sorry, in retrospect, that was a bit rude. Necro sacrifices have nothing to do with tanking

Monk's essence bond costs a skill slot and seriously detracts him from performing his 1 on 1 support or smite duties. Also, persist enchant builds are next to impossible to run in today's metagame.

None of these two classes are able to draw damage to themselves. Neither of these classes can be built into effective tanks.