Curse

[email protected] · Aug 22, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

This is where I disagree with you. There are no "oddball skills" in GW. There are only skills which complement other skills on your skillbar. For example, the mesmer hex "Fragility" might seem like an oddball skill. Does damage only when they're conditioned? Hmm... Sounds kinda useless, right? Well, what if I put Fragility on my skill bar plus 4 or 5 other skills that DO cause condition, many of those would be considered "oddball skills" too? Slap in a res signet and I'm good to go with my build.

In summation: if a skill seems like an oddball skill, just surround it with a combination of skills that would make the oddball skill useful.

The signet of capture offers you the power of potentially having TWO elite powers on your power bar AT THE SAME TIME!!! Well worth the skill slot, I think.

You're loading your skill bar with attack and defense skills? That's where you're going wrong. There are many roles in GW. Those roles include damager, interruptor, anti-caster, damage prevention, damage reduction, buff, hex, tanking (in PvE only), health-to-energy conversion, energy-to-health conversion, spiking, sustained dps, etc, etc. The game is setup such that you can only relegate yourself to ONE of these roles. If you're having both attack and defense skills on your skillbar, then you're not playing out your role to the maximum. Find the role your character is good at then load him/her up with the skills which support that role to its fullest. That's Guild Wars. If you're a guy whose role is to deal out damage, let the guy on your team whose role is damage prevention or damage recovery to keep yourself alive. That's his job.

The only thing you need to keep you and your team alive is your teammate specializing in doing just that.

Mithie,
Sorry, you may get me to covert somewhat on your against "rest in midmission" idea, but not the xtra two skills idea. When I say attack and defense I ment actualy pretty much "Everything"... You are either hindering an opponent, or you protecting/helping yourself or others (Defense) no matter how you really look at the class or skill in battle (not be technical here)... Doesn't matter if you mesmer or not or if you combining skills or not... As far as the skill slots, like I said, you coud put a restriction on those slots for just signet rings if you think its to much but I still want a little more flexibility. Most Rpg games can allow anywhere for 24 to 36 quick slots for powers. Heck, all I am asking here is two more slots (at total of 10) here people (even with restrictions if you like for only signet rings)- give me a break Mithie- I certainly am trying to meet you half here already in this argument, I can't really give you anymore than that from my standpoint... Also keep in mind that everyone get this potential including allies and enemies I presume. So its not like my "EGO" is going to be massaged by "ME" getting two more slots and me designing the whole game around me (As someone else has also indicated in a previous most- not Mithie- not indicated to you). I just want to have a little more flexibility...

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

Mithie,
I just want to have a little more flexibility...

Unlike other RPGs, GW is a game where teamwork trumps everything else.

There's no reason for you to be flexible. You're there to deal with one specific situation.

Your teammates are there to deal with everything else.

Calimar · Aug 22, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

jalday:
-- sig of capture is very powerful, and the tradeoff is important. It's part of the risk in going on capture missions.
-- This is not an RPG. The point in GW is the PvE/PvP being linked together. PvE is what you're looking at. If it were an RPG, it would be like EQ, WoW, or whatever, with lots of weird items, stuff to do and so on. GW PvE revolves around 2 things: unlock skills, unlock items. After that, it's make your build, kill the opponent. simple? yep. But fun for years if you ask me. There's no place in this game concept for dozens of skills, and it's not about "shortcuts" - it was a clean decision on the game devs part.

Mithie: I don't agree on flexibility - every character has a role, not just a specific situation. Damage dealing is the easiest role, so incredibly in GW the warrior is not the easiest character, the elementalist is. But one single situation is narrowing it a bit too much in my opinion. Still, if there were 10 skill, someone would want 15 - it's bound to happen. Me too would like more skills at times but... hey. I wouldn't have so much fun

IMHO.

BierStark · Aug 22, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

1.) It has the right amount of skills now, you have to plan
2.) Part of the challenge, making due with what you have... I have to say this doesn't fit very well within the game play
3.) I 100% agree... I'd love to have some awesome graphics on my new spells, attacks, besides just damage #'s. This is the one area of the game that really disappoints.

Teh Azman · Aug 22, 2005, 04:27 PM // 16:27

1) Ok everyone who wants to change the skill slots needs to get this through their heads: Anet thought through this heavily. They made 8 for the strategy and that the skills you chose would hopefully work together (which hopefully they do.)

2) No. This whole idea is far fetched and unrealistic for the way the game was designed: Strategy.

3) Sure why not, but does it really matter?

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Alright, about #3, how about this?

Devs: If you ever find yourself at a slow day of work, when you're done with everything you could possibly find the real need to do, and it's either find something to do or die of boredom, then maybe you could give us a few flashy animations.

Rayea · Aug 22, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

um, as far as i know, you are only alowed ONE elite skill in your skill bar at a time.

so its ether a sigent of capture or the skill itself.

and, unless you 100% KNOW exactly what your going up against, how are you going to know what skills to take? sure, take your standard skill bar and die, then learn from it, but sometimes, you dont get to go back to that area/mission ect for a while.

as to everyone else in the team is there to deal with everyting else....how they gona do that when they are all monks, nukers and tanks mostly?
sure, some tieams take one of each class when they can, and a spare takn and spare healer, but most teams just take tnks/healers and nukers in missions...

(though, personaly, i would like to see them HAVE to take more than just the big three)

Mithie · Aug 22, 2005, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

um, as far as i know, you are only alowed ONE elite skill in your skill bar at a time.

so its ether a sigent of capture or the skill itself.

Nope. You can get both. Carry an elite and the signet, and as soon as you capture it, you'll have both elites on your skillbar for the rest of the mission. For example, I had Grenth's Balance when I entered Hell's Precipice. Along the way, I capped Aura of the lich. I used the two elites together and did 800 damage to <boss> in one hit.

Epinephrine · Aug 22, 2005, 05:59 PM // 17:59

One of our guys has a shot of having 4 elites on his skillbar. You can get even higher of course, if you run around capping skills like mad. Makes you feel like trying to get 8 on there at once... Hmmmm

Rayea · Aug 22, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

good to know, then...

ok, maybe spots to rest in <large> missions and maps, then. places that you need to stop for a few mins while you slog through to wait while someone takes a pee break or nips downstairs for a rumage in the fridge/cupords for a snack. some maps are hard to do first time round without a snac or two, or bathroom break.

Rellok · Aug 22, 2005, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

One of our guys has a shot of having 4 elites on his skillbar. You can get even higher of course, if you run around capping skills like mad. Makes you feel like trying to get 8 on there at once... Hmmmm

I am not to the SoC point yet. But are you saying that you can put as many SoCs in your skillbar as you want? And then capture whatever you want? And the limit to elites in your skillbar only takes effect when you are adding skills from your list in town?

I imagine that this cannot be, it would offer all of the huge imbalances that the game is trying to protect against.

Or are you referring to using a buddy's elite? That's still only 2.

Back to the original post.
1. No
2. No
3. If it doesn't cause lag, or increase system req's for those on the lower end, fine. If so, I don't want it. I would rather have more people to play with/vs with little to no lag.

Matt

J_V_H · Aug 22, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Yeah number 3 is good. When I do some skills like conjure lighting I think... why isnt my axe engulfed in lightning?

same goes for conjure flame and frost. I don't know about your other ideas though.

KelvinC · Aug 23, 2005, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

The game is setup such that you can only relegate yourself to ONE of these roles.

The only thing you need to keep you and your team alive is your teammate specializing in doing just that.

Ok so your point is you want one role and high specialization. Don't you think one role is boring? Don't you want to have more than one role?

One role = pre-determined = no option = boring

Mithie · Aug 23, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by KelvinC

Ok so your point is you want one role and high specialization. Don't you think one role is boring? Don't you want to have more than one role?

One role = pre-determined = no option = boring

It's not boring. There's plenty of option: YOU GET TO PICK THE ROLE.

[email protected] · Aug 23, 2005, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calimar

jalday:
-- sig of capture is very powerful, and the tradeoff is important. It's part of the risk in going on capture missions.
-- This is not an RPG. The point in GW is the PvE/PvP being linked together. PvE is what you're looking at. If it were an RPG, it would be like EQ, WoW, or whatever, with lots of weird items, stuff to do and so on. GW PvE revolves around 2 things: unlock skills, unlock items. After that, it's make your build, kill the opponent. simple? yep. But fun for years if you ask me. There's no place in this game concept for dozens of skills, and it's not about "shortcuts" - it was a clean decision on the game devs part.

Mithie: I don't agree on flexibility - every character has a role, not just a specific situation. Damage dealing is the easiest role, so incredibly in GW the warrior is not the easiest character, the elementalist is. But one single situation is narrowing it a bit too much in my opinion. Still, if there were 10 skill, someone would want 15 - it's bound to happen. Me too would like more skills at times but... hey. I wouldn't have so much fun

IMHO.

As far as character always being boxed in a specific role, I don't agree with that perception either. The issue has come about many times in gameplay for me where a specific person you are relying on to be a healer, mesmer, etc becomes disabled (killed, tiedup, hindered, etc) --It just happens sometimes, despite all the strategy in the world. In these cases, the backup skills from secondary profession need to be there for other players (even if its one or two skills- examples a fighter/monk should have access to that one heal spell or resurrect spell, that elementalist/mesmer should have that backup spell remove a hex or enchantment spell depending on the scenario). After playing this game for awhile, I have found that even one more skill slot would allow me utilize a decent backup skill from my secondary class. Mithie is correct that people do general focus more heavily in one area with their 8 slots (usually there primary class). I know when I use an elementalist, I usually end of foregoing the xtra mesmer power that I would like to have, because I end up focusing the slots on the damaging/disabling attacks of the elementalist (That’s just for elementalist obviously, but that is one particular example). I have talked to everyone in my guild and they all would like an xtra slot or two (They also usually end up forgoing at least one or two skills they would really like to have but it’s importance is slightly overshadowed (and I mean slightly) by their mainstay choices. I understand the reliance on other member of the party “argument”, but even still, you sometimes have to rely on yourself if the battle goes arry- it is not a perfect setup (this is just reality guys, I am not trying to setup someone to take all the glory either).... I see that some of you are afraid the game will get out of control with xtra slots beyond 8. With this in mind, I think if the developers would at least allow 9 slots that would probably satisfy me and everyone involved without it being over the top for the argument against it (I still like 10 though myself). That would be 9 totally open slots to do what you want (no restrictions). The other reason behind this (Besides diversity) it just plan "Fun". If you can do a little more, things become more interesting as well in combat. I gets a little agitating for me after a while to be slightly boxed/restricted and always leaving out that xtra skill you wanted to take (After doing many combination testing, this tends to be the most common case for me and others and they leave out an additional skill that would have a nice flavor to the characters powers). Once again were not talking about 30 skills, just one additional skill slot, so this shouldn’t be such a killer to game play, but wrather an enhancement –and shouldn’t be a major issue to the play of the game for those arguing against it for slots..

Jarrod

[email protected] · Aug 24, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rellok

I am not to the SoC point yet. But are you saying that you can put as many SoCs in your skillbar as you want? And then capture whatever you want? And the limit to elites in your skillbar only takes effect when you are adding skills from your list in town?

I imagine that this cannot be, it would offer all of the huge imbalances that the game is trying to protect against.

Or are you referring to using a buddy's elite? That's still only 2.

Back to the original post.
1. No
2. No
3. If it doesn't cause lag, or increase system req's for those on the lower end, fine. If so, I don't want it. I would rather have more people to play with/vs with little to no lag.

Matt

On the graphics. I probably would not want tons of lag problems myself from adding buku skill graphics, but I have seen some decent graphics on some powers which don't intefere with gameplay but yet other powers don't have hardly any???. Lets take "firestorm" which is one of the first spells you get as an elementalist which is decent graphics: It shoots a flame ball up in the air and comes down on the enemy in a rain of fire (exactly what I would expect to see, and no lag issues- perfect). Now take fireball which you get much later in the game which does more damage in a shor period of time, a spell I had to really work for: No fireball emits from caster and mainly just damage #s just appear in the area effect (A very light sparkle of fire in the area effect which is almost not noticable its so faint). Its almost like going backwards sorta.... But anyway, I think all the devs would need to do is review the powers add a little spice to the visual effect (Not a ton, but a little I think would be tolerable and please the players quite a bit-- "A little goes a long way" as the old saying goes.

Jarrod.

[email protected] · Aug 25, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rayea

good to know, then...

ok, maybe spots to rest in <large> missions and maps, then. places that you need to stop for a few mins while you slog through to wait while someone takes a pee break or nips downstairs for a rumage in the fridge/cupords for a snack. some maps are hard to do first time round without a snac or two, or bathroom break.

Thats true for me as well, when I am playing with others in guild wars we do take a few breaks in the game (especially on long missions)- this is a good time to be allowed to set camp and fiddle with skills while others are gabbing some grub, using bathroom, etc. In other online games I have played similar to this one, we do usually setup camp when we take breaks (Each individual person can setup camp or simply stand there in neverwinter for example as long as the area has been cleared of enemies). Now that you mention this, I really don't think it would be that big a deal or so unfamiliar a concept for even a game like GuildWars to have this functionality in the game. If I could choose, I would say the developers should allow "setup of camp" and allow one xtra skill slot- That would be really be cool and reduce frustation of rehashing areas so much or missing some really good opportunities to utilize those xtra skills you have available. Due to lower flexibilitly in this game, I usually opt out to equip the most easily appliable/versatile skills (non specific) for missions simply because I want to be effective in battle no matter how the monsters change as the missions continues or who we run into (you have to, you only have 8 slots and you can't rest to change them in mid mission to compensate for change in the enemy). Due to this, your character is sorta boxed into his/her specific role with less opportunities of utilizing their selection of skills (no matter if there are 500 skills to select from). Again, if we can change skills in camp we should be able to change skill point allocation as well just like you can in a city (There really shouldn't be any difference here between camp site and the city for what you can change on your personal character).

Jarrod..

[email protected] · Aug 25, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_V_H

Yeah number 3 is good. When I do some skills like conjure lighting I think... why isnt my axe engulfed in lightning?

same goes for conjure flame and frost. I don't know about your other ideas though.

This is exactly what I am refering to... This isn't asking for to much I think for this special effect to be added by the developers (It makes the game and combat in general more fun)..

Jarrod

Red Sonya · Aug 25, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

THis isn't Dungeons and Dragons nore is it Neverwinter Nights or other malarky single player RPGs. This is a coop game and you should discuss what would be the optimum skills to bring before the mission (they are already too easy).

Though I wouldn't be opposed to a Rez Sig always slot added so that idiots who never bring a rez sig would always have one.

That's all the slot would ever be and no other skill could ever be added to it.

[email protected] · Aug 26, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

THis isn't Dungeons and Dragons nore is it Neverwinter Nights or other malarky single player RPGs. This is a coop game and you should discuss what would be the optimum skills to bring before the mission (they are already too easy).

If you gonna give your opinion on a game, I don't have a problem with it (that's what we're all doing here anyway), but at least know some basic facts about the games I'm referring to before you do. When I've made references to other games in comparison to GuildWars they have all been muliplayer online as well so the comparison is as fair as possible. I believe people have been getting confused about why I made some earlier comparisons to guildwars thinking that I am comparing this game to a single player game

and then freaking out about it without really understanding my point. Let me clear up this confusion once and for all. I used "Neverwinter Nights" as a common comparison in particular because it has about the same # of online players that can play together (2-8 players that can play Coop) depending on the module you use without other online players being involved in the missions- does this sound familar to you yet? It should? So no it's not just a one player game, in fact it's much funner to play coop with others in my opinion. I emphasize the word "coop" here because thats exaclty what it is-- So hopefully people can stop mentioning this in their posts as if I don't know what the word "coop" means somehow

. Also neverwinter has similar multiclass components such as fighter/priest, mage/fighter, ranger/mage, necromancer/ranger and so forth. Some of the other massive multiplayer games can form massive parties like warcraft which really isn't a good comparison to guildwars because guildwars (and neverwinter) has party size limitations and the mission is dedicated to that party only (there are no other online players free roaming in your missions). This is another reason I singled out neverwinter as my mainstay comparison. I also realize that none of these games are the exact same as guildwars (not even neverwinter), but it is the same genre type. Guildwars has its on uniqueness which doesn't blend with any other game on the market but the basic element/principle does (Which is a dungeons & dragons style fantasy online mulitplayer game). An when I say "dungeons & dragons" style game, I mean a genre of fantasy type games that ride closely to this theme (Dwarfs, hydras, dragons, rangers, priest types, magic users types, and so forth) -but of course with a uniqueness twist to its own world because GuildWars does have some different race, creature, and class components which are outside of mainstream D&D fantasy.

Jarrod.