Curse

Forboding Angel · Jul 11, 2005, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Yes you heard me.

I would like for every profession to be able to use the normal res spell that monks have without having to take mo as a secondary.

Hell up until a little while ago I kept MO as a secondary just so I could have vengence, (a reusable res spell).

Please please give us a reusable res spell. Even one that takes 3 min to recharge. just so long as I can use it more than once per mission. Have you ever been to fissure???

Racthoh · Jul 11, 2005, 05:35 AM // 05:35

I can say yes I've been to fissure, and you really need to keep your monks alive. Having even just a few members as secondary monk works well enough if say at least have the party can res.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 11, 2005, 05:37 AM // 05:37

There's no need for such a skill. Secondary monk means permanent res. And since res sigs even though they are one timers allow any class to raise this should be enough to keep ur party alive in the fissure. Just save the res sigs for when all your permant resers are dead. If this is happening more then you have res sigs you need to replan your stratagy next time you go in.

TheIrishman · Jul 11, 2005, 05:55 AM // 05:55

All classes already have a Rez skill. It's called Ressurection Signet. It's a very good skill. 3 second cast time, Full life upon rez, no mana cost. Don't piss and moan, boyo. Have everyone in your group bring one, and just have the survivor rez the monks.

Also, remember: That skill recharges after cinematics and (I think) after Morale Boosts.

So, don't suck and you'll be fine.

theclam · Jul 11, 2005, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Why? Out of 8 people, how often do all of your Mo/* and */Mo die? Res signet already recharges often enough for such situations. If you really have problems keeping your Monks alive in PvE, then your group sucks.

In PvP, it would unbalance Arena combat, in my opinion.

Forboding Angel · Jul 11, 2005, 07:42 AM // 07:42

arg

you guys aren't getting the point. Usually I go fowing with my guild and res signets are fine because everyone brings them and know when to use them, however sometimes I have to go with pugs and if none of you have noticed, for some reason people like to drop after the first quest. A little odd but ok.

What if it was the monk that dropped? I'm sure that anet didn't mean for every primary class to have /mo as the secondary?

BTW I was using fissure as an example. Things of this nature happen everywhere no matter what level you are. Res sigs are good, but if you are in hells precipiece (spelling) (also this is another "EXAMPLE"), and you are on the third time killing the lich... Everyone dies but the ranger (insert class here, but I'm using an experience that happened to me) and he has already used his res signet while you were fighting the damn sparks.

No you mean to tell me that having a reusable res is a bad thing? How so? In pvp, most groups have mo secondary so a reusable res is not an issue... BUT, what if this game was as I believe the original creators intended (that is having something other than mo as secondary causing increasing variety about chars) and you end up with say 2 monks and a warrior with a mo secondary. Everyone else has something else as a secondary.

Your team bum rushes the others priest, you get the priest but a lone hammer war takes out yours as well. The ele's and mesmers take out your monks in short order, res sigs get used, rinse and repeat. At some point there is no way for your team to res any more, which means, you are completely screwed.

This is all hypothetical, but it serves a purpose. I'm not saying the game is broken by any means, however how many parties in pvp have you been in that at least 5 people have mo as secondary?

I personally feel as though I am almost forced to take mo as a secondary just because my char is usually the only one left alive if we get screwed (stealing health is so very useful, evil laugh).

BTW ppl, I was addressing the dev team, not you all individually.

To answer individual posts...

@ Racthoh I totally agree, however, with spirit shepherds for example, monks die an easy death quite quickly unless they were smart and brought protective spirit with them.

@ Thomasuwoo You completely missed the point. Usually in fissure (once again an example) I and my guild/pug if I can find a good one, will spend 1 to 3 hours farming and completing quests. You mean to tell me that your group goes to fissure and never dies? Congrats, that great, but it still does not solve the problem that not quite everyone can do that. Hell my smiting monk can go in there with 3 other people and stay alive only dying a few times here and there, but not everyone can equip protective spirit and life bond (read non monk secondaries).

@ TheIrishman I'm going to label you as a prick simply for the way you answered my post. I have been here since the bwe's. I'm not a noob and do not appreciate your condescending. That said... I am not pissing and moaning, I am addressing what I feel is a flaw that was not originally intended (The flaw being that 9 out of 10 people have mo as a secondary). I'm not saying that a reuseable res should be as good as a signet. Hell no. I mentioned the regular res spell that monks have because it sucks. It has an unbearable long cast time and takes I believe 10 energy, plus people that get resed with this skill have about 25-30% life and about 3-8 energy (from what I can tell. I haven't exactly researched the spell too much), which makes it perfect as a reusable skill that everyone could use. He the res part sucks but at least you can use it as many times as you want.

@ theclam in that case arena combat is already unbalanced because almost everyone has a reusable res skill due to the fact that almost everyone's secondary is a mo. In the first part of your post you reaffirm my feelings that something is wrong here.

"Why? Out of 8 people, how often do all of your Mo/* and */Mo die?"

EXACTLY, ther are usually 5-6 /mo's in the party! Isn't that a little odd? Most of those people are probably using mo as a secondary for 1-3 skills. Symbol of wrath, healing breeze, and whatever reusable res skill they like. And if you are using secondary for smiting, well, it's not that great of an idea. Smiting isn't all that great until you get it to 16.

Anyway, Objective opinions please people. Argue about the pro/cons of this idea as opposed to bashing the poster before you.

Thanks

Lost · Jul 11, 2005, 07:50 AM // 07:50

Quote:

if you are in hells precipiece (spelling) (also this is another "EXAMPLE"), and you are on the third time killing the lich... Everyone dies but the ranger (insert class here, but I'm using an experience that happened to me) and he has already used his res signet while you were fighting the damn sparks.

If that happens then the party was obviously not good enough to beat the mission and deserves to lose.

Forboding Angel · Jul 11, 2005, 08:00 AM // 08:00

@ lost WTF kind of answer was that? YOU TALKED ONLY ABOUT THE EXAMPLE AS OPPOSED TO TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE!

Good god do I have to spell it out?

The question here is:

Is a reusable res spell that anyone can use a good/bad idea and why?

I'm getting a lot of feedback that has nothing to do with the point of the original post. WTH are you addressing the example instead of the issue?

Lost · Jul 11, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

Is a reusable res spell that anyone can use a good/bad idea and why?

It's bad. If a party in any situation is nearly wiped and without surviving monks, they were not good enough to handle whatever mission/quest they were on. They deserve to lose. They need to start over and maybe get some better players. Giving everyone a reusable resurrect skill would make the game even easier than it already is. There has to be some challenges.

Mo/R9 · Jul 11, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

It's a bad idea because the whole idea of using the Rez Sig strategically would be defeated. Also note that after being rezzed, having a cine or after 5 mins (approx.), rez signet recharges. The recharge time is just insanely long on rez signet (note that you don't see it recharge). I have been in a mission (with my warrior) and rez singet recharged halfway through.

Also, it would make all the missions too easy, all you need is one person to hang back and you can't lose a mission, it takes a lot of the strategy out of the game.

With the "all dead apart from one who only has rez sig" scenario, I have been adventuring with many parties with my monk and I have always been well defended. The biggest problem is people using their rez signets because they don't think the monk has a rez spell.

To put it simply, I have been through the whole game with my monk and have never been in a situation like that.

Thomasuwoo · Jul 11, 2005, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

@ Thomasuwoo You completely missed the point. Usually in fissure (once again an example) I and my guild/pug if I can find a good one, will spend 1 to 3 hours farming and completing quests. You mean to tell me that your group goes to fissure and never dies? Congrats, that great, but it still does not solve the problem that not quite everyone can do that. Hell my smiting monk can go in there with 3 other people and stay alive only dying a few times here and there, but not everyone can equip protective spirit and life bond (read non monk secondaries).

No sir. You have missed the point. Yes we have accidents and people die. If it happens we get our monk/s to use their permanent res. If both monks die we use One Res sig on a monk and get him to res the rest. Also FoW and UW are special areas. They are designed to be tackled by teams that actually discussed their skills and strategies before they went in. If you can't find a group of people to do that with tough luck. Anet is not going to lower the challenge of their game to suit you for the times when you are having trouble finding a good party. These areas are desinged to provide a challenge to the players unlike the cakewalk that is the first 80% of the PvE campaing (Which I consider more of a tutorial.)

none · Jul 11, 2005, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mo/R9

It's a bad idea because the whole idea of using the Rez Sig strategically would be defeated. Also note that after being rezzed, having a cine or after 5 mins (approx.), rez signet recharges. The recharge time is just insanely long on rez signet (note that you don't see it recharge). I have been in a mission (with my warrior) and rez singet recharged halfway through.

Also, it would make all the missions too easy, all you need is one person to hang back and you can't lose a mission, it takes a lot of the strategy out of the game.

With the "all dead apart from one who only has rez sig" scenario, I have been adventuring with many parties with my monk and I have always been well defended. The biggest problem is people using their rez signets because they don't think the monk has a rez spell.

To put it simply, I have been through the whole game with my monk and have never been in a situation like that.

It doesn't recharge by itself, it gets recharged at cinematics and once you beat a boss (or get a moral boost for another reason).

Ress for all is a bad idea. As already mentioned, it makes the game even more easy and removes tactical necessities for PvP.

Darksci · Jul 11, 2005, 01:10 PM // 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

What if it was the monk that dropped? I'm sure that anet didn't mean for every primary class to have /mo as the secondary?

Well if your healing/protection monk dropped out - whos going to heal you?
You'll die anyway.

/Mo secondaries aren't really good enough. Divine Favor is a valuable and important skill.

By giving res to every class, you remove one of the key importance of being a Monk class. It's like giving a bow skill to a elementalist. Skills need to stay with their profession. Signet is not really a skill, i see it as a non-usable item, hence all classes can use Res Signet.

Sniper22 · Jul 11, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

EXACTLY, ther are usually 5-6 /mo's in the party! Isn't that a little odd? Most of those people are probably using mo as a secondary for 1-3 skills. Symbol of wrath, healing breeze, and whatever reusable res skill they like. And if you are using secondary for smiting, well, it's not that great of an idea. Smiting isn't all that great until you get it to 16.

Anyway, Objective opinions please people. Argue about the pro/cons of this idea as opposed to bashing the poster before you.

Thanks

Hey 3 skills is a decent use of a secondary. In pvp i just bring rebirth just incase i need to res a monk out of combat. In pve I also use Aegis with enfeebling blood to help out the warriors and make it easier on the monks.

Hey I also used to use smiting at lvl 10ish before I didn't use 16 death, 12 curse, 7 reap, 2 prot. Scounge healing owned with lingering curse, monks actually hurt themselves trying to heal when their health is low. Monks can really go with necros or other classes. Healing to heal sacrifices, that take all condition from party member skill then send it off to you enemy. Scounge Healing for eles and necros is good too.

Lol, and if you are the only one alive at points don't run away from your party like a chicken if you can't even res. Help them out and let the monks/2ndary monks escape. My groups never had that problem, usually it would be me and another monk left ressing people.

ikolian · Jul 11, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Permanent, reusable rezzes for every class devalues that skill for a monk or monk secondary. It removes the strategy of protecting the monk long enough to allow them to rez other party members. Resurection signet is sufficent to cover those cases where all the monk classes have (by some catastrophe) died. If it happens twice before you get resurrection signets recharged (by killing a boss or other morale boost/quest xp reward) then your strategy is lacking, and your team build or teamwork is insufficent.

It also would prolong those annoying pvp matches where one guy runs away all the time, and resurects a party member, who runs, and resurects another member- That team isn't going to lose no matter how many times they resurect a party member, since they've never got more than one person up at a time.

elthrain · Jul 11, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

its called light of dwana... res all surrounding party members

Damon Windwalker · Jul 11, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikolian

Permanent, reusable rezzes for every class devalues that skill for a monk or monk secondary. It removes the strategy of protecting the monk long enough to allow them to rez other party members.

Exactly my thoughts. Every class has something that makes them special - for monk it's a healer. It could possibly be argued that rez is the single most powerful ability in the entire game - and certainly the combination of rez and healing is uber. To balance that, you need to have negatives - that would be a character that is otehrwise weak and needs to be protected (not to mention, played smartly).

A rez signet is fione fro everyone else - keep rez to the monks. Heck, if it were up to me I would have made re-useable rez the "unique" that only the monk primary gets...

Ishamael Sedai · Jul 11, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

Why? Out of 8 people, how often do all of your Mo/* and */Mo die? Res signet already recharges often enough for such situations. If you really have problems keeping your Monks alive in PvE, then your group sucks.

In PvP, it would unbalance Arena combat, in my opinion.

I don't think all groups should have access to rez spell.

I agree with the group sucks comment.

I disagree that it would unbalance combat since rez is basically a trash skill in pvp compared to rez sig.

Ishamael Sedai · Jul 11, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forboding Angel

@ lost WTF kind of answer was that? YOU TALKED ONLY ABOUT THE EXAMPLE AS OPPOSED TO TALKING ABOUT THE ISSUE!

Good god do I have to spell it out?

The question here is:

Is a reusable res spell that anyone can use a good/bad idea and why?

I'm getting a lot of feedback that has nothing to do with the point of the original post. WTH are you addressing the example instead of the issue?

The reason I do not like it is basically I see it having trouble fitting in with the roles of the professions not in the gaming aspect but in the story aspect. Hmmmm I'm trying to think how to phrase this. This game obviously isn't a real life but but there is a sense of realism within the fantasy world. What I'm trying to say is that it would be odd to see a monk skill that raises minions or a warrior skill that was similar to lightning orb. I just kind of viewed rez as something that monks do.

Cymmina · Jul 11, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

I thought there weren't any bosses/morale boosts in Fissure/UW (or if there are, none of the groups I've had took the time to get there, prefering to farm instead). Resurrection Signet, in such areas, is a waste because it can't be recharged.

Recently, I've encountered an AI problem with henchmen when you have a melee and a ranged player together with them (I know the problem doesn't exist with 2 ranged players). About 90% of the time, the healer will run ahead of the melee player and get herself killed. Unless someone brings a monk res, the other henchmen will blow their res sigs on the healer, who refuses to stay back and insists on tanking (also refuses to stand still near Healing Spring or Well of Blood). I've seen her resed 3 times in a single fight.

It is in situations like those, I would gladly give up my elite skill slot just to carry a continuous resurrect. I can't always go */Mo because I may have an elite I want to capture as a different secondary in a very out of the way area that few actual [competent] people are willing to go.

Quote:

I just kind of viewed rez as something that monks do.

This arguement doesn't hold any water because everyone can get Resurrection Signet, monks included.