Curse

Wahoo · Sep 11, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

So there I was, Ice Caves of Sorrow - unascended with a full group of henchmen. In my fervor to reach Marhan's Grotto, I had been taken to Droknar's Forge via the Lornar's Pass route and was in an adventurous mood.

Up for a challenge, I decided to try the bonus (having never done it before for this mission). Mursaat?! Dear God, this was a mistake...but my henchmen - troopers in all of their artificial intelligent glory - stuck to the targets and managed to rezz me and their four buddies before the next onslaught (read: slaughter). All was going well, infact, I felt I was actually achieving something wonderful that I may not have been able to experience without such blind dedication on behalf of my henchmen comrades.

But there was a turn for the worst...

In my zeal, the final leg of the trip cost several lives. Desperate for the final mission's cinematic, I made a desperate decision - run for the boat! And then...the degen set in. Before I knew it, I was...well...below is the aftermath, please make note of the caption.

Note: there are three henchmen in this picture - Mage and Fighter stood still next to me, Lina (you can make her out as the twig in the black sand, about 11 o'clock from Orion) decided she was quite fine to path out of range back and forth along that ridge.

Now - consider for a moment what this post is *really* about - a potential new feature in GuildWars.

What If:
Upon dieing in a group that contained henchmen, you spectated one of your CPU comrades, and

What If:
You saw a button upon doing so - this button simply said: "Play"

What If:
After clicking this button, you were now in control of the henchman you were previously spectating. You can now play as the henchman in question, so long as you're still dead. When resurrected, you're immediately transported back to the mortal coil from whence you came.

After talking it over with some friends and guildmates, a few problems came to our immediate attention -

Exploitation of the feature:

"More than one player on a henchman a.k.a. the Multiple Personality Problem"
How about coding a simple boolean to check whether or not someone's already playing before clicking the - you know - "Play" button.

"Why would you want to get rezzed?"
This is a team-based game, isn't it? I suppose you could continue as the henchman...but, why? To play devil's advocate - after a 3 hour haul through <insert end-game area here>, it might be nice to "try" something new...even if temporarily.

"...what about sacrificing necros running themselves through the game?"
Again, why? The only pre-crystal desert hechmen that are arguably capable of anything faster than a runner are in the Temple of Ages. If somebody has a valid argument as to why this is such a damaging threat to the implementation of such a feature, please mention it. I'm drawing a blank.

Summary:
I'm kindly asking for the Guildwarsguru.com community to discuss this idea with me. The feature, in its simplest form requires some sort of "activation" that swaps the player between bodies. It would also (likely) require some sort of addendum to the Resurrection Shrine function - as an "afk-ish" mortal player would be an awful bug. In addition, the Menu would still have to be accessible when in the henchman - the option to log out would be useful.

Some quick things to note before posting:

Henchmen *do* have set skills and armor levels - please do not suggest that they have access to every skill in the game. There are published lists of what the use, and I believe it varies between regions (exploitable?)

Henchmen *do* follow each other. Unless I'm mistaken, Stefan is usually the "leader," so to speak. That is, as long as the priority members of the group aren't under attack and there's only movement taking place, the autofollow command is usually on Stefan, after all mortal players have either run out of range or died.

Henchmen *do* do damage comparable (sometimes better than your average player

) Again, there are lists of this on various fansites.

Last, but not least, I want to thank everyone in advance for reading and potentially discussing this idea. I feel it would be a widely appreciated implement, as we've ALL been in situations like my screenshot above. Should anyone feel the need to contact me in-game about this idea - maybe out of boredom, I'd be more than happy to chat about it. Let's make this a constructive post worthy of attention by Arena.Net!

By the way, I had to restart the mission...but remain convinced if there was an intelligent being behind Lina, I would've been able to walk those last six inches...

Sekkira · Sep 11, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

I like this idea, however it's not in the right forum.

How'd you go in the bonus btw?

Divinitys Creature · Sep 11, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Sounds like a good idea. A simple version would be a res me button available when you spectate.

Tuoba Hturt Eht · Sep 11, 2005, 04:02 PM // 16:02

Its a good idea. I support it. Cheers.

/signed

Wahoo · Sep 11, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Did I screw up in the forum placement? Oh noes...

The bonus was an adrenaline rush! The placement of mobs and grouping was ingenious. I had to fight my way through Mursaat. With a non-infused group, it's a suicidal plan. Fortunately, it was designed extremely well. First of all, you'll only see three Mursaat per group -

either a Jade Armor x3 group,
a Mursaat Elementalist x2 + Mursaat Monk group,
or a Jade Armor, Mursaat Elemetalist, and a Mursaat Monk.

As far as tactics go, I pretty much bum-rushed the group. At first, it was a hope and a prayer, but after finishing two of the four groups I had to encounter, it seemed like it might be possible without being infused. Spectral Agony pretty much guaranteed that at least three of us would die instantly. Chain Lightning, Thunderclap, and Rust (experienced in two out of the three scenarios) would almost always kill myself and two more...if I hadn't already been slaughtered by their monster skill. Every time Orion, Little Thorn, and Lina would be left alive. Orion would save the day with AoE goodness, and Lina would rezz the rest of the group, included myself.

The amazing thing about it is, they included just enough Mursaat to make it possible, and just enough groups to make sure you're at -60% by the time you complete it if you do it without infused armor (translation: if you don't cheat

)

All in all, it was an extremely challenging and fun mission until I died only inches from the cinematic and my henchmen came through ftl. But I wouldn't have been able to come up with this idea without that catastrophic occurence.

Lily · Sep 11, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Yeah great idea, i dont know how many times something similar has happened to me
its so frustrating playing with henchies, and i honestly think that monsters have better AI which is kinda sad

Wahoo · Sep 11, 2005, 04:21 PM // 16:21

I can't help but feel the same way. Unfortunately, from a programmer's point of view, it's MUCH easier to code a simple encounter as a monster - you've got your profession, it does as it's designed - wham, bam, thank you ma'am - than it is to try to have a henchman essentially have to adapt to whatever the player needs it to do.

Take some of the early Charr Martyrs or Dolyak Masters in Northern Shiverpeaks and Old Ascalon - the Infuse Health skills they both use are extremely risky. In fact, I've come to recognize them as later targets, since I know they'll almost always halve their health for me if I'm whacking on one of their buds. Granted, the henchmen generally have more balanced skillsets than something that'd include Infuse Health...but as a hyperbolic statement, if I EVER saw Lina or Mhenlo try that stunt, I'd most likely fall on my sword in disgrace.

To draw a more pertinent example - look at Claude. He's a powerhouse...but he has no intelligent thought process guiding his actions. I can't come down on the programmers for that, because coding artificial intelligence is the bane of their existances.

It's not only a benefit to players, but also to the Dev Team to look into the possibility of such a feature. Imagine how many hours of coding all possible scenarios (Fighter 50%hp, Healer 20%hp, Mage <dead> = Heal Healer, Fighter 20% hp, Healer 100%hp, Mage 100% hp = Heal Fighter, etc etc) they could save if there were an ability to place an intelligent being behind the reins. I bet they could even apply some of that saved time towards bettering an already *awesome* product.

I applaud their efforts so far...to put such effort into a video game really speaks alot about their commitment and contributions that their respective fields have made. We should be kissing the ground they walk on for adding an ability to play a multiplayer game...well...without people.

Lily · Sep 11, 2005, 04:45 PM // 16:45

i understand the problems of programming AI, however what i mean is that say your the only human player in a group of henchies. as soon as u die they all target a different monster (while monsters stay on *one* target), and they rarely rez in the middle of a battle (even if you are a monk)
but ya im not saying that its the programers fault, just saying theres room for improvement

of course if they just implemt your idea there'd be no need to change their AI, because u could just take control and use a rez sig on yourself and everything would be happy

Kaospryx · Sep 11, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

This idea could be very fun, although there would be one obvious method of abuse: What if in a pug, someone purposely kills themself by aggro or something, just to take control of hecnhies like Lina or Alesia? They could then sabotage the entire group, if they wished, and control various henchies. Of course, you do not have to play with pugs, but they are inevitable everywhere, and people will be affected by this, sooner or later.

Wahoo · Sep 11, 2005, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Great thinking! I'll admit, you caught me off gaurd with this scenario, as I generally believe that human beings are innately good. Then again, it's a whole 'nother ballgame when it comes to online games... so where do we go from here?

I suppose it's impossible to complete avoid this potential outcome, but when I often resort to pugs (admittedly, as a last resort), I try to get gauge what kind of people I'll be working with prior to starting - granted, being friendly and chatting for a bit before heading off for an hour-long excursion is not always the perfect indicator for group performance, but it helps to know you're on the same page as the people you'll be playing with.

I'll admit, nothing annoys me more than seeing people invite others into a pug, only to bombard them with "skills?! What skills <insert playername>?!", or in case of PvP, "/rank <insert playername>! What /rank are you? /rank NOW". (and this isn't a bitter gripe about not getting into groups). I guess my point is that a little courtesy goes a long way...but, alas, I digress.

I guess what I meant to say was I would hope the people I'd be playing with would have similar goals in mind when starting a pug, regardless of whether it be for PvP, a mission, a quest, or simply to explore an area...notwithstanding, you're right. That can't exactly be avoided with the current features at this time. However, I don't think it'd be a chronic problem, as there's a certain amount of trust involved in pugs, and I would hope the amount of honest, happy-go-lucky players greatly outnumber the malicious ones.

Keep the replies coming, guys. I'd love to see some more constructive criticism...perhaps a /signed if this post is deserving?

/signed ::cough::

Mandy Memory · Sep 13, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

i would love this, so much for waiting forever...just play as stephan!