Curse

Lavendange19 · Oct 12, 2005, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Hi all.

I don't know if i am the only one who think so, but i really find that there is absolutely no interest in this game for Pve high level characters. I explain , i have done all that can be done (or almost all) , i finished all quests and bonus, furnace, fow and UW (humm btw i haven't completed all quests in UW yet, but nevermind). I know how to farm but i think it is now totally useless and boring. Of course i enjoy pvp but i'd really like to continue playing pve without being bored after 30 minutes.

So here are my suggestions. Anet wants a well balanced game but i think that this, for a main part, concerns pvp. As each one follows his own history, what's the point in balancing pve ??? The reason is that pve and pvp are bound tightly, by the upgrades unlock systems, armors defense etc ... and because you can use a pve char in pvp.
So they should more separate pvp and pve. Of course the unlock system is a good idea so that new players cannot have the same stuff as pve players and to give the collecting interest of unlocking all. BUT why not introduce some über weapons and upgrades only available in pve ? I could see for exemple in UW, or other high level areas or monsters (djinns ? furnace's robot ?), some upgrades HP +40, sword mastery +2-3 etc, swords 20-35 etc... which are NOT unlocked for pvp to keep the balanced competition that Anet wants. Why not improving the AC of fissure armor too ? why not creating some elite areas which could require these elite pve items to enter or a minimum amount of XP (i thought about pve rank too to avoid noob groups in high level pve maps but this is another question

, btw you can give your idea on that one too ^^ ) ? you can think about new wonderful skills which can be used only for pve too... Of course that means that who cannot enter pvp areas with your pve char anymore... but where is the problem ? You need 10 minutes to create a pvp char and most players play with a pvp one (and not their pve char) to match the team build. For this pvp char, upgrades are capped to HP +30 etc ... and could be , as now, unlocked the same way by faction or pve.

Concerning pve balance, of course economy will flame with these new weapons but in the same way, prices of items that are "perfect" for pvp, that means HP+30 etc ... will drop, so that even casual players can play pvp with same stuff as hardcore gamers. Creating über collecting PVE ONLY items is the best way to lower prices of pvp "perfect" items, and it doesn't kill the interest of playing pve like it is done for now.
The fact that pve is unbalanced is not a problem either, since each one follows his own story. they can group only with same level players or with henchies or with what they want. Nothing force them to join über players who do all the work for them, in the opposite of real MMO where some high levels can destroy the low level's adventures by killing all. Here you are the only one (and your group of course) to play your map. What's the problem if you meet a hardcore gamer with elite PVE armor in a town, just don't group with him.

that's my point of view and the main idea is to SEPARATE PVE AND PVP. These are two different games and trying to improve one, you kill the other! Anet managed to create either a very good pvp and pve game, why binding them so that they kill each other ?

Tell me what are your ideas about that, but please don't flame saying i am elitist or something like that i already heard when suggesting that in france.

thank you all for having read all of that and excuse me if my english is quite bad

Mr Wolfmaster · Oct 12, 2005, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Ok part of it sounds like your bored with pve. Play WoW? Sadly that's all I can say. I got bored with pve eons ago and I even stopped playing although for about a month. (A friend got me back into it) Guild wars is a pvp centered game. It fixes a LOT of the pvp issues, but at cost to pve. Seperation of pvp and pve eh? Sounds a little sloppy to me. Maybe not that bad of an idea but honestly I don't like the idea of fissue armor giving more ac. Than people who don't have it will be at a disatvantage and that's not cool. People buy fissure armor knowning that it doesn't do anything but make you look cooler so why not just leave it that way?

Shinomori · Oct 12, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Wolfmaster

Guild wars is a pvp centered game.

Upon all that is holy, I will beat the crap out of the next person to say this.

I'm PRETTY SURE that if a game has a STORY that takes a LARGE INVESTMENT IN TIME to go through JUST THE MISSIONS, let alone the quests, it is NOT PvP centered.

That said, all you naive little PvP bums can feel free to flame away at me.

mortalis doleo · Oct 13, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

the game has a storyline and missions, and a relatively deep pve part, but it is obvious that pvp is more dominent.
the game was launched with pvp arenas of all sorts, it has a world guild ladder and holds many events to promote pvp.
the pvp also controls pve in some way - having to gain favour to gain access to FoW and UW.

but nvm, i dont mean to flame.

lyra_song · Oct 13, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Every item and skill you unlock in Pve is used in PvP only. All mods you unlock in PvP are perfect.You can burn through this game in less than 24 hours. And its called GUILD WARS. -.-;

anyway..on to topic. I think there should be "pvp versions" of SOME skills, while some skills remain unchanged. Either that...or make the PvE monsters behave a lot more like elite PvP players. XD

Lavendange19 · Oct 13, 2005, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Wolfmaster

I don't like the idea of fissue armor giving more ac. Than people who don't have it will be at a disatvantage and that's not cool.

Why is it a disatvantage ? In Pve each one plays his own game, what's the problem if some guys are stronger than others ? For pvp i agree that it would be a very bad thing, but in pve i don't understand why

Zhou Feng · Oct 13, 2005, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Wolfmaster

Ok part of it sounds like your bored with pve. Play WoW? Sadly that's all I can say. I got bored with pve eons ago and I even stopped playing although for about a month. (A friend got me back into it) Guild wars is a pvp centered game. It fixes a LOT of the pvp issues, but at cost to pve. Seperation of pvp and pve eh? Sounds a little sloppy to me. Maybe not that bad of an idea but honestly I don't like the idea of fissue armor giving more ac. Than people who don't have it will be at a disatvantage and that's not cool. People buy fissure armor knowning that it doesn't do anything but make you look cooler so why not just leave it that way?

PvE in this game is more like a "single" Zelda game on steroids. If you play through it you'll stop playing it afterwards cause there isnt anything else to do (Wind Waker comes to mind after you get all the treasure and even then that becasue Im a completist, other wise I had no heart to play the second quest)

Right now until Anet does something to infuse PvE (A couple of mates around and me have some ideas) the best bet is NOT to rush PvE... and hopefully enjoy PvP. That way you can alternate between both. This game carters more for PvP freaks like me though (I STILL havent finished PvEing with my main although hes twenty eons ago). But when I need to take a break from PvP I go to PvE.

The best thing is this game keeps getting additions and "chapters" so theres still hope. This also ties in with the idea that GW is more like a pick n play game then take a break then pick and play again with some other character.

Many people find GW story line bland... bah I know bland. Ive played countless RPs and GW story is pretty good. Not the best but quite good. (I loved it when Ruric died. That was an amazing plot twist. As well as the Mantle being evil... although I was suspicious about it. Too many rps played gives you an edge to that...)

Many people also try to treat this like an actual MMORPG which it isnt. This isnt EQ, or WoW by far... (although those game ALSO become bland and repetitive)

I wish though this game had more quests as well as bigger map expansions. I also wish you werent forced to fight gazillion enemies from point a to point b... ANET MAKE THE DARN MONSTERS RETREAT AFTER FOLLOWING FOR A WHILE! JEEZ they don't let up unless you can outrun them with a runner skill OTHERWHISE YOU ARE FORCED TO FIGHT with hundred of enemies over and over... ok I like killing shit like the next guy. HELL im used to fighting every 5 seconds because of some moronic random battle rps ive played. But having forcefully to fight 30 monsters on the way to point b (stupid desert quest Secrets come to mind, whats worse after fighting my way halfway to the quest the GW disconnected, curiosly the internet was still running

)

Someonme mentioned it be good to have random quests. How that can be pulled of I dont know. Random encounters would be good too. Again unsure how they will pull that out. But seriously PvE needs an injection. Some people have this... blessing... they can play PvE with four diffrent characters and not get bored. I only have one pve char the rest are pvp... so meh...

Conclusion PvE isnt that bad, but it definetly isnt an MMORPG and could use some more oomph.

Zhou Feng · Oct 13, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shinomori

Upon all that is holy, I will beat the crap out of the next person to say this.

I'm PRETTY SURE that if a game has a STORY that takes a LARGE INVESTMENT IN TIME to go through JUST THE MISSIONS, let alone the quests, it is NOT PvP centered.

That said, all you naive little PvP bums can feel free to flame away at me.

Umm yes it is PvP centered. I thought you noticed this after some time.

PvE is there to actually prepare you for PvP most of the time.

At any rate what I would also like to see is that ONCE YOU UNLOCK PVE SKILLS FOR THE LOV OF GOD LET THEM be unlocked when you play again with the same primary or secondary profession instead of having to unlock everything again.

Navaros · Oct 13, 2005, 09:32 AM // 09:32

I agree that there is little exciting things for high level PVE characters to do. Doing Fissure and UW and Furnace is fun the first 50 times or so but after that it's just old and boring.

I disagree that the solution is to give PVE players uber weapons.

Instead what they should do is added much larger instances, let's say an instance that can hold 200 people in it, all doing PVE-type things together.

Of course I know nothing about the technical limitations of doing something like that.

Lavendange19 · Oct 13, 2005, 09:42 AM // 09:42

hum über weapons were just an example. What i meant was i wanted that pve chars can always evolve. The interet (for me) of a RPG is the raise of your hero with no top. You can always be better, more powerful and go in more and more challenging areas.

*remembers final fantasy VII with all these ultimate boss and invocs you could reach after the end of the game*

MSecorsky · Oct 13, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

It's funny... I never had a chance to get bored with PvE. Love it, really. However... that freakin' extreme weekend...

I'm hooked on PvP now. Haven't even finished the Titan's quests or Sorrows.

LifeInfusion · Oct 13, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Solution: make an extra set of mods that do extra damage to nonhumans (i.e. Monster-slaying +20% damage innate modifier instead of a SUFFIX).

15>50 with +5-15 vs. monsters could be 20% vs. monsters or maybe even 30...

So basically add a second innate modifier to the weapon, that is PvE only.

A sample weapon description could be:
Furious Longsword of Fortitude
+15% damage while over 50% health
+15% against all monster types
+30 HP
Double adrenaline on hit (Chance 10%)

Instead of the current possible:
Furious Longsword of Fortitude
+15% damage while over 50% health
+30HP
Double adrenaline on hit (Chance 10%)

Just my thoughts.

FrogDevourer · Oct 13, 2005, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Personally I'd like the typical MMORPG never-ending carrot.
- auto-adjustement of the average monster level based on the average level of the party (in order to replay in Ascalon with ascended characters)
- items with XP requirements for post-ascension progression
- stackable bonuses against PvE monsters
- many more ascetic rewards from quests or drops (cool 3d models, unique visual effects)
- super rare keys for super rare chests for super rare items

or even stupid carrots:
- super ubber skills to insta-kill PvE monsters, hidden on super secret trainers available only when you've completed every quest of the game
- secret level with super-minotaurs able to kill you in one hit while removing enchantments and stances and shouts. This level would be available only when you have the super rare cow-armor, which is craftable only when you have one FoW armor on 4 characters
- crafting professions to make your own cloth when in town, and to show off your elite tailor level

As long as it has no impact on the delicate PvP balance, any PvE carrot is a good one.

Medion · Oct 13, 2005, 04:38 PM // 16:38

I totally agree that PvE should get a new boost again.

I even think that those UBER weapons should be able to be used in PvP. I know have my PvE character being refused in PvP because I am PvE with no 'Perfect' items. <<< ridiculous in my opinion.

I would like to see some very difficult (exlusively) PvE skills. You would need to get them far away from an outpost. They should be in places like UW/FoW/Sorrows, so that you cant find them on your map.
Why unmapped? Because (no offense) these kind of fansites, tell everyone where to find certain stuff and collectors etc.

PvE should also being about knowing the game, not copying all information from the internet. Ofcourse you say, don`t look on those sites. But you will always meet people who DO look there, and just know where to find those skills.

kawaii_bat · Oct 13, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavendange19

hum über weapons were just an example. What i meant was i wanted that pve chars can always evolve. The interet (for me) of a RPG is the raise of your hero with no top. You can always be better, more powerful and go in more and more challenging areas.

*remembers final fantasy VII with all these ultimate boss and invocs you could reach after the end of the game*

Green items(ultimate and/or unique weapons), fissure and 15k armor, Unique pet spider in UW mission.
The titan missions come to mind as ultimate bosses.... oh! and capturing elite skills too?

These things are only available to players who play PvE or have played PvE in the past.

I guess that most people once they've gotten everything or have done everything aren't imaginative enough to just have fun and create their own challenges.
ex. not dying once, playing the game with hences only etc....

Personally after having finnished almost all of the game using many proffessions I find I like interacting with players the most fun.

I'll do tough missions just to whine and laugh at our antics or accompany random groups on quests I've already completed. I still have fun doing it.

Nectarine · Oct 13, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

I think people misunderstand guild wars in so many way.
One of the best things about guild wars is the way it enables casual gamers to reach the same content as those nutcase "hardcore" gamers (no offense anyone hehe).

Someone who's a casual gamer can come onto guildwars and play through one mission or quest in an hour, then log off and go study or smell roses and such. The team missions and being able to jump to any prediscovered town is a major part of this.
I love it.
Way too many mmo's require whole afternoon's to be devoted to them to make any progress. It's like many mmo's are feeding off (and making worse) people isolating themselves from the 'real' world, and indulging in laziness.
I'm not saying that all heavy gamers are like this, but from personal experience, devoting loads of your day every day to computer games often causes damage to other parts of your life.
I'm sure many students are familiar with staying up way into the morning, and sleeping in too much, thus missing all your morning lectures.

So definitely catering for casual gamers is excellent for gamers, but also for business. We pay just as much, but don't use as much server time.
I would not be suprised if the majority of people who paid for guildwars are not logging in every night or second night for hours on end. Most of the payees will be casuals.
And people who play casually can have fun with pvp sure, but wont be nearly as competitive against the crazy pvp folk.

I think people who pvp exclusively only think that guildwars is pvp centric because that's all they do and see. How often will the encounter a player who's had the game for six months and hasn't got any char's ascended? These players exist.

Guildwars caters for PvE MORE then equally. After all, it must be something like 95%+ of the content in guildwars was created for PvE. They didn't build all those area's just as a side or pre game.

So back to the actual topic of this thread.. PvE 'is' evolving. That's why sorrows furnace came out, that's why there is the next chapter coming out in the first quarter of next year. PvE is what will keep guildwars funded, people will be buying the next part of the story. The PvP improvements will be marginal compared to the sheer scale of the new PvE content.

If it wasn't for the PvE evolutions of new chapters every 6-9 months, then they couldn't sustain a business model of no monthly fees. They have based their financial viability on it.
So if you are eager for more PvE story and fulfillment don't worry it's coming.

Lavendange19 · Oct 14, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

I agree with you. It's the first "MMO" i play and as i am quite addicted i think maybe with too many carrots i would have killed my social life. The day when sorrows furnace realeased, i woke up at 5 AM just to try it before going to work. (hum

).
So let's see what will happen.

Frogdevorer --> i really like your way of thinking about carrots, it's exactly what i could expect the most

Lifeinfusion --> I never thought about that but the upgrade +15% against all mobs is a really good (and realistic) idea. Hope Anet is reading this thread lol

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Oct 14, 2005, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zhou Feng

Umm yes it is PvP centered. I thought you noticed this after some time.

PvE is there to actually prepare you for PvP most of the time.

At any rate what I would also like to see is that ONCE YOU UNLOCK PVE SKILLS FOR THE LOV OF GOD LET THEM be unlocked when you play again with the same primary or secondary profession instead of having to unlock everything again.

Yes, let the character that didnt learn them know them. That would be completely within reason and not a stupid idea at all....

</sarcasm>

Zhou Feng · Oct 14, 2005, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

Yes, let the character that didnt learn them know them. That would be completely within reason and not a stupid idea at all....

</sarcasm>

I thought going through PvE is about skill not time played. What's wrong with having these skill unlocked already? Besides with the low attr its not like its going to be an overpowered skill.

Ah but if you indulge in re unlocking every skill again for your character, even though you already did with another character. Hey go ahead. Its not like I should be worried seeing as I only have one PvE character.

And partly I wont play PvE with another character because Id have to re unlock skills I already did (namely mesmer skills) and why would I waste my time all over again doing something I already did? If its new unlocks sure. But old unlocks?

Goonter · Oct 14, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

PvE is very casual and has small replay value. (for a rpg)
PvP is pretty hardcore and has good/moderate, lasting replay value.

As stated, ideally, if the expansion packs came out on a six to eight months bases, the pve wouldnt suffer as it has now. By the time the content has been exhausted it would be refreshed with a new chapter.
This is how I thought it would work, but thats yet to happen so far.

There came a time when playing this game that I figured out, this isnt a really roleplaying game.
Its a multiplayer story driven adventure game, and a multiplayer teambased competitive combat game.

That being said, instead of seperating the two, (which wouldnt have been a bad idea from the set off, but now that system is in place and familiar it would make a lot of people go "wtf!") Id like to see them expand upon and further perfecting thier basic idea.