Curse

wheel · Oct 25, 2005, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

As part Aero, I'm kinda ashamed people are abusing this.

Yes, Thunderclap is normally pointless, but if the thing is gonna work like a maintained enchantment, it should least end when the energy runs out.

That being said, maybe this should be changed to a type of Maintained Hex. Working in the same way as any Maintained Enchantment.

Suggested Skill Change:
Thunderclap
Elite Hex Spell
As long as this Hex is maintained, whenever target is hit for lighting damage, that target and all nearby enemies are knocked down. Thunderclap ends when you have 0 energy

And this is about the point that Ether Renewal and Ether Prodigy actually become useful for what they were intended to do. Give Elementalists energy to power their attacks. Put on Conjure Lightning, Aura of Restoration, cast Thunderclap and one of the Ethers and you have a working combo. Not as broken as it is now, and not as horrible as it was when it was working right.

I like how in your build you
a) have two elites
b) make Thunderclap cost less energy than its currently bugged state
c) both of the above

Seriously, that's the worst idea I've ever heard. A maintained hex that lets you knock people down AoE whenever you want for no more cost than 1/3 energy per second?

Tactical-Dillusions · Oct 25, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

I don't think i would contribute much here but here goes...

Thunderclap sucks! A ranger just kept myself and a warrior pinned down to the ground for what seemed like eternity. We couldn't even make a step forwards.
Let's hope this and all the other bugs get fixed soon because right now...it aint much fun to play (especially when the players KNOW they are exploiting).
Remember the doppleganger bug and the wave of abuse...and subsequent bans?!
OK, it won't come to that i'm sure but it is in the same context.

doppleganger - xp abuse
thunderclap - faction abuse

Aracos79 · Oct 25, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I love how some people are advocating for not fixing a BUG. It's not like we're talking about an overpowered skill, like Nature's Renewal used to be. We're talking about a skill that does not FUNCTION correctly. Nobody used Thunderclap before it was bugged, and chances are no one will use it after it's fixed. So let's just fix it and we won't have anything to argue about.

Although with Alex saying that ANet is busy getting ready for a convention... it might be a while before we see action on it.

Carinae · Oct 25, 2005, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Someone needs to test Malaise and Wither. Do they still end at zero energy? If not, there's your answer: lock that sucker at zero energy.

Also, is there enough time between knockdowns to get off a Grenth's Balance? Or a Vampiric Touch?

Man With No Name · Oct 25, 2005, 09:10 PM // 21:10

I'll quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe (iQ)

Yes, it's broken. All skills that are supposed to end when something occurs, such as thunderclap, spinal shivers, battle rage, and illusion of weakness, etc., are broken at the moment.

Silly me -- there's me thinking they actually test things. This shows up the lack of support for the PvP side IMO. It's nothing more than bug abuse -- although it does seperate the honourable and skilled teams/players from those that are s**t.

Something like this should have a "hotfix" almost instantly -- been broken for almost a week now -- Thursday, October 20 was when the last update hit.

unienaule · Oct 25, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

I like it. Now some questions for this new improvement:

1. It's like an aoe hex right? Do you pay for the maintainence cost until it has been removed from every single person (or until you cancel it and recast)?

2. What would be the initial cost of casting it? Same as it is now?

It only applies to one person, and knocks down anyone around that one person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

Is nobody using their head in this thread? An easy thing to do. Lightning damage weapon on a warrior. Secondary ele, and use thunderclap. Instant destruction of one target... they use adren, not energy for most damage... get a clue.

Sorry, it's you that needs a clue. We were talking about mantra of concentration. Reading comprehension ftw! If you're using MoC with adrenal skills....

Mysterial · Oct 25, 2005, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

Something like this should have a "hotfix" almost instantly -- been broken for almost a week now -- Thursday, October 20 was when the last update hit.

I have to agree with this. Arenanet has done a great job on a lot of things for this game... but prompt fixing of bugs and balance issues is not one of them.

Aracos79 · Oct 25, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Now I don't GvG so I can't say myself... but how is this bug potentially impacting the World Championship rankings? Are there guilds out there using this?

glenn_rolfe · Oct 25, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

A rank 29 Korean guild wiped us with the Thunderclap bug. It's just plain abuse. I can handle having to plan for specific fotm builds like ranger spike, but to have to add in counters for top ranked teams abusing a skill bug is not good enough.
ANet should take action against those guild by reducing their ranking points by twice what they gained from the abuse. Or what would be better is to make all the elites on their accounts locked again. hehe, that would be sweet.

Dead Panda · Oct 25, 2005, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Just wait til Anet fixes the bug. No need for a "nerf" or anything. It's just a tiny little glitch.

That's all.

entropy · Oct 25, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

we've been waiting a week i think.. that's pretty damn long for such a big bug.

twicky_kid · Oct 25, 2005, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

I have to agree with this. Arenanet has done a great job on a lot of things for this game... but prompt fixing of bugs and balance issues is not one of them.

i think its more of dmg control at this point. we all know that fixing or changing something can cause unforeseen problems. if they fix the bugs what's to say it doesn't screw up things on other skills.

i'd rather them take their time and get it right the first time then fix it and more issues.

not all of the "end" skills are broken. mind wrack still ends 0 energy. not sure about maliese and wither.

personally think that some skills are better w/o the ending machanic working. battle rage is now viable and doesn't really throw the balance of eviscerate off for an elite slot. thunder clap is just completely wrong and needs to be fixed (also spinal shivers). anything that can lock some one down for 15+ seconds doesn't need to exist. other skills that never see play b/c of the "end" machanic might accually see some play and not alter the balance too much.

hope they don't fix battle rage for one reason. if you are a warrior in 8vs8 right now you have 1 option for your elite, eviscerate. all the other elites for warriors never see the light of day. now that is truely unbalanced.

dargon · Oct 26, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

I'll quote:

Silly me -- there's me thinking they actually test things. This shows up the lack of support for the PvP side IMO. It's nothing more than bug abuse -- although it does seperate the honourable and skilled teams/players from those that are s**t.

Something like this should have a "hotfix" almost instantly -- been broken for almost a week now -- Thursday, October 20 was when the last update hit.

Lets see, 400+ skills and you expect that every last one will be completely tested before each update? Gimme a break. As for why it's not fixed, perhaps they are having troubles finding where it's coming from. I work in the software industry, and making a very small change in one part of a program can have an enormous, unanticipated effect elsewhere that can be hard to track down. Now my programs tend to be relatively small, usually intended to process data from one form to another, nothing like the tens or hundreds of thousands of lines of code that make up GW.

Man With No Name · Oct 26, 2005, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

Lets see, 400+ skills and you expect that every last one will be completely tested before each update? Gimme a break. As for why it's not fixed, perhaps they are having troubles finding where it's coming from. I work in the software industry, and making a very small change in one part of a program can have an enormous, unanticipated effect elsewhere that can be hard to track down. Now my programs tend to be relatively small, usually intended to process data from one form to another, nothing like the tens or hundreds of thousands of lines of code that make up GW.

Please spare me the melodramatics -- this bug is painfully obvious and game-breaking. Everyone and their mother is abusing this. Even a minimal amount of testing by a half-blind man with one arm -- would've shown it.

Firstly it shouldn't take almost a week for a fix -- how many people do they have working on the PvP side of Guild Wars -- considering it's sold millions of copies ?? I'm guessing Isaiah Cartwright and erm.... no-one ??

Secondly why would you have to test 400+ skills when making one change to a skill, shouldn't break 10 other unrelated ones. What kind of design is it where changing the energy gain of "Offering of Blood" breaks the damage value of "Eviscerate"

Even if they can't find the fix -- how about a quick roll-back ??

This is only the start.....

How long did it take to get the "Ether Renewal" fix or any other important fix, technical or otherwise -- like the heavy lag in Euro districts.

How about all the skills that are working but completely garbage like "Dwarfen Battle Stance", certain skill trees that are just weak (Fire, Beastmastery...) and some actual new content and game modes for the PvP side.

How about the truely aweful pre-made templates ?? The powerful PvE equipment in PvP (*cough* Lieutenant's Helm *cough*) or the fact that PvP characters still have to grind to unlock skill sets - rather than allowing all access to skills from the get-go.

We've had 1 "Major Update" to the PvP side thus far and half of it was buffs to skills which are still not worth bringing or nerfs to skills. We've only really had 1 great thing happen with the addition of the skill progress bar.

Nightwish · Oct 26, 2005, 01:12 AM // 01:12

LOL at people that says this skill doesnt need to be fixed :P

Able to be countered does not mean a skill is balanced =/

Once thunderclapped, all your character will be doing is situps and eventually dies.

Compared to other hex elites?

Spiteful - I just stop doing any action if possible or get away from my teamates until the hex get removed.

Ineptitude - If I sees it, i either stop attacking or I remove it if i have hex removal.

Thunderclap - With this skill, I cannot run, I cannot heal myself, I cannot remove it myself cause all i can do is sit up and down!!

Do not bring teamates into equation, because I can do the same to other hex elites. Besides, who knows your teamates are doing situps too?

twicky_kid · Oct 26, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Man With No Name

Please spare me the melodramatics -- this bug is painfully obvious and game-breaking. Everyone and their mother is abusing this. Even a minimal amount of testing by a half-blind man with one arm -- would've shown it.

Firstly it shouldn't take almost a week for a fix -- how many people do they have working on the PvP side of Guild Wars -- considering it's sold millions of copies ?? I'm guessing Isaiah Cartwright and erm.... no-one ??

Secondly why would you have to test 400+ skills when making one change to a skill, shouldn't break 10 other unrelated ones. What kind of design is it where changing the energy gain of "Offering of Blood" breaks the damage value of "Eviscerate"

Even if they can't find the fix -- how about a quick roll-back ??

This is only the start.....

How long did it take to get the "Ether Renewal" fix or any other important fix, technical or otherwise -- like the heavy lag in Euro districts.

How about all the skills that are working but completely garbage like "Dwarfen Battle Stance", certain skill trees that are just weak (Fire, Beastmastery...) and some actual new content and game modes for the PvP side.

How about the truely aweful pre-made templates ?? The powerful PvE equipment in PvP (*cough* Lieutenant's Helm *cough*) or the fact that PvP characters still have to grind to unlock skill sets - rather than allowing all access to skills from the get-go.

We've had 1 "Major Update" to the PvP side thus far and half of it was buffs to skills which are still not worth bringing or nerfs to skills. We've only really had 1 great thing happen with the addition of the skill progress bar.

unless you program the game yourself i wouldn't judge about how long it would take or what it will screw up more with a fix.

pvp is all this game is about and more support than pve ever will get. there where nerfs and buffs that pve wanted but pvp did. in the end pvp won that fight.

ether renewal didn't need to be fixed when the game first started. it wasn't until people abused the hell out of was it fixed. euro's lag is related to the restrictions on bandwith in europe. if you want to complain about that talk to you local government and get it changed.

new content will come with expansion releases. if you don't like it play something else in the mean time its a free game. leave when you want come back when you want.

pve gets the unique items and such b/c they have to earn it. only 1 class on the game can benifit from pve and that's warriors b/c of the helm

i guess skill changes doesn't count as "major update" for pvp. everytime skills change it affects pvp no matter how you want to look at it.

this is to be expected. 6 months after release how many updates have we gotton and how many skill bugs? i think this 1 screw up isn't that bad. it will be fixed. in the mean time do what you always do when skills change, adapt to the new metagame. its business as normal.

fenix · Oct 26, 2005, 01:27 AM // 01:27

So let me get this straight. You cast thunderclap on an enemy, run up with a Lightning sword or axe (if ur E/W) and start hitting with attacks, and every one of them does KD to the person and nearby allies? And it doesn't stop until it's removed? Or does it have a timer for how long it lasts. Because at the moment it's kinda messed up. Imagine it, 1 E/W against a whole team of 8 people in a healing ball. They all get killed by the 1 guy, without being able to do anything. Sounds like it needs to be fixed so it removes if you run out of energy or whatever it does.

qwe4rty · Oct 26, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Couple of Points
-How many lines of code do you reckon GW is?

-How many lines of code do you think you could write without a single mistake, in one go?

-Do you think Arena.net just likes to put fixes out there w/o testing? Obviously something went wrong, yet, if they put another instant fix out there, what else could go wrong?
Obviously on a update that they thought about they had this bug, what about an update that they try to get off right away? How many more bugs do you reckon there will be?

-Whose Job is it, and who therefore knows how to execute their Job?

-No matter how well commented a piece of code is, I still think it would be frustrating to have to search for a segment, translate into english, write algorithms, etc on such a huge program without making another major mistake.

-Last, I think Arena.net knows about the bug? I mean, its kind of painfully obvious. I havent played much this week, and I already knew about it relativally fast.

Tactical-Dillusions · Oct 26, 2005, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Correct Talon. The fast recharge means it can be kept up almost indefinitey...even on a non-primary Elementalist.

I saw just how damaging it can be myself. Someone used it on one of the enemy...they disconnected. Same again happened to the next person that got hexed.
It's seriously annoying some folks and yes, heal-balls are out of the question against TC.

LifeInfusion · Oct 26, 2005, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

They won't. We know that this is a bug because it affects all similiar skills. Thunderclap is broken. Spinal Shivers is broken. I haven't confirmed it myself, but reports are that Illusion of Weakness is broken. Most likely all skills with conditional endings are broken. It's pretty clear this is a bug, not a stealth balance change.

I concur, Spinal Shivers does about the same thing and nobody complains about it. I haven't played Guild Wars for about 2 weeks so I wouldn't know what's going on. However, spinal shivers is better anyway since winter doesn't affect it...people don't seem to understand that

BOTH need to be fixed. It should be similar to Protective Bond in that it ENDS after you run out of energy