Curse

Zhou Feng · Oct 25, 2005, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Uhm, its broken. Sister Rosette's comment is equivalent to people who thought Ranger Interrupts were fine when they were broken.
/signed

Bah Ranger interrupts are still annoying as hell. There recharge time makes it a pain in the ass. And yes TC is bad... unless you carry contemplation as a monk.

Nexx · Oct 25, 2005, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazahana

Winter

Create a level 1-8 Spirit, all Elemental damage is Cold damage instead. This Spirit dies after 30-126 seconds.

they have to use lightnign dmg to set it off

Winter FTW

>_< perhaps I'm a noob but can't you just whack the spirit?

Schorny · Oct 25, 2005, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh

someone told me the spell only ends when you reach <0 energy which is impossible. if that was the case it aint bugged.

why do people post if they have no clue?

If someone told you so - fine, he is wrong.

It has been spelled out numerous times:
Thunderclap (or for that matter any skill of that kind) should end, when the caster cannot pay the energy cost caused by the action (in case of thunderclap: the knockdown). So a W/E wouldn't be able to use thunderclap reliable - because of his little energy pool. He would run out of energy soon and then thunderclap ends.

This behaviour is nice (allthough we can discuss about the energy needed for the knockdown) - if done right you can break a healing ball with that in a matter of seconds. It may not be the best elite, but it has it's uses. But atm it never ends (unless it runs out or gets removed) - therefore beeing overpowered.

It's like Mantra of Resolve (a maybe better example) - it should end if you get interrupted and cannot pay the cost for it - therefore making you vulnerable for the next interrupt.

This is fine - you get drained by constant interrupts and then - it ends. But now you only need to recast it, wenn it runs out. You just wait until you get enough energy to cast that spell. You may have 0 energy left, but you still cannot be interrupted.

This is wrong. This is bugged. So please stop saying it works as intended or that this 'fix' was good. It is a fact that it is bugged and it is a fact that this bug overpowers it. And it is a fact that it still isn't perfect and still can be countered. But let me take the example from someone else:
Consider a hex that will kill you after 3 seconds (like lightning surge, but much stronger). Just because you can interrupt and remove that hex doesn't make a balanced skill, right?

unienaule · Oct 25, 2005, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

You may have 0 energy left, but you still cannot be interrupted.

What are you going to be doing with 0 energy that anyone wants to interrupt? Res sig, maybe.

Schorny · Oct 25, 2005, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

What are you going to be doing with 0 energy that anyone wants to interrupt? Res sig, maybe.

Please read my post.

Sure it is bad to be drained but you skill can cast (after you got energy back) and still can't be interrupted. Imagine a +17 energy weapon set and a -5 energy weapon set. You have +28 energy, cast a 5 energy spell, switch weapon sets and can't be interrupted but still have a nice energy pool.

I said: it is not perfect, but BUGGED and that makes it much stronger than intended.

Perishiko ReLLiK · Oct 25, 2005, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

What are you going to be doing with 0 energy that anyone wants to interrupt? Res sig, maybe.

Is nobody using their head in this thread? An easy thing to do. Lightning damage weapon on a warrior. Secondary ele, and use thunderclap. Instant destruction of one target... they use adren, not energy for most damage... get a clue.

It's not a good thing for ele's, it's good for other reason's...

To those saying don't "fix" this -- You should be hung. It's broken, bugged, not working. It's not an imbalance issue, it's the fact that the skill doesn't work like it says it does. This would be the same case if spinal shivers didn't work right.

toastgodsupreme · Oct 25, 2005, 01:49 PM // 13:49

So what happens if they fix the description to reflect how it's currently working and leave Thunderclap as is?

Are you all going to b!tch about it still?

Winter is the perfect counter. A good monk will be ripping those hexes off people left and right. Now, you'll argue that the monk has better things to do than go around ripping off hexes, but oh wait, that's kind of our job.

This is just another skill with another perfect counter. Spam some winters and it's over. A team that builds themselves based on Thunderclap is EASILY stopped if another team comes prepared. Go in with cold resistant gear and winter is now doing two things:
1. Preventing Thunderclap
2. Providing you with some extra defense against elemental because you were smart and brought cold resist gear.

Arturo02 · Oct 25, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

all you who say everything is fine and nothing is broken, have you even done any pvp in the last few days?

It is literally unplayable right now.

Mysterial · Oct 25, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

So what happens if they fix the description to reflect how it's currently working and leave Thunderclap as is?

They won't. We know that this is a bug because it affects all similiar skills. Thunderclap is broken. Spinal Shivers is broken. I haven't confirmed it myself, but reports are that Illusion of Weakness is broken. Most likely all skills with conditional endings are broken. It's pretty clear this is a bug, not a stealth balance change.

Missy Osiris · Oct 25, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Koreans been using the bug almost on every arena battles ive come across
running on 2 rangers/1 warrior/1 elem all using thunder clap ..

MSecorsky · Oct 25, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Two things are glaringly obvious at this point.

1. There's a counter, Winter. Someone should be carrying this into the arenas until....

2. It's broken. Needs a serious fixing, and quick.

Yes, it can be countered, yes it's broke. I think everyone can agree with these two points?

I just wish Alex or someone would drop in a quick word...

Schorny · Oct 25, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Winter is the perfect counter.

1) start reading
2) start thinking
3) never post such crap again

thx

MSecorsky · Oct 25, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

1) start reading
2) start thinking
3) never post such crap again

thx

Clarification, please. Winter is indeed an effective counter.

You disagree? Why?

toastgodsupreme · Oct 25, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

1) start reading
2) start thinking
3) never post such crap again

thx

So what are you arguing?

That Winter isn't a counter to it?

That the fact that it can be countered it moot because the skill doesn't match the description (like that's never happened before)?

The fact that a monk or mesmer can remove the hexes and so there's an alternative to the winter countering it?

Or that you think Winter isn't the perfect counter because someone can just kill your spirit?

What point are you trying to get across here?

I'm still not seeing at being overpowered. Sure we're getting people screaming "Oh shit me! The arenas and tombs and HoH are being overrun with Thunderclap teams!" Ooooooookay. It's the new FOTM. There is a way to fight against them. It's not like this skill in it's current incarnation is unstoppable.

So the skill doesn't match the description. Maybe the skill isn't broken, maybe the description is wrong.

I'd love to see this skill stay as is and the description updated to reflect it's current way of working. Remember, you nerf it for PvP, you nerf it for PvE. I can't wait to team up with warriors who run around in PvE with Thunderclap builds.

MSecorsky · Oct 25, 2005, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

So what are you arguing?

That Winter isn't a counter to it?

That the fact that it can be countered it moot because the skill doesn't match the description (like that's never happened before)?

The fact that a monk or mesmer can remove the hexes and so there's an alternative to the winter countering it?

Or that you think Winter isn't the perfect counter because someone can just kill your spirit?

What point are you trying to get across here?

I'm still not seeing at being overpowered. Sure we're getting people screaming "Oh shit me! The arenas and tombs and HoH are being overrun with Thunderclap teams!" Ooooooookay. It's the new FOTM. There is a way to fight against them. It's not like this skill in it's current incarnation is unstoppable.

So the skill doesn't match the description. Maybe the skill isn't broken, maybe the description is wrong.

I'd love to see this skill stay as is and the description updated to reflect it's current way of working. Remember, you nerf it for PvP, you nerf it for PvE. I can't wait to team up with warriors who run around in PvE with Thunderclap builds.

Although I agree with you in a lot of this, the skill is indeed broken. It used to work according to description, doesn't now, IIRC.

hcl40u · Oct 25, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

I tested to see if protective bond was the same way but only had a chance to do that once. It did end with 0 energy but I need to test again to make sure.

toastgodsupreme · Oct 25, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Although I agree with you in a lot of this, the skill is indeed broken. It used to work according to description, doesn't now, IIRC.

Ah, I missed the part where it was once functioning as the description said.

My bad on that one.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Oct 25, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

As part Aero, I'm kinda ashamed people are abusing this.

Yes, Thunderclap is normally pointless, but if the thing is gonna work like a maintained enchantment, it should least end when the energy runs out.

That being said, maybe this should be changed to a type of Maintained Hex. Working in the same way as any Maintained Enchantment.

Suggested Skill Change:
Thunderclap
Elite Hex Spell
As long as this Hex is maintained, whenever target is hit for lighting damage, that target and all nearby enemies are knocked down. Thunderclap ends when you have 0 energy

And this is about the point that Ether Renewal and Ether Prodigy actually become useful for what they were intended to do. Give Elementalists energy to power their attacks. Put on Conjure Lightning, Aura of Restoration, cast Thunderclap and one of the Ethers and you have a working combo. Not as broken as it is now, and not as horrible as it was when it was working right.

toastgodsupreme · Oct 25, 2005, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

As part Aero, I'm kinda ashamed people are abusing this.

Yes, Thunderclap is normally pointless, but if the thing is gonna work like a maintained enchantment, it should least end when the energy runs out.

That being said, maybe this should be changed to a type of Maintained Hex. Working in the same way as any Maintained Enchantment.

Suggested Skill Change:
Thunderclap
Elite Hex Spell
As long as this Hex is maintained, whenever target is hit for lighting damage, that target and all nearby enemies are knocked down. Thunderclap ends when you have 0 energy

And this is about the point that Ether Renewal and Ether Prodigy actually become useful for what they were intended to do. Give Elementalists energy to power their attacks. Put on Conjure Lightning, Aura of Restoration, cast Thunderclap and one of the Ethers and you have a working combo. Not as broken as it is now, and not as horrible as it was when it was working right.

I like it. Now some questions for this new improvement:

1. It's like an aoe hex right? Do you pay for the maintainence cost until it has been removed from every single person (or until you cancel it and recast)?

2. What would be the initial cost of casting it? Same as it is now?

BannyD · Oct 25, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

Most likely all skills with conditional endings are broken.

aura of the lich as well as blood renewal are broken in that matter too