Curse

superbinnie · Oct 25, 2005, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Hundred Blades doesn't deliver! How about Hamstring at 5 energy and a 10 second recharge as an elite instead? As it stands, sword warriors seem slightly more condition based than the others; run with that instead of giving such a paltry damage skill for an elite.

twicky_kid · Oct 26, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by superbinnie

Hundred Blades doesn't deliver! How about Hamstring at 5 energy and a 10 second recharge as an elite instead? As it stands, sword warriors seem slightly more condition based than the others; run with that instead of giving such a paltry damage skill for an elite.

its not used for dmg. its used for adrenaline charging. for great justice and hundred blades should instantly charge all of your adrenaline skills. my only issue with 100 blades is the recharge is horrible for a skill that's not really for dmg.

Man With No Name · Oct 26, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

That'd be a terrible choice for making an elite -- I'd pick Hundred Blades (E) over Hamstring (E) anyday

Mend Ailment ftw !!

As it stands why not just bring Hamstring and Hundred Blades (E) or either....

Also why even make it elite ?? Making Hamstring elite would be like duplicating Skull Crack (E).... i.e. Bad Move

NatalieD · Oct 26, 2005, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Er, he's not saying that Hamstring should be made elite, he's saying that there should be an elite version of it in the same way that Crippling Shot is an elite version of Pin Down. I think. At least, that would make more sense.

I don't know why he felt the need to mention Hundred Blades, though. It's not like there can only be one elite for an attribute.

Morganas · Oct 26, 2005, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Sword warriors are quite a bit *less* condition based than axe warriors.

The reason crippling shot is passable is that you can put it on many different players ranged. A warrior can only reliably condition one target, and making hamstring more spammable wouldn't be that helpful. You still have to take sprint to turn off frenzy, so I don't see the point.

Also, the great thing about swords is its lack of reliance upon an elite, the weapon of choice for taking advantage of your secondary class. Hundred blades is pretty useful for certain things too, its rapid adrenaline generation makes it good for fear me energy denial warriors.

teny10 · Oct 26, 2005, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Swordsmanship needs another elite. Come on anet, yall know that sword is the most commonly used warrior weapon in myths. It's associated to Knights/Paladin, yet it's not so good in GW, especially at the elite spot. I want something like cleave or an elite version of FF or something.

Guardian of the Light · Oct 27, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Ok who said 100 blades is not meant to be a damage dealing attack thats not true sure it cna be used for charging adriniline but if you conbine it with a conjure or any other +damage effect for a while it can double that damage just look at its closest relivitive duel shot its pretty good when conbined with preparations and a conjure.

My conclusion: hundred blade cannot be judged by its sole power but by its combos that it can produce

But I agree they need more sword elites they got plety of good non-elite sword skills but you still need a few good elites. However if Anet is looking at this PLZ don't put it at the end of the story in the new expandtion like 100 blades is.

Mercury Angel · Oct 27, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Hundred Blades does great damage when it criticals, and works in best synchrony with per hit effects, such as Conjures, Orders, Strength of Honour, Zealous/Vampiric mods, and various Nature Rituals for a 2x larger than normal effect.

Edit: Somehow, I managed to forget it was an AoE skill, regardless of how small the AoE is. Against 2 enemies, you've quadrupled everything, against 3, you've septupled it all, 4, you've octupled, and 5, you've decupled, not to mention in one skill use, you've maxxed out your adrenaline.
And there are skills more focused towards PvE, and skills more focused towards PvP. Necrotic Traversal is a PvP skill, pretty much. Hundred Blades is best in PvE.

Hamstring, on the other hand, even if it cost 5, lasted 15 seconds, and recharged in 10, would still not see much use. In general, it's easier just to throw up Sprint and not worry about them removing the effect.

On a related note to a prior post, a list of all skill trees with only 1 elite;

Elementalist
*Earth
*Fire

Mesmer
*Fast Casting

Monk
*Unlinked

Necromancer
*Unlinked

Ranger
*Beast Mastery
*Unlinked

Warrior
*Swordsmanship
*Unlinked

Perishiko ReLLiK · Oct 27, 2005, 04:41 AM // 04:41

Well, with the "Iway" teams, it could even be usefull, using hundred blades would equal twice the health from pred, and twice the damage from the necro enchantments. Or, using conjure abilities, or strength of honor.

This was originaly made an elite when it was paired with Illusionary Weaponry, which made for some wickedly crazy kills.

superbinnie · Oct 28, 2005, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Aha! You all assume I'm ignorant of the nuances of Hundred Blades. Not so. All of you made very good points about it's uses; charging adrenaline, combos, ability to do large damage on the cheap, all of this I know. And have used.

So why, pray tell, do I say Hundred Blades doesn't deliver? Because if I want to kill something, I go Axe. I don't mess around with tricky skills with variable results, I Cleave and Eviscerate. Axe does do some nice conditional work, but it's main focus has always been it's larger damage potential. Similarly, Hammers have their own strong point with the knockdown. Swords don't really have a big trait like that, other than their ease of use. I'm thinking if you give them an elite snare, Swords will come into their own as the "utility" choice. Offset the slightly lower damage with the ability to keep a target in front of you, see how many people don't start evaluating their methods.

Of course, Crippled is easily dealt with, and in some cases a liability as any condition can make your target easier to heal, depending on a Monk's skillbar. That's part of balancing the game; I want a reasonable skill with some reasonable applications, not something that'll have to be nerfed in a few weeks.

Someone mentioned Axes being more condition based than Swords. The Axe conditions all take a good long while to warm up, hinge a little more on an attack chain, and weakness just doesn't help against many of the targets a Warrior's after. By contrast, Sword conditions are more readibly accessible and applicable to a wider range of targets. However, Axe is widely held to be the better for doing damage, while Swords almost need Bleeding to help crank up their damage sometimes. I stand by my statement.

Someone mentioned taking Sprint to douse Frenzy as a superior and already existing solution to my problems. You know, it's really not the same. Take a walk on down to Tombs and get kited for four hours, then tell me Sprint is good enough. Plus, you realize I'm not using Frenzy anymore, don't you? Tiger's Fury is the only way to fly ever since that evil little update. You know the one. But hey, that's a different thread.

Someone mentioned did I mean convert Hamstring to an elite or add a similar elite; I'd prefer the latter, personally, but for balance of the game would be prepared to accept the former.

All in all, you raised some very good points in defense of Hundred Blades, but didn't convince me we don't need another Swordsmanship elite. And that's what really sparked all of this for me, looking at the skill bars and seeing how many Hammer elites, how many Axe elites, and how many Sword elites I had available to me. I fear the point I'm trying to make has been obscured by my exasperated, ill-concieved thread title, but there we are.

Guardian of the Light · Oct 28, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

So why, pray tell, do I say Hundred Blades doesn't deliver? Because if I want to kill something, I go Axe. I don't mess around with tricky skills with variable results, I Cleave and Eviscerate. Axe does do some nice conditional work, but it's main focus has always been it's larger damage potential. Similarly, Hammers have their own strong point with the knockdown. Swords don't really have a big trait like that, other than their ease of use. I'm thinking if you give them an elite snare, Swords will come into their own as the "utility" choice. Offset the slightly lower damage with the ability to keep a target in front of you, see how many people don't start evaluating their methods.

Try to survive my ulimate sword combo without using healing skills or prevention damage skills Conjure+100 blades>Pure Strike> Gasrath Slash> Final Thrust = X_X

True it may take a while to charge up Gasrath and Final but that is sped up by 100 blades and I can wait a few sec for your doom

If I want to kill something that always delivers me a kill in PvE against most non-bosses.

So as to stacking damage dealing skills SWORDS do the job the better then axes which is not agreed by IWAY "Pros"

Jetdoc · Oct 28, 2005, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by superbinnie

I Cleave and Eviscerate.

Kinda hard to both of those at once, eh?

Kai Nui · Oct 28, 2005, 04:16 AM // 04:16

"Finish what you're eating before asking for seconds"

-proverb invented by me indicating sarcastically that WW or Whiny Warriors need to:

"Walk in someone elses shoes before commenting"

-because you're a f'kin' idiot.

id0l · Oct 28, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Try to survive my ulimate sword combo without using healing skills or prevention damage skills Conjure+100 blades>Pure Strike> Gasrath Slash> Final Thrust = X_X

True it may take a while to charge up Gasrath and Final but that is sped up by 100 blades and I can wait a few sec for your doom

If I want to kill something that always delivers me a kill in PvE against most non-bosses.

So as to stacking damage dealing skills SWORDS do the job the better then axes which is not agreed by IWAY "Pros"

This is a joke right?

Final thrust is junk unless the target is below 50% health. Making your whole entire chain conditional. You seriously use 100 Blades in PvP? Can you provide good reason? One extra strike of adrenaline every X seconds? Miniscule damage boost? Much better ways to accomplish that.

100 Blades is PvE oriented. Most people can see this. It is unfortunate, yes, that there isn't another elite sword skill or two.

As for conjure, well, that can be removed quite easily, and you can't recast for a whole minute.

Somehow I still don't think your "ultimate combo" can beat Eviscerate/Executioners Strike/Penetrating Blow. Try buffing a warrior with that combo.

But whatever.

NatalieD · Oct 28, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morganas

The reason crippling shot is passable is that you can put it on many different players ranged. A warrior can only reliably condition one target, and making hamstring more spammable wouldn't be that helpful. You still have to take sprint to turn off frenzy, so I don't see the point.

What if the skill did something else besides just cripple? Like bonus damage, or can't-be-blocked-or-evaded, or cripple and bleeding both, or something?

Morganas · Oct 28, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Both cripple and bleed would be sweet, since it would basically function as two sword skills in one. Still though, not worth taking, as axe damage will still be higher if you go axe with an axe elite, and sword's one advantage over it will still only be faster adrenaline generation with hb or no reliance on an elite, which means your sword build most likely won't have use for it.

What sword needs are some good high damage non-elites that rely on something like the bleeding condition (more stuff like gash), like axe does with deep wounds, and then add a good elite to inflict said condition, like a cripple/elite combo ability.

It'd also be nice if it had some powerful high cooldown energy attack abilities, so flourish could see some use.

superbinnie · Oct 29, 2005, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Kinda hard to both of those at once, eh?

Um, yeah, um, was this really necessary? Let's have a real criticism, not a stating the assumed to be obviously understood like it's a comeback.

A few of you mentioned combining current Swordsmanship skills to make an elite; Hamstring plus Sever Artery, Hamstring plus damage, that sort of thing. I hadn't thought of that, and though care would have to be taken to insure balance, it could be a very viable option. Making it a reasonably Adrenal skill would probably be the way to do it.

I'm going to have to laugh at the Hundred Blades plus Conjure whatever, I'm afraid. You do as much damage just putting the points from that element into Swordsmanship and Strength much of the time, and you don't have to sacrifice your Zealous or Vampiric blades. Plus, elemental weapons on a Warrior has always seemed more like a PvE tactic, anyway; it's fine to select the right element for the region and wail on whatever poor mob is around, I do it all the time, but in PvP I want more power than that. Elemental damage negates the benefits from Orders and Winnowing, and though I don't IWAY very often this is also worth considering. Also, I play Necro and Mesmer once in a while, and I tell you I enjoy stripping the enchantments off of W/E's more than I should. Finally, by the time you warm up that combo, any caster worth his salt has kited you, and any W/R with Tiger's Fury has totally whooped you.

Yes, yes, lately I favor the W/R. Setting aside IWAY, there's just no more reliable way to get your DPS up that much for a Warrior these days.

Let's see, what else? I didn't actually expect such rich discussion, and I thank you all for good or for worse. Walk in my shoes before you tell me to walk in someone else's. If you save Gash, that plus Final Thrust can make an adequate, if not wonderful, spike out, but I'd take Eviscerate for that purpose any day of the week. I have always considered Flourish more of an orphaned Swordsmanship elite than anything else, but oddly enough I get the most use out of it when I'm playing an R/W of some sort. And what's with the hate on IWAY? I love it, personally, as it fills a hilarious role in the whole scheme of Tombs; it's easy for an organized, skillful team to beat no matter how good it is, but it cleans out the weird, less effective builds that might just happen to have what it takes to kill the more creative teams I run with.

Anyway, thanks again for all the decent thought that's been put into my suggestion here.