Curse

Commodore_Mcawesome · Jul 30, 2005, 02:44 AM // 02:44

As a monk, I fear nothing more than a necro or mesmer (or, god-forbid, a N/Me). Backfire a monk and then spam them with hexes (especially life-degen) and they're likely dead, or at least rendered useless and take massive damage. *shudder*

Iceciro · Jul 30, 2005, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Honestly, the only problem my necro ever has is the same problem my hydromancer has - Nature's Renewal. Doubling the casting time on hexes just proves to be too much for a necro to handle and be combat-effective. Also, all you have to do is lay down another NR and remove all the hexes I have dumped on you.

Aside from NR, necro is a great versitile class. I will say, however, that in my experince, necro is better suited as a secondary than a primary. But without hex removal/NR, an angry necro can really ruin your day.

Hell Marauder · Jul 30, 2005, 07:01 AM // 07:01

People want healers because they like to inflict big damage and want others to watch their behind.
People want warriors because they want someone tough to block for them.
People want elementalists because they want to kill more faster.

Now, if those ignorant people play only these three classes in their characters' primary/secondary, how can you expect them to know about other classes' skills and values? Hence the discrimination, all comes from one thing: ignorance. Hopefully, time and experience will educate these people values of other classes.

zwitterion · Aug 15, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Figured I'd throw a reply in just so this thread gets a bit fatter

I feel your pain, I've given up trying to get invites at ToA completely now, it's either create one or sit around for hours. But what's to be done? Everyone says necros rule, but clearly they don't rule enough to accumulate a sort of reputation in the community. Honestly I think there needs to be some changes to the class to affect that - namely in the blood and death schools (curses are, as many have agreed, quite awesome. But they're not very exclusively "necro" and it's sad to have an entire profession with only one really good attribute). Personally I think that either of the following would probably do wonders:

- Tweak the class to offer more support; seriously when was the last time a necro was picked up for anything but WOP and ritual (or similar)? I have trouble filling out a good support skill bar with necro skills.

- Add some pretty flashy stuff; Im half convinced eles owe a large of their rep to the fact that one of their spells involves chunks of fire raining down from the sky. Monks sheathe people in waves of blue-white healing light, and often as not, sparkles. What do we get? Sometimes some green mist comes out of our toes. I'm not saying eye-candy is going to make all the difference, but along with a little added utility (i'm looking at you, Death spells) it could help a LOT.

Lordcaster · Aug 15, 2005, 10:11 PM // 22:11

Without a doubt a necro makes a healing monks life a great deal easier.Hate it when we do a tough mission without one.

zwitterion · Aug 15, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lordcaster

Without a doubt a necro makes a healing monks life a great deal easier.Hate it when we do a tough mission without one.

but does a necro with BiP beat just taking another monk...

Stell Pol · Sep 08, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

That's a good question. I think if you have a good monk or two monks a necro would be better because they can do more than help the monk, if the necro is built right. If you have a mediocre monk you might want another.

But on the forum topic, from my experience, Mesmer's have the hardest time finding groups. I don't have a mesmer but my roomate does and I see them standing around all the time. Necro's can well of blood/power/whatever, help the monk, debilitate the warriors or just do lots of damage. The mesmer seems less variable.

Just to join the cryfest, I have a Ranger. All people want me for is pulling and if they already have a ranger for that, I'm usually not wanted. I know it's not as bad as being a necro or mesmer but I do know how you feel.

Axis · Sep 08, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

I m a N/Me and I just want to say that I have very rearly problems finding a group for UW, FoW or the Tombs. I m Rank 2 so I m experienced, but even before.. in the begining it wasnt hard for me to find a group. I allways say what I m using (blood and curses) and what exp or rank i have and I often get invitations.
I think that people that underastemate necroes dont know how great support class necroes are. One reason for that may be that many necroes are trying to do lots of dmg, play them on a wrong way, and thats not the necroes strogest side. Necroes are a support class, try to play them that way and experienced players from other classes wil apricate what you are doing.
I often hear positive feedback form other classes, like I m a ace

and thing like that... but they also tell me that many people dont know how to realy play a necro.

Just tell the monks that you are using Blood is Power and they wil love you.

Axis · Sep 08, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

When it comes to mesmers.. at least in the Tombs.. I dont think they have that hard time to find a group. Experienced mesmers are everyones nightmare in the tombs and in most cases after the monks people go for mesmers. But again.. its all about how experianced the player is.

Rayea · Sep 08, 2005, 03:55 PM // 15:55

ok, necros...mesmer and anyone that wants to get aninvite these days...little tip...

TRY MAKING THE CHARACTER A WOMAN VERSION

i get random invites often, but once they realise im not asended, they go away, simple as that.
and this is with my necromancer monk.

fact is, people are looking first at the main class, which is easy to see by the armour the charater is wearing, and the appearance.
easy to spot a monk, but harder to spot a monk/mesmer.

and yeah, i know it shouldnt matter what gender your charater is, but to be honest, most of the time, a lot of folks seem to just want to act like horny teens.

most people not being the *smart* ones, though....

Lemmy · Sep 08, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

One thing is that rank in pve doesn't meen nothing, I was once in group where ele claimed to be 5th rank one. As it came after few groups in FoW he had max energy 25 as he claimed (exhaustion)... because he "took his pvp air build with himself..."
Also "EXPERIENCED UBER RANKED TEAM is often group of rushers and usually don't have idea that difference between pve and pvp is something like basketball and volleyball, we have ball, we use hands to to hadle it, we score points, but overall strategy is different and game is different.

Back to the subject, it saddens me that Necros and Mesmers have huge problems for getting a group. Most people create 3Mo(2-3)W(2-3)E, because
<sarcasm mode as commonly believed>Eles do more damage than everyone else, Warriors are needed so mobs don't attack me, monks keep us alive - if we are dead, that meant that we had noob monks, Mesmers do nothing, although backfire is the only great mesmer spell, Rangers have crappy damage, their pet suck, but sometimes traps are usefull, Necros... hmm what actually do necros, I don't know any of their skills, but I remember, they just raise these low lvl worthless skeletons, also it is important to have all Warriors W/Mo because they are the best... etc </sarcasm mode>

Lu Cheng Ying · Sep 08, 2005, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

I forget where, but I remember reading somewhare about a lvl 14 necro who ascended, without being rushed by anyone.

He was a very good player. He basicaly led the teams himself and won over the higher leveled players he was grouped with.

I was in a group with a lvl7 necro doing Althea's Ashes. We all died and he wasted the mobs at temple...rezzed us just so we all can finish the mission.

The problem why people avoid Necros & Mesmers are that it really takes skills to play these two classes properly (almost true with Rangers, too).

Most kids simply lack the skill to play these classes. Because of the inability to play the classes, they automatically think individuals that do play them are useless" or "weak".

The flipside is true, too, though. Some people that do play these classes just plain suck. Because of this fact, people that don't understand these classes tend to avoid them.

I've tried to invite Necros & Mesmers as much as possible, but sometimes they just don't know their role!

I play both Elementalist & Mesmer and I can tell you Domination Mesmer is quite devastating! (Add some tricks and Me can far more damage than an Ele at times.)

Just last night, while doing Grenth's Footprint, we had a really good Necro with us and she saved our but (we were all dead, again, except for her...it's it's not like she wasn't fighting or anything either!)

Lu Cheng Ying · Sep 08, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Eld

In reply to earlier comments about Mesmers, I figured I'll reflect my thoughts on them. My main is a Mesmer/Elementalist (straight Mesmer though). I love him to death, and I have a pretty decent build that allows me to interrupt and annoy any type of character I come in contact with. While this may be good for PvP, I'll wholeheartedly agree that in PvE, Mesmers have more of a rough time proving their worth. Sure, I know I'm doing something. But a good example is bringing my level 20 Mesmer back to earlier missions to help out guildies. Sure, I'm level 20, have all of my high-level skills, good items, runed armor, etc. etc. But each fight still takes time to finish. A mesmer is just not an overpowering character in PvE. End of story. The only problem is that people often times confuse that with being worthless. My hat's off to the Mesmers out there.

Mesmer not overpowering for PvE? Are you nuts? Then you must not know how to play a mesmer correctly. I can do 580 dmg (AoE) in <15s. (My Ele can do 680 dmg in <15s, but remember, Ele attacks are blocked by armor). (And, no, I won't give my build!)

IMHO, my Me is far more useful and devastating than my E.

The problem with people disrespecting Mesmers are that our attacks aren't flashy like the Elementalists. Most times, I'm the one doing the actual killing, but the Elementalist is the one getting the congratulation, even the player clearly sucked!

That's how it is with Necros, too. Mesmers & Necros are silent killers.

I've been in groups where the players congratulate themselves for being so good at mowing the mobs, not realizing that it was my Empathy, Backfire or Chaos storm that brought the mobs down.

aeronox · Sep 09, 2005, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Lu Cheng, I experience exactly the same thing. I'm convinced that the reasons Necro and Mesmers aren't viewed as vital to a balanced team are:
a) All the noobs who can't play these classes
b) All the experienced W/E/Mo who tried, but didn't understand it
c) Most people would rather do direct damage or direct healing than block attacks or 'ripen' the enemy with curses.

I think its a tough predicament to mend, because the only way to fix it, is by getting more Mes and Nec into PvP. Anyone who considers Mesmer a "tag-along" or "filler" class would quickly be mistaken by a good Domination Mesmer; indeed, Mesmers are best when they have a very focused role, such as anti-spellcaster (or even more specific, anti-healer, juice them up with hexes and a Chaos Storm they didn't notice, and you've got a monk with little energy left to help his team. And mes can do this in a few seconds)
So, basically, give us a go. We do more behind the scenes than you can imagine. Perhaps you should learn to appreciate our ability to cause mayhem. We don't do 600 dmg with AoE or Knockdown and whatever, but haven't you noticed how the enemy dies quicker when it has a purple arrow beside their health bar... or for some reason the enemy monk isn't healing? Are you hacking away, and suddenly you realise you're at 20% HP and going down fast?
I agree that Necro spells should be made more fancy lookin. Their bodies have a very unique appearance, and I think their skills should be much cooler. Death Swarm, a basic skill, should look cool. Perhaps even have their skills "dim" the lighting? A very spooky effect could boost their appeal.
I have tried getting into Tombs with Me/E, and I am ignored... and usually there are two or three other mesmers lfg... teams are too happy to go with W/E/Mo and blast their way through. its just not cool.
My two cents.

FrogDevourer · Sep 09, 2005, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lu Cheng Ying

I can do 580 dmg (AoE) in <15s. (My Ele can do 680 dmg in <15s, but remember, Ele attacks are blocked by armor). (And, no, I won't give my build!)

No offense intended, but many readers might think you're just bragging if not lying. I agree that mesmers and necros are very useful in a group, but what's the point of keeping your super powerful PvE mesmer build for yourself.

Rayea · Sep 09, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

scared that it will become listed in a webby, then hundreds of cookie-cutter mesmer killing machines arive, and they nerf the mesmer build, and them along with it, perhaps?
(to FrogDevourer)

GhostPoet · Sep 09, 2005, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Yup. Everytime I play I spend at least a half-hour trying to form a group since my Guild has out-leveled me.

That's why I don't play GW as much as I normally would...because I don't want to sit and spam for an hour just to play the game. And since the devs don't see fit to make this any easier...I play CoH more.(I can get a group of 8 in less than 10 mins.heh)

CHunterX · Oct 17, 2005, 09:31 AM // 09:31

I always love having a Necromancer in my team for any mission/quest/FoW/UW. The damage-ignoring, self-supporting Necromancer (lol I made a rhyme) is always welcome, and slap in Blood is Power or Well of Power or even Blood Ritual and they are that many times more helpful. When you are looking for a group, try advertising the fact you use BIP or WOP. The problem I think your facing is the fact most (ignorant) players see Necromancer and automaticaly think they rely on corpses (i.e. Death Necros) and when your fighting enemys that don't have a corpse, you'll be useless.

=HT=Ingram · Oct 17, 2005, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Its a shame really. A typical PUG can be anything, but the Farmers only want certain classes for Smitting and agro pulling... The fact is the number of people actually PLAYING the game instead of farming it is quickly decreasing. many will have to wait till the next chapter to get some of these kinds of players out of the current area. thus showing True gaming possibilities again. Its unfortunate but true. Look at it this way. 9 chances out of 10 you would not want to be with those groups anyways, cause they will only go about 1/4th the way through an area and then dump the instance, cause all they are doing is farming... I want to see a REAL cost to this happening someday. like a penalty. not being allowed to go right back to the same thing you just left after leaving it more then twice without a return to outpost or mission complete. Or better yet. Only able to take items from the instance if you COMPLETE the quest or mission. Thus farming is gone FOREVER. Will never happen, but I can dream...

yuna of spira · Oct 25, 2005, 09:52 AM // 09:52

I see that many who have responded on the last 2 pages have gotten it more or less right on of why necs are hated but i thought i would still add in my little opinion.

I have been playing my max lvl nec in UW, FoW, team arena, random, hoh and other pve for a long time now and this is what I have found and my theories why people hate necs over warriors and eles and monks

A lot of the community is very one dimensional and single minded of what they do. They copy off of ideas as soon as they find out that people are winning with the build (IWAY). They take every profession as basic nutshell approach of the purpose of the profession. They want the warrior because he can live long and still do nice dmg sometimes. They want ele cuz what he does is dmg. And they want a healer cuz he freakin healz. All of these things are true but their assumptions about necs and mezzers and rangers fall very short in which they think of them as anti-ppl. So they probably wonder, why would I need an anti-person when I can just have a nuking ele kill them in the first place. These 3 simple builds require very little skill in terms of what to do because there's very little flexibility in what they can do. How many times have you had to ask what type of ele someone is? or what type of warrior? They are simple characters. IWAY doesnt need any real hard organization. The only ppl using support to help other members of the group is necros (with tainted)!!!

A classic example of how simple minded most gw players are of what chars can do was one guy who thought of professions by armor and healing and sustainability for how good they are. In a post some guy who used warrior only all the time said to my FoC build forum that its weak with all those necros because a couple of nukers and warriors could come in and just carve em up.

If a group doesn't want you when you advertise being a curses spiteful necro/mez lfg, then you prob didnt want those snobs to party with in the first place. Having a guild that plays a lot and is open to using many builds is the best bet to go with if you love playing necro like I do.

btw, in answer to the comment that everyone is anti-warrior and thats why necs arent liked as much cuz thats what they do isnt looking strong enough at the whole picture. to go anti-warrior with a ele or ranger requires specific build sets that can take up your entire 8 slots. Flexibility is the charm that gets it done with smart necro and mezzer builds. A good build and group must be flexible to most situations given to them. And not only are necs anti-warrior, but a N/Me gives you anti-physical and anti-monks with the nec part and anti-casting of ele and other necs and mezzers with the mesmer skills.

Sry to have taken up so much room, but I've been wanting to rant about really simple-minded guild wars community that ruins the part of variability in the game especially for people who like to run the fun and extremely hard-to-pull-off-because-of-the-required-skill-level FoC build. It does to IWAY what happens in prison showers.

Yuna Of Spira-I'm up for FoC almost anytime, just whisper me