Curse

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

I understand when an intelligent species targets the mages (artillery) and the monk (healer) in order to cut of service to the line. What I do not udnerstand is why every sowbug, scorpion, floating fishface, and energized weed has the intellect of a military educated tactical unit with command, control, and communications nets superior to anything deployed in the field by Earths best technological forces.

Why is it that every creature in the game targets the healer? Not just the intelligent ones, but everyone. What kind of perfume is Alesia wearing? And why did Dunham, Claude, and Orion put on the same perfume. Or is it that warriors don't bathe and the bugs in Tyria, which live in the dirt, have a preferrence for cleaned meat?

It seems to me that three forms of tactical assault make sense over all. There is the combat with AI of sentients expected to have 90+ IQ/EQ ratings and act accordingly. These would perform in a regular military tactical or strategic manner. Then there are the other two: 1. The arachnid type that sets the ambush, and 2. The rest which attack closest without regard to tactical or strategic advantage.

So far I have seen bugs run past my warriors to gnaw on Alesia and Orion first. I'm convinced its their perfume. And in Orion's case, I'm simply perplexed. With Alesia, well - I've played long enough just to expect to resurrect her at the end of each encounter.

Does anyone else think there is an AI problem that could be tweaked here?

Fitz Rinley

Goonter · Nov 01, 2005, 04:03 AM // 04:03

The AI is pretty shallow. Most AIs are, I guess its hard to program. Improvments can be made.

I cant prove it, but I think that once the first thing is in aggro range the AI goes for it. If there is another target before the mob reaches his target he will figure if its a priorty or not. If it is, he will run to it instead. It targets a priorty target based on the weapon your caring. So if you have a healing staff or fire rod, your high priorty.

Call your targets to your hench warriors get attacked first. This helps keeping the mobs from running past the warriors. If your the warrior and your henches are following you...I think your s.o.l . Because once you aggro your henchs will be in range and dont kite very well.

I may be wrong, but thats what Ive picked up in playing and Ive followed these rules with good success.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Why should bugs and battery powered aloe plants be carrying a list of priority targets in their pocket? LOL. Are they on a deck of playing cards with cash prizes for which one of us they get first? It doesn't make sense ot have such an AI for them.

I doubt your experience is inaccurate overall. It is simply insane that every animal encounter has a West Point graduate running their assaults. Against other intelligent species I can understand. I don't against everything out there. Every sowbug is a Naploleon Bonaparte or Alexander the Accursed.

Fitz Rinley

NatalieD · Nov 01, 2005, 04:41 AM // 04:41

The AI is dumb as a box of bricks already. And you're saying that half the enemies should be even stupider?

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2005, 05:16 AM // 05:16

A plant or bug that can pick out of a group of completely alien species who is the 'spell castor for lunch' is not showing any lack of intelliigence. They are showing an unparalleled capacity for observation that is not even available to many of the people driving on our very streets! <wicked grin> They may indeed be cunning, but they should not be able to pick priority targets based on class information for which they should have NO intelligence (defined as essential elements of information). Someone with the ability to study and identify culturally relevant material (Centaurs, Dwarves, Char) should be able to identify spellcasters and operate accordingly in a tactical manner. Animals shouldn't.

Fitz Rinley

Siren · Nov 01, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Who cares? So what if the AI in the game behave the same? It doesn't matter.

How is this even an issue in the first place, anyway? Take a step back and just think about it for a second.

hcl40u · Nov 01, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Use shift+ctrl+space right outside of aggro range(the shaded circle on the radar) to order your henchmen to attack. This ensures that 95% of the time the aggro will be on your warriors. Before I was attacking first and that usually draws aggro to me, my monk.

Kakumei · Nov 01, 2005, 10:16 AM // 10:16

hey guys let's throw a bunch of ridiculous analogies into my post but really they amount to absolutely no meaning

and when i say a bunch i mean like three every sentence

four if i can get away with it

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Some of us grew up with real English rather than this American bastardized drivel created by Hemmingway. He should never have been recognized as having the capacity to write anything above children's workshop material for pre-kindergarten development. Otherwise, Americans might know something about how to read and write and their language textbooks might not have such idiotic terms as 'adverb phrase' instead of the correct 'adverbial phrase' used by those who should know better. Analogies, metaphors, hyperbolies, and references to literary and mythical devices that are a part of the universal unconscious are good language. That audiences have been taught they have no responsibility to be capable of comprehending what their own laguage is comprised of is a crime making them indolent and insolent.

Fitz Rinley

Shaquira · Nov 01, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Still i do notice a difference. Although many species will target the healer not all will do it as feriociously as the avicara do.

All the time when i go to bergen hot springs with hench .. EVERY avicara from far and beyond will JUMP ON alesia like ....... welll they all jump on her and she dies in seconds.

Unless ... she survives those first few seconds.

So with my E/Mo i concentrate on healing her for a few seconds to give the warriors time to scrape off a few avicara so she can survive on her own.

Epinephrine · Nov 01, 2005, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Some of us grew up with real English rather than this American bastardized drivel created by Hemmingway. He should never have been recognized as having the capacity to write anything above children's workshop material for pre-kindergarten development. Otherwise, Americans might know something about how to read and write and their language textbooks might not have such idiotic terms as 'adverb phrase' instead of the correct 'adverbial phrase' used by those who should know better. Analogies, metaphors, hyperbolies, and references to literary and mythical devices that are a part of the universal unconscious are good language. That audiences have been taught they have no responsibility to be capable of comprehending what their own laguage is comprised of is a crime making them indolent and insolent.

Fitz Rinley

Firstly, that's just rude.
Secondly, if you grew up with "real" English you'd spell it bastardised, and if you were the least bit erudite you'd know that hyperbole is of Greek origin and thence through Latin - it is not pluralised in English, and in Latin is hyberbolae. I'm the among the most vocal in promoting proper grammar, but your remarks are churlish and needlessly inflammatory. Better to lead by example than to deride others, you simply come across as an arrogant prat otherwise.

Edit: Oh, by the way, your title is also suspect, it should read "Why are animals tactical genii?" if you truly care about using traditional language.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

I somewhat blame this on Alesia. She seems to arm flutter and run about looking under rocks and rose petals for anything of which she might have a fear. She and Thom, who is still trying to live down charges of cowardice, are my worst agro members at any given time.

Thom frequently runs off by himself to fight something without instruction. I often find myself sneaking up to the edge of agro range to resurrect him while Alesia runs back and forth between us, uncertain what to do.

Stefan and Orion are my most trusted and stalwart members.

One thing that would really assist is if I could organize them to formation. Or if parties could be arranged to formations. Single file patrol, bounding overwatch, arranged front with artilery to the rear. Allow a party commander (or seccond if he is down) to lead/command in tactical situations by clicking on the desired formation. This would require an addition to the icon options however. Something similar to what existed in ToEE but placing classes in specific areas - warriors and pets to tank, others at range.

Fitz Rinley

Fitz Rinley · Nov 01, 2005, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Firstly, that's just rude.
Secondly, if you grew up with "real" English you'd spell it bastardised, and if you were the least bit erudite you'd know that hyperbole is of Greek origin and thence through Latin - it is not pluralised in English, and in Latin is hyberbolae. I'm the among the most vocal in promoting proper grammar, but your remarks are churlish and needlessly inflammatory. Better to lead by example than to deride others, you simply come across as an arrogant prat otherwise.

Edit: Oh, by the way, your title is also suspect, it should read "Why are animals tactical genii?" if you truly care about using traditional language.

I would truly like to use traditional languages. I was raised in English literature in American schools. I am quite aware of the limitations this incurs. I have also studied Koine, Hebrew, Deutsch, Hangulmal, Gaelic, Geilge, Francais, Classical Latin, and Klingon.

I promote communications above grammar and language, and the responsiblity of the audience which has been lost in the liberal ideology that they should have none. Of course this is inflamatory, it means people would actually have to make an effort. How conservative of me? How erudite and prating? How prudish and tyranical can one parapatetic pedagogue become?

Fitz Rinley

Epinephrine · Nov 01, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

I'm not going to bother prettying up my text with multisyllabic synonyms to impress you; I think that the subject of the thread is fine, but attacks on any nationality are uncalled for - even your own. And what do you mean by insolent anyway? Being less versed linguistically has caused them to be overbearing??? It hardly makes sense.

Just ignore the trolls, talk about your subject. And as mentioned, plenty of reasons to target spell casters. Easier to bite, they don't strike with weapons, smell different and so on. After all, warriors would need to oil their armour and weapons, and any creature will learn to associate a painful blow with the one who swung the weapon, while magic is less obviously attributable to anyone. The weapon has both a proximal and temporal link to the pain it causes - immediate, present threat value, while magic is less obvious and would present a challenge to conditioning. Given the choice between the easy meal wiggling his fingers and the one with the sharp weapon I know who I'd pick, even as a bug. Assuming that they can link cause to effect for a spellcaster is ludicrous. Facing a warrior, proximity causes pain, and the weapon is the obvious cause - conditioned fear of swung implements is not a difficult thing to imagine. Since warriors even smell different that's an additional cue. Spellcasters are not as obviously linked to the damage they do, in fact it is as likely to rain fire around a warrior as around an elementalist - the firestorm will happen no matter who you end up attacking. Of course, this is a behaviourist perspective, and with you mentioning Jungian archetypes you might not like that model.

Battle Torn · Nov 01, 2005, 04:59 PM // 16:59

I say!...well thats absoulutely frantapulously groovemungus! what a right pair we all are.... us intelectuals superifiors to these low lifeis who cant speak proper Elglish. I say HOW DARE THEY, who do they think they are. If you cant bloomin type,./,/,/. spell or speak pwoper english then away with you 'Avaunt I say' if you aint got good grammer like what I have got!./..

Im better than you!

Asrial · Nov 01, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Don't be idiots. The OP raises good points and last time I checked, this IS a forum for public discussion.

The only thing I've found rude is people making fun of how they choose to write their posts.

kawaii_bat · Nov 01, 2005, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

hey guys let's throw a bunch of ridiculous analogies into my post but really they amount to absolutely no meaning

and when i say a bunch i mean like three every sentence

four if i can get away with it

As Fitz pointed out 'Analogies' are part of the english language and a way to communicate better our view points and opinions. They *do* have meaning, much more when you add them into a text in which they relate to something you have already said.

For the english language enthusiasts (Yes I know I might have grammar and/or syntax errors/mistakes/misshaps). The english language and *all* languages for that matter is always in constant evolution. Your grand-parents speak in a completely different way than you do and your children will do so as well.

In america
Colour has become color
Grey has become Gray
It's like picking a fight over the pronounciation of the word 'Tomato'.
Some regions just write differently or learn how to write inappropriately.
And who's to say that our way of writing is appropriate as well?
The British? The Americans? Canadians? Australiens?
I say write how you want but please make sure you understand the terms you are using.

If you use the word: 'leer' instead of 'gaze' or 'stare', it means something else entirely.

Jenosavel · Nov 01, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I'd like to add to what someone else has already touched on. It was mentioned that the Avicara are the most ruthless when it comes to prioritizing targets. While some enemies can be convinced to attack non-casters via several methods, the Avicara seem to be too smart for cheap tricks. They will stick to that one target of priority until it goes down, and then they'll repeat the process. On the other end of the spectrum there are enemies like Minotaurs. In my experience, the Minotaurs more often than not will attack the first target they see. However, if that target proves too difficult, doing such things as using evasive stances or running, they'll switch to another nearby target.

Siren · Nov 01, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

So when can this thread got locked? Epinephrine posted a nice explanation why lower beasties target casters, which seems to punch a major hole in Fitz's...whatever Fitz is trying to get at--because, honestly? He makes no suggestion in his original post. He asks a question, nothing more. Before the question, there's irrelevant rhetoric that has zero bearing on the question.

Seems to me this thread is a major waste of space, because the reasoning that the beasties may use when targeting casters:

Big, burly, heavily-armored man with a sword is standing next to a squishy-looking prettyboy waving a wand around.

The target choice is obvious to anyone (or any AI).

pyrohex · Nov 01, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I say that if plants can pop up of the ground and shoot seeds at you at a great enough velocity to hurt and ultimately kill you, they should be smart enough to throw seeds at your monks.

If we wanted everything to be "in character", we should have squishable scorpions, Charr on four legs, plants that just sit there growing, and Avicara singing morning arias as you walk by.

Yes, I'm being a sarcastic, hyperbolizing ass. Maybe I'll think up a good excuse to make this game even easier than it already is later.

Quote:

What kind of perfume is Alesia wearing?

I suggest you contact ANet Support. It's an outrage that some henchman should smell better than my characters.