Curse

Damien · Nov 01, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Dont know if this count, but since english is not my native langue i tried to translate it and, suprise, the word sorcerer got the same result as the word wizard. That means they mean the same thing, but what one encompass and the other dont is up to the individual person. Personally i like the think of the wizard as a bit more organised than the sorcerer, but if you look at the D&D, when you have gotte used to it the names never really let you go, you can find wizard practising unorganised nature magick and sorcerer being in cabals.

BTW on topic. Think some sort of unarmed fighter would be fun but how they are going to balance the damage without a weapon isnt somethign i bother to think about now

Fitz Rinley · Nov 02, 2005, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

This new profession (Dualist) could alter the balance in Guild Wars but it would in my view be a good addition (or something of a similar kind to it). My idea....

I certainly would sign for the creation of such a class. However, I could see the Cestus or some equivalent as a weapon. Perhaps also, dual punching blades would be a creative design using the Tonfa as base, the right long side forward and left long side back.

Fitz Rinley

Fitz Rinley · Nov 02, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Damien,

Sorceror comes from French and originates in ideas from Zoroastrianism. It concerns 'Servants of the Lie.' This is dependent on the exact nature of the charges against the sorceror. Often it means practicing magic/miracles that are not authorized through proper religious authority. It also means charlatanry and divination as a form of scamming.

Wizardry engenders a meaning of sicentific approach. It has been said to mean 'one that holds high knowledge.' More effectively it traces back to one that is a part of the greater turning of events in cyclic history. The wizard is a part of the archtype that reinvests time and space with the ability to continue to exist by being a part of the the eternal comprehension of time and space.

Fitz Rinley

NatalieD · Nov 02, 2005, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdis

You are correct about the "word" being used long before D&D. The point I was trying to make is that the "word" sorcerer was just that, only a word. The brains at D&D were the ones who did all the work. Meaning they created the backgrounds, personalities, skill sets, attribute points, and overall existence of what a Sorcerer is. Anyone can dream up a word for, in this case, a spell caster. In my opinion it was D&D who created this character, and it is their guidelines that we should be following, if it were to be incorporated into the game.

That's just not true. All the D&D people did was come up with a definition of "sorcerer" for D&D. It does not apply to anything other than D&D.

Just to pick an example, take a look at the novel Jhereg, by Steven Brust, and the many other books of that series. They present a well-fleshed-out fantasy setting with sorcerers, called by that name, who don't resemble D&D's sorcerers at all. (Except, of course, in that both use magic of some sort.) And Jhereg was published in 1987, thirteen years before sorcerers existed in D&D.

Quote:

And yes GW is leading the way by not following there guidelines...example: In D&D Rangers not only fight with bows but are also specialized in swordsmanship, though not as inept as a warrior by any means. Yes in this game they can use a sword but have the same weapon penalty as if they were an Elementalist....Another example, Mages can also use daggers, whatever happened to daggers??

GW is not "leading the way" by not adhering to D&D's rules. People have been doing that, well, ever since D&D was published.

Quote:

All I’m trying to say is that there were certain "rules" set along time ago, and I’ve always been in favor of breaking rules...lol. But if GW is to ever make a Sorcerer, it would be in their best interest to follow those rules.

The rules you keep talking about were never intended for anything except D&D. And five years ago is hardly a long time, if you're talking about D&D's sorcerers.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 02, 2005, 01:53 AM // 01:53

If we are going to look at the origins of these ideas we would have to go back to records in Egypt, Sumeria, Ur, Tibet, Nineveh, etc. The oldest known text by Nin-me-Sin, an Akkadian Princess and Priestess, may even be the first to deal with the down throwing of wicked priests that were using powers without the Me (sacred authority of heaven).

Modern concepts are heavily influenced by H.P. Lovecraft whose work is compiled into the fictional Necronomicon used by some as a religious work. He wrote horror in the late 1800's if your not familiar with him. If you are I appologise for my presumption.

Friends of mine are under the impression that I perceive GW under the scope of D&D, which I departed from for many years to play other games such as Traveller, Harn, Vampire, and Mage. I really do not find the D&D system to be all that admirable in comparison to White Wolf.

The idea of sorceror is ancient. It is defined in one tract I have, attributed to Prophet Zaotar Zarathushtra from 1750 BCE according to linguistic dating, as someone that brings the lie. While witches are defined as those who summon spiders and unnatural cold.

I don't think in an international setting that there are any rules set a long time ago (past few years) by the Wizards of the Coast think tank which apply to something which in form is as old as written history and oral tradition in every culture our species has ever created.

Fitz Rinley

Symeon · Nov 02, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Firstly

A note: You people are talking about the origins of the word sorcerer in civilization.

A note: This topic is about ideas for new professions.

Secondly

Quote:

This new profession (Dualist)

Thanks Fitz for providing the name I was trying to think of

The name Dualist fits the character class well.

Quote:

I could see the Cestus or some equivalent as a weapon. Perhaps also, dual punching blades would be a creative design using the Tonfa as base, the right long side forward and left long side back.

I think these are also good ideas.
Here is a list of weapon possibilites I have brought together in my head:

1.Pole/Sticks
2.Dual punching blades.
3.Dual mini-scythes

4.Whip

5.I can't think of a name...like dual mini-hammers, but they have smaller hammer-heads...well.
6.Metal chain.
7.Metal chain and whip

Well I know some of these are 'unrealistic' but I reckon they are pretty good ideas.

Here is my list for armour also:

1.Ninja stylie.
2.Chinese warrior style.
3.Martial arts kit.
4.Baggy clothes, lots of padding, that sought of thing.
5.Chainmail. It would be like the crusaders, covered in cloth (obviously not embroidered with crosses, but perhaps with some other symbol of meaning).

Over to you lads.
And could everyone please return to the topic and drop this sorcerer word history crap...
I mean it!

Flaxx · Nov 02, 2005, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Good post here, im all about new classes. check out my thread on a class idea of mine, its called "trigger happy".
I hope you like it, you will be the first.

Valdis · Nov 04, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Firstly

A note: You people are talking about the origins of the word sorcerer in civilization.

A note: This topic is about ideas for new professions.

Sadly no matter what you may come up with it will never be a "new" profession...it will just be a mixture of old professions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Over to you lads.
And could everyone please return to the topic and drop this sorcerer word history crap...
I mean it!

Check your attitude at the door, who died and gave you the right to tell people what to do???

Valdis · Nov 04, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

I can't think of a name...like dual mini-hammers, but they have smaller hammer-heads...well.

Mallets maybe??

Symeon · Nov 04, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Mallets! Thanks

And ya I know most new profession ideas are gonna be mixes of old ones but that's why we talk about it, to try and make a better and better idea that is different to the other ones.

Symeon · Nov 04, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

And this thread kinda died, cos there are new threads on the same topic.

Valdis · Nov 04, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I agree

free · Nov 05, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

New Profession/Class Idea....

Half Giant (slightly bigger/muscular than warriors)

Attack type:
- Hand to hand combat

Weapons:
- Gauntlets/special gloves
- gauntlets with blades for some bleeding/slash skills
- steel/metallic gauntlets for knock downs

Skills:
- bleeding/slashing (like warrior)
- knock downs (like warrior, dolyaks and earth ele)
- throws (not sure if it's possible but would be interesting to see... imagine seeing enemies being thrown when there are mobs running at you)
- Skin alteration (skin can harden and possibly turn into different materials this will have increase armor but will slow him down. It can also have increase defense against elements)
- War cries (this can assist the party or prevent enemy from attacking... dizziness, disoriented)

Attributes:
Strength (knock downs and throws)
Modification (skin alteration)
War cries
Tactics

Advantages:
- strong
- good defense against elements due to skin alterations
- gauntlets can increase dmg
- can aid party with war cries/shouts
- can stun enemies with war cries/shouts
- also uses adrenalin

Disadvantages:
- slow attack speed
- slow casting skills
- armor not as strong as worrior due to the skin alteration (increases armor for a peroid of time)
- cannot hold a weapon
- low energy storage

Ok there... that's my input. I know that people are probably gonna bash this idea. But ah well.... it was actually fun thinking about a new class. I also know that there are similarities between a half giant and the warriors but we need more variety when it comes to tanks. Because half giants can still look like humans.... Anet can incorporate them to fit the story.

comments (good and bad) is appreciated.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 05, 2005, 02:46 AM // 02:46

That's very creative. I like the idea. I would not use the term Half-giant, on the off chance that there are any possible legal complications with WotC. A slightly larger skin and warrior base could be used and call it the Brawler, Pugilist, Etc.

I would work this with a comparable dualist, or speed style combatant. In the same way that the Mesmer is a fast caster a dualist would be able to:

1) Function at increased response speed,
2) Have lower base AC, but a couple of good fast tactical Stances.
3) Attack/Skill areas: Feints (tactics), Parries (Weapon based), Thrusts (Str).
4) Slightly faster regen rate in energy than typical fighter.

This would give the Cestus wielding Pugilist you describe as an equal to the slower magical power house of the Elementalist or Necromancer. The Warrior would be in the middle as seems to be the Monk and Ranger. Then the Dualist would be at the faster combat end just as the Mesmer is at the faster magical end.

Fitz Rinley

Valdis · Nov 05, 2005, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Both are very good ideas IMO

Fitz Rinley · Nov 05, 2005, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Thank you Valdis. He's good. I just happened to be standing there. <Grin>

Fitz Rinley

Monseir · Nov 05, 2005, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Combining classes! N/W could be Shadow Master. M/R or R/W could be Rogue.
R/W or W/R could be ninja. Mo/W or W/mo could be Divine Warrior. N/M could be Deathly Illusionist. E/MO could be Elemental Healer. E/W could be Elemental Warrior. etc. etc.

Fitz Rinley · Nov 06, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Monseir,

With all do respect. Any magic using class where the warrior is primary will never be of value. The costs are too high. The warrior has to focus on warrior based attribues and free areas. If lucky and the only survivor, the warrior can res the healer who can re-establish the party before the next wave arrives. After 20 levels and discussions in these forums I have learned the ambience of a secondary class is an illusion to make one feel better, not a reality of any merrit. Our Divine Warriors are only people that got to play deacon for a semester in Middle School.

Fitz Rinley

Symeon · Nov 06, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Look at me. I'm a W/E, using a shocking chaos axe and glimmering mark. Blinding FTW. Only other 10-energy skill I use is Conjure Lightning sometimes.
Rest are adrenaline attacks or 5-energy stances. I survive.