Curse

pyrohex · Oct 08, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

1v1 proves little about your ability - what happens when you come across the perfect counter to your build, or vice versa?

As nice as it would be for PuGs to ignore ranking, it's not going to happen as long as /rank exists. Why retrograde and throw away that hammer when you want the nail firmly in place? Normally, ranked players will be more skilled than unranked, generally they will be greater assets to your party. There are exceptions to each case, of course, but it holds true for the general population. And the general population is what you deal with when you go PuGing in Tombs. Excellent, unranked players running around Tombs are hardly common.

As much as I dislike the idea of tarring a large group of people with a single stroke, rank is a useful tool. It's a search parameter, much like you would use when Googling. Why bother searching all entries when you're almost guaranteed a hit from a more specified search? Granted, you will miss some excellent hits, but who says its worth the time?

Navaros · Oct 08, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I agree that 1vs1 PVP for fame is not an ideal solution. In my view it is simply the best available solution to take away the frustration of unranked players who can't get into good parties due to their lack of rank.

Keep in mind that the devs could balance 1vs1 PVP for fame so that you don't get 1 fame for each win. They could still make it equivalent to the difficulty in getting fame in Tombs. Ie: To earn 1 fame in 1vs1 PVP, you must beat 10 others players in a row in 1vs1 combat. Maybe they could throw in NPC's, traps and things like that to balance it out so that it's not just a matter of two players pounding on each other directly until one drops.

unienaule · Oct 08, 2005, 10:40 PM // 22:40

But as previously mentioned, 1v1 is about as similar to 8v8 as random 4v4 is. 1v1 teaches very little about team play. It would only introduce a new noob class: "People who got their fame in 1v1 and don't even know what a tombs map looks like, who join your group in tombs."

Navaros · Oct 08, 2005, 10:54 PM // 22:54

So then what do you guys suggest be done about the original poster's point that unranked players only get crap groups? Because that is generally true and I agree with OP that casual players are not ever gonna play Guild Wars in Tombs for that exact reason. Guild Wars IMO already has mostly become a game where only hardcore players even bother trying to PVP in Tombs.

Is that just "the nature of the beast", and nothing should be done about it?

Rey Lentless · Oct 08, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

PVP in any game is competitive, the casual player isn't going to be as successful. That's any game.

My suggestion (and he's already alluded to "oh, I didn't mean me.. I meant the other noobs have a problem"), he start his own groups, make sure they're built adequately to beat iway, ask all of his probing questions that identifies skill that doesn't require an emote, and win in the tombs.. at least enough to gain fame at a moderate rate. He'll develop a friend list, maybe even.. join a pvp guild, and he'll be in this thread in weeks asking for emotes for the inbetween ranks.

Anyone new to the tombs that wants to, can become ranked. And not just the people who started out when everyone wasn't ranked.

If he can't design and organize a team that can beat iway a few times each run.. then he shouldn't be gaining fame anyway.

Zorlag · Oct 09, 2005, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Maybe Anet should add emote for faction if they are going to keep rank as Tombs "reward". I've played lots of GvG and Comp/Team Arena (I have 80k+ faction) but just can't get Tombs group at all. Everyone and their mother wants to see your rank.

Guizzy · Oct 09, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyrohex

1v1 proves little about your ability - what happens when you come across the perfect counter to your build, or vice versa?

Indeed; 1vs1 wouldn't be a good idea unless ArenaNet does a massive balancing.

Or else; Air Eles would kill anything without Protective Magic.

Warriors would never even have a chance to swing at a Water Ele.

Prot/Healing monks would never even have a chance at anything with self-heals.

Mesmers would either kill any warrior or kill any caster.

Necros would never have corpses to use for their spells.

The only class which could 1vs1 PvP almost normally would be the Ranger. And then, I'm pretty sure there's something I don't know about them that makes me wrong on that.

Jigs · Oct 09, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by conker

People that cant get to rank 3 in one day are just Crap-reason why ranked groups dont take non rank3s like ne more..

get to rank 3 in one day??? like how many hours of playing? it'll take about 15-30 mins (or even more) for a non ranked player to get into a group. the bigger problem facing here is for the new players. they just bought the game and want to play just PvP. But when they tried to play, almost no one is going to pick them up bcoz they don't have ranks. how in the hell they could gain ranks and good experience of gameplay if no one will pick them or join them.

tomcruisejr · Oct 09, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

So then what do you guys suggest be done about the original poster's point that unranked players only get crap groups? Because that is generally true and I agree with OP that casual players are not ever gonna play Guild Wars in Tombs for that exact reason. Guild Wars IMO already has mostly become a game where only hardcore players even bother trying to PVP in Tombs.

Is that just "the nature of the beast", and nothing should be done about it?

well GuildWars is designed to be a casual friendly game. Some/Hardcore PVPers are just ruining it. :P

i also agree to a poster here that the pinnacle of GW is GvG. in tombs, you will just face some new guilds wanting to have some fun, pug groups, or people desperately wanting to have rank so they can have the golden emote.

If you want skilled pvp, try GvG.

maybe the concept/idea behind the tombs is whether or not we can farm at UW, :P. say if america doesnt have the favor, america will send a team of 8 skilled pvpers to take over the HoH so UW farming will be back to business. and they can get the emotes so other pvers will recognize their heroes.

maybe the tombs was meant to bridge the gap between pvp and pve. :P

Timelessblur · Oct 10, 2005, 12:44 AM // 00:44

A while ago I would say people go for HoH for UW and I would say I would love to help out to get Aericra Favor but now I have not been to ToA for a long time. I pretty much only really PvP any more and I dont care what group I play with.

As for rank it is massivily over rated. I will say I struggles quite a bit to get rank 3 back in July. Now I plyaing time as cut down to less than 1/4 it was back then and I gain fame at a much faster rate. Mind you I am playing with my guild so getting 40 fame in a run is not uncommon any more. Heck in under 1 month I alreayd earned more than 175 more fame after hit rank 3 it just became easier to get in good groups.

That being said I think it massivly over rated. I love being rank 3+ because I think have the Deer head just looks cool. I want the wolf because I think it looks cooler. Not so sure about the tiger. personally I think the wolf looks better.

CAT · Oct 10, 2005, 01:15 PM // 13:15

I really didnt read the whole thread, a rank 2 boycotting rank 3+ groups really isnt an issue for me.

Medion · Oct 10, 2005, 05:29 PM // 17:29

Me, as a 100% ranger would say that rangers are probably the best in PvP, but what u shouldn`t forget is:

Pacifism (really irritating I think)

Any hex (we rangers have troll unguent ofcourse, but don`t overestimate that healing ;0)

But i guess we are able to defeat elementalists and warriors very easily.

About the rank 3+, I think ppl with rank 3+ should play a little more often with non-ranks and the other low ranked.

Yichi · Oct 10, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

I just started getting into tombs and pvp extensively. Currently i havent found earning fame that difficult as i see people complaining it is, granted i dont have that much and dont have an emote to show how 1337 i am, but its kind of simple in one aspect. Find people that have a similar goal and gameplan to yours. Coordinate your builds, find what skills benefit each other towards the goal, coordinate and go in with a gameplan ie. ok we attack chat xx/xx first. if none of those attack yy/yy next. have a plan and you can still have some success with a pug.

also if voice communications is what youre looking for and dont have TS or Vent, you can always use yahoo messenger, AOL Im, etc.... I have been in many groups that we used yahoo voice chat and we had no problem coordinating our attacks and actually did quite well in that group. (didnt win halls, but made it twice and this was all with a R2 or less PUG)

Arrow-bow · Oct 10, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

im thinkign too why rank tell so much? im seening very much of very good players at my guild and they didint got even fame 10, really arenanet must but some 1 vs 1 thing too see how skilfull are the players really expesially those players who has no fame or rank,because rank and fame didint tell so much,exspesially the experience.

unlike me i got only fame 10 and im good player, but mostely im testing diffrent builds for competition arenas.

dansamy · Oct 15, 2005, 05:23 AM // 05:23

Rank simply shows the amount of time you have spent playing in Tombs. You generally can't manage to get to r3 without having experienced most of the maps along the way to Hall and at least seen the Hall a couple of times. This just tells someone making a group that you aren't totally lacking in experience. However, good players that listen well and coordinate often rock r6+ groups that all think their idea is the only idea.

Sunman222 · Oct 15, 2005, 05:42 AM // 05:42

I first check friends list and vent servers before I actually fish for players in game. I rarely ever take anyone from in game because I don't know them. I network through the people on my team to get whatever people we need to finish the group. This way, I don't even look at rank, as long as I fill the team with competent players that people know.

If all else fails, I look for rank 6+ because they have to have some sort of skill and experience in tombs to have that much fame. They usually will play any skill bar you give them because they know how to play at that point. I don't want to play with people who haven't been to tombs enough. Too many different maps with different strategies and its unfair to the other players to waste time and try to teach people each map. Unfortunately in tombs, one player, one mistake, can cost you a win.

I like running with my guild, which only consisted of one rank6 for the longest time and we'd get to HoH easily.

Don't blame the rank system if you can't find a group because you don't know that many people. It does WEED out the bad players. Good players will always find a group regardless of rank

Legendary Battousai · Oct 15, 2005, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunman222

Good players will always find a group regardless of rank

bullshit

i was just experimenting with my other account that i just used for muling and tried to find a group in tombs. didnt happen unless I wanted to play iway and thats pointless.

kuklovod · Nov 01, 2005, 09:00 AM // 09:00

What ANet really has to do (and what would solve the problem) is :

1. remove the silly lvl 20 tag on top of the pvp player's head. I mean, wtf it is there for? Put total faction earned there instead. In combination with fame rank, it would work as experience filter.
2. ADD A WAY TO SEE PERSON'S SKILLBAR if he does apply for an invitation into your group. At least something like ctrl-click on skillbar and attribute screen. Better yet, just show attribute allocation/skillbar to the group leader. Without this, there is *no way* a good group will ever take the risk of inviting an unranked player. Simply because 90% of them are not competent, and you can't always spend 15 minutes interviewing before the game.

If you take a r6 prot monk, you can be sure you won't have to ask whether he has aegis (or superior prot rune, or staff of ench, etc). If you take an r0 prot monk, you will have to go through every item that pvp character has (and you will have to trust him since you have no way to check and he might very well be lying to stay in your group), and in the end, you still might get a piss poor performance. Who would take the risk?

Tysac Vanguard · Nov 01, 2005, 09:23 AM // 09:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

Rank simply shows the amount of time you have spent playing in Tombs. You generally can't manage to get to r3 without having experienced most of the maps along the way to Hall and at least seen the Hall a couple of times. This just tells someone making a group that you aren't totally lacking in experience. However, good players that listen well and coordinate often rock r6+ groups that all think their idea is the only idea.

I agree...I've been in a high ranked group before...it as an ego contest and it didn't go well at all.

Although I agree that Rank shows the ammont of time you spend...it also shows that you can read forums and spell words like 'IWAY' or 'Emo' ...or whatever the flavour of the month is.

Xenrath · Nov 01, 2005, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Stuck up egotists who can't handle a loss, I wager a good portion are. It's a self perpetuating system and will only get worse over time. Why? Simple logic.

Need rank to get into a group, in order to get rank. That's just from my limited experience though I'm sure I'm not the only one who ended up feeling it was a waste of time trying and left rather disgusted at how far too seriously people were taking things. You start off with 0 rank, and can't get into a group to start with and hence can't get any more rank anyway.

As for "form your own group" tried that too, it consisted of getting some people into the group (half of them guildmates at the time) and the random people all joining for a little while then leaving for whatever reason. End result, group isn't really enough in numbers to take part anyway... would hate to think what it's like for people who have the game and want to take part in things like this, and don't have a guild or not enough active members at once etc.